zclubhouse Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I have been looking around quite a bit recently for reliable information on what oil products are the best to use. I have been talking recently to an ex-chrysler engine engineer about my car and he suggests that I switch every oil in my car (engine, trans and diff) to full synthetic in interest of gaining power through reduced friction. I am currently running Valvoline VR-1 straight 50wt in the motor (10.5comp L28, 5 speed with a sport clutch and standard ratios, and a 3.90 LSD R200) and the rest of the components are filled with standard petroleum products and weights as outlined in my shop repair manual. This car is not a daily driver, its a purpose built auto-x machine. I have been hearing lots of info about newer racing synthetics that are multigrade 0W-50 but I am skeptical that alot of the info available is simply uninformed bench racing and old wives tales. So the question remains, should I leave everything the way it is, change just one component or do everything? Change what and why? I have heard things about synthetic possibly ruining the LSD discs in my R200. What is myth and what is fact? Looking for any input you wiser folks can tell me, I am very new to performance car building. And advice or links would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 50W!?!?!!! WHAT? If you read the FSM, they call for straight 30W motor oil. Valvoline VR-1 30W or 10w-30 would be much more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLamberson Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Mobile 1 fully synthetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Mobil 1 w/ 1/4 bottle GM EOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZZeee Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I would not run 50wt in WI in the winter time. It's way too thick especially in cold climates. If you really want 50wt at full running temp then use Castrol 10w50 synthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 50W!?!?!!! WHAT? If you read the FSM, they call for straight 30W motor oil. Valvoline VR-1 30W or 10w-30 would be much more appropriate. I used the FSM as a reference point. 50wt because I want good protection on a motor that gets beat on. The motor is not run or built under factory specs so I choose 50wt. If you think that 30wt is better, why should I run it and why would 50wt be the wrong choice for my application? I am open to any advice on this matter, but I want to make an informed decision. Mobile 1 fully synthetic What weight? Why not a "race" oil synthetic like redline? I know mobil makes a great product, but would I need all the detergents if I am changing my oil every year after less than 1000 miles of driving? I would not run 50wt in WI in the winter time. It's way too thick especially in cold climates. If you really want 50wt at full running temp then use Castrol 10w50 synthetic. Haha. The car is in full winterized storage right now. I only drive the car in the summer anyways (generally 75 degrees of higher.) I am gathering that you guys consider 50wt to be a poor choice of oil. I am running straight weight because I don't ever start the car when it is super cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZZeee Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 No, 50wt is not a bad vicousity. There are plenty of racers who run the stuff. I didn't know you only drive the car in the summer. Still, if it were me, I'd consider installing an oil heater for use on chilly days. But I'm anal-retentive. I knew a guy in high school (very long time ago) who spun a bearing on a chilly day (probably about 40-50 degrees) by not allowing the engine to warm up before he punched the throttle. He was using straight 50wt non-synthetic. I used the FSM as a reference point. 50wt because I want good protection on a motor that gets beat on. The motor is not run or built under factory specs so I choose 50wt. If you think that 30wt is better, why should I run it and why would 50wt be the wrong choice for my application? I am open to any advice on this matter, but I want to make an informed decision. What weight? Why not a "race" oil synthetic like redline? I know mobil makes a great product, but would I need all the detergents if I am changing my oil every year after less than 1000 miles of driving? Haha. The car is in full winterized storage right now. I only drive the car in the summer anyways (generally 75 degrees of higher.) I am gathering that you guys consider 50wt to be a poor choice of oil. I am running straight weight because I don't ever start the car when it is super cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 No, 50wt is not a bad vicousity. There are plenty of racers who run the stuff. I didn't know you only drive the car in the summer. Still, if it were me, I'd consider installing an oil heater for use on chilly days. But I'm anal-retentive. I knew a guy in high school (very long time ago) who spun a bearing on a chilly day (probably about 40-50 degrees) by not allowing the engine to warm up before he punched the throttle. He was using straight 50wt non-synthetic. Ok. Thanks for the advice. I have an oil temp gauge installed and never even move the car until I am at operating range. Ive spent too much money on this car to implode it with impatience. I never drive the car on chilly days anyways. Do you think that a different weight oil (lighter or multigrade) would be better for my application? I was thinking about a multigrade ?-50W so I would build oil pressure faster on "cold" starts. Or should I just switch to a straight 30wt race synthetic because i do not need the full protection of a heavy weight oil? Is the idea of synthetic oil's reduced friction really true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Along time ago my uncle and I got into a tiff on oil. The main thing I pull from that was why I run syn today, the temp at which the oil bakes at and its tearing properties. So much better than conventional it should scare you to run conventionals. This means you don't have to run such heavy weights and get far better engine response. At one time someone told me that the heavy weights due cause some ware and tare due to extra work the engine is doing in order to more that thick of liquid. You should not use typical syn while breaking in your engine, why, greatly reduced ware and tare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Trends in oil selection for racing or heavy duty use have moved away from high viscocity. Unless there's a very specific need, 50wt is not ideal and using oil viscocity to see a high pressure reading on the gauge is a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Trends in oil selection for racing or heavy duty use have moved away from high viscocity. Unless there's a very specific need, 50wt is not ideal and using oil viscocity to see a high pressure reading on the gauge is a mistake. Since 50wt is not ideal, should I just stick with the straight 30w synthetic or should I run a multigrade oil? Which oil would be the best? I am not worried about using a oil merely to get a good reading on my gauge, I had 10w-30 in the car for a while and still had at least 10lbs of oil pressure for every 1000rpm. Thanks for the advice. One more question, what do you recommend for the transmission and differential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I used to use amesoil but not anymore, I would loose it all when driving because of the smaller molecules. Didn't smoke or or leak, but it was still getting past the rings. Moble one seemed to work much better i'm sticking with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I used Kendall GT straight 50w and it wasn't even cold out and the motor wouldn't rev past 4000rpm from it being so thick. I like it though because it has the zinc in it for solid lifters. Switched to regular synthetic 10W-30 because hell, I didn't make this motor to last over 100,000 miles. