Hydraulic Liftters

[DuoWing]

Ok with the cold weather...some really cold weather, lifter tick is really apparent on startup on cold days.

 

I have an 83' 280ZXT with the P90a and I've confirmed it does have the hydraulic lifters. Anyway I've done a search and found the threads about how to pull the hydraulic lifters and manually clean them which seems fairly easy so come spring when I can drive my Z31 again I'll put my 280ZX aside and do the lifter cleaning.

 

I was mainly wondering though, has anyone found a replacement for these things? I know that Nissan doesn't carry or even make the Hydraulic lifters anymore, but I was wondering if anyone has any ideas if maybe there are other lifters very similar that would work, or even possibly lifters from a Z31?

 

Also what do you guys think. Should I try and stick with the Hydraulic lifters or would I be better off going with the solid and trying to find a P90?

[woldson]

Convert to soild lifters.

Big Phil did a viedo on this, the only hard part is finding the timeserts part number.

Search timeserts.

[z-ya]

The lifters are NLA. I've hear of people cleaning them, and then they never worked again.

 

If you can live with a little clacking every so often on cold mornings, I would leave them alone. Or convert to solid.

 

Pete

[Tony D]

If you have click on cold startup days that goes away, you are using the wrong weight oil for the temperature.

 

If it is getting cold, you should be using a 10W or 5W30 oil.

 

People put these ungawdly heavy weight oils into cars thinking it protects their bearings but that's the direct opposite effect it has, as during startup because it's so viscous and thick the pumping effort to get it circulating through all the components of the engine is phenomenal, and stuff simply runs dry till the molasses gets pumped up to properly lubricate it.

[woldson]

Bit of a ole wives tale, good on "loose" engines. (old)

[DuoWing]

For oil I've always used 10w-30 in the car year around. I could see possibly going to a 5w-30 for the colder winter months, but for the most part I've had no problem with 10w-30. Is this a bad weight to use?

 

Really it's at most maybe 30 seconds and this was on a really cold day where the temps were at about 0 degrees possibly below 0*F and they were showing -30 with windchill. Most other times it's a second or two at most. Although that's not a bad idea for converting to solid lifters. At least may be cheaper or at least easier/quicker than having to locate a solid lifter P90 head then swap it when I know the P90a is perfectly fine.

[jkh280zx]

DW,

As noted above, the inserts can be obtained from Timesert via www.timesert.com

The part number is 18153 (M18X1.5x18.3INSERT).

 

TIME-SERT

1 800 423-4070

1 775 829-1026

 

The solid lifters that went into my 83 zxt (p90a head) were obtained from a 79 p90 head. James suggested to convert during the engine rebuild because of the lack of availability of the hydraulic lifters (as you noted) and better performance with the solid lifters. All is well; adjustment is scheduled every 30K miles. I hope that timing is right.

 

john

[DuoWing]

I must be having trouble or something. I know before I found the guide to convert to the solid lifters just by searching Hydraulic Lifter Ticking or Tick or something along those lines and I can't seem to find it now. Can any of you direct me to it? From what I recall is that you also need to change the cam as well.

 

I found a thread over on zcar via a link here on HybridZ. Perhaps that's why I couldn't find the conversion, but man the conversion sounds super easy to do. Maybe I'll just gather up the parts and just focus on doing a straight conversion. I'm planning to pull the motor from my ZXT and swawp it into an S30 over this summer, so I'll have some down time where I can drive my Z31 while I do the motor swap and this sounds like it can be done quite quickly

 

As for the solid lifters themselves it's still something I'm learning, but can you guys point me in the direction of a thread or some info of what cam is good to use and where to get the lifters? Can you purchase new lifters relatively cheap?

[woldson]

If you are going to stay with stock, finding a p79 lifters and cam should be quite easy and cheap.

Search timesert and watch big phils viedo.

[DuoWing]

One other thing I've been wondering is, I'm trying to figure out if it's lifter tick that I have and hopefully not worse? I'm assuming it's lifter tick simply because it only lasts for a few seconds at most. I'm having a hard time telling lifter tick and rod knock apart. I'm trying to search videos on youtube, but it seems like in some instances the lifter tick sounds the same as rod knock, etc.

 

Watched Big Phil's video on the solid conversion. Conversion looks really simple. Probably would take way less time anyway than trying to pull and clean the hydraulic lifters.

[tech9]

I've seen that you need to use a "solid" cam once you switch, but I'm not sure. I have an extra head I would like to convert to solid also.

[woldson]

I've seen that you need to use a "solid" cam once you switch, but I'm not sure. I have an extra head I would like to convert to solid also.

 

Yes! The roll up is different, and form what I have read, the turbo cam will be eaten alive. The flow numbers are not all that different. Unless you are tying to squezze ever last drop.

[josh817]

Follow the steps I did and watch Big-Phils video for a demonstration:

 

"I called up Timeserts, $27 and a day later (they have a distributor here in the DFW area) I had them!

 

First thing is first though! If you have old solid lifters like I do, the lock nut is on there REALLY tight, break them loose first. Save yourself from that problem because if you don't break them loose and you torque the lifter in, they'll probably loosen the entire lifter from the head and you have to go do it over again...

 

-Take them ALL apart and clean them of any old yucky stuff.

-Assemble them and screw the adjuster head thing all the way down.

-Screw the timesert onto the lifter WITHOUT lock tight, make sure they are screwed ALL the way onto the lifter so the lifter doesn't turn when you torque them down.

-WITH lock tight (I used red but I think the red is a bit much for this), go around the outside threads of the timesert, screw into head and torque to 30lb.

 

Not to gun him down but Steveosupremeo said he filled in the oil holes, I don't think this is necessary if your essentially corking up the hole anyways. Also when you apply your locktight, make sure its at the top of the threads and use just a drop. You don't want the locktight to dribble down into that oil hole and clog up the oil galley or something!"

 

Should help. :]

[tech9]

Where is a source for the lifters? Are the lifters the same for all heads except the hydraulic heads?

[josh817]

Yes. The reason for the Timeserts is because the threaded end of a hydraulic lifter is bigger than a solid lifter. What the Timesert does is screw onto the bottom of the solid lifter, essentially making the bottom threaded portion larger, which screws directly into the head.

 

For instance, I have 2 P90A heads and an E88 head. I took the solids from the '72 E88, did the Timeserts, and they fit in no problem on an '83 P90A. We are lucky that Datsun/Nissan made the L-series stuff interchangeable for