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 The best reference: http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/English_Oil_Guide.pdf Any oil that meets the current API SM standard will work well. I'm partial to Mobil 1 or Chevron Delo 400. I will run Delo in the older street cars I've owned (240Z, Continental, Sedanette, Nova, Falcon, etc.) I run Mobil 1 in my work truck (lots of towing) and cars I run on a road race track (240Z, 350Z, MR2, 325). For transmission oil I use a 50/50 mix of Chevron Delo ESI gear oil in 80/90 and Delo 10W-30 engine oil on older street cars. For differential oil in older street cars I use Chevron Delo ESI 85/140. For track cars I use what the manufacturer recommends in the transmission and for the diff I use an industrial fully synthetic gear oil that meets ISO220/AGMA 5EP standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 I used Kendall GT straight 50w and it wasn't even cold out and the motor wouldn't rev past 4000rpm from it being so thick. I like it though because it has the zinc in it for solid lifters. Switched to regular synthetic 10W-30 because hell, I didn't make this motor to last over 100,000 miles. >_> Thats strange that it wouldn't rev past 4k. My motor hits 7k without a hiccup with the 50wt in it. Didn't make it to last 100,000 eh? haha My poor z will be floating around this planet as trash before I ever put 100k on the motor thats in it! The best reference: http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/English_Oil_Guide.pdf Any oil that meets the current API SM standard will work well. I'm partial to Mobil 1 or Chevron Delo 400. I will run Delo in the older street cars I've owned (240Z, Continental, Sedanette, Nova, Falcon, etc.) I run Mobil 1 in my work truck (lots of towing) and cars I run on a road race track (240Z, 350Z, MR2, 325). For transmission oil I use a 50/50 mix of Chevron Delo ESI gear oil in 80/90 and Delo 10W-30 engine oil on older street cars. For differential oil in older street cars I use Chevron Delo ESI 85/140. For track cars I use what the manufacturer recommends in the transmission and for the diff I use an industrial fully synthetic gear oil that meets ISO220/AGMA 5EP standards. Good link John. Thanks alot for the info, that was exactly what I was looking for. Do you have any examples of an industrial full synthetic? Not sure I understand the standards as applied to off the shelf oil that I can think of. I will see if I can get the specs off a few gear oils and see if they meet that requirement. For the track car's transmission do you use a synthetic product or just normal oil that matches with the factory specs? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That was with the motor sitting at the middle of the gauge for water temperature after I was driving for 20 minutes or so. I don't know what the oil temperature was like but as soon as I drove it the next day rather than at night so it was warmer, the problem went away. I didn't want it to reoccur so I gave it to my dad. He uses it in all the race motors he builds so I guess they run hot enough. I think the problem is that the oil pump shares its shaft with the dizzy so if you put a load on the pump, the ignition falls behind too. I also was worried about blowing galley plugs since I never threaded and capped them as the books say to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 That was with the motor sitting at the middle of the gauge for water temperature after I was driving for 20 minutes or so. I don't know what the oil temperature was like but as soon as I drove it the next day rather than at night so it was warmer, the problem went away. I didn't want it to reoccur so I gave it to my dad. He uses it in all the race motors he builds so I guess they run hot enough. I think the problem is that the oil pump shares its shaft with the dizzy so if you put a load on the pump, the ignition falls behind too. I also was worried about blowing galley plugs since I never threaded and capped them as the books say to do. Thats scary. The old zr-1 C4 corvettes had a safety switch that would not let the driver go past 1/4 throttle until proper operating oil temp is reached. It takes longer than people think, my water temp is normal way before the oil gets there. Im anal about it anyways, I wont hardly move the car till everything is running the way it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Do you have any examples of an industrial full synthetic? Not sure I understand the standards as applied to off the shelf oil that I can think of. I will see if I can get the specs off a few gear oils and see if they meet that requirement. For the track car's transmission do you use a synthetic product or just normal oil that matches with the factory specs? Your car is basically a street car so what I use in the diff on my track car is not appropriate. Go with what I recommend for a street car. For the transmission, again your car is a street car so go with what I recommend above. I never run synthetic oil in a Nissan transmission because its often too slippery for the synchros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zclubhouse Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Your car is basically a street car so what I use in the diff on my track car is not appropriate. Go with what I recommend for a street car. For the transmission, again your car is a street car so go with what I recommend above. I never run synthetic oil in a Nissan transmission because its often too slippery for the synchros. In my dreams its a race car, does that count?! Thanks again for the help. I think I am going to go with a 30wt mobil 1 or redline synthetic non race oil for the motor, keep the tranny the way it is (its a fresh flush and fill) and go for a redline or delo synthetic 85/140 in the rear because Im sure that will hold up for autocross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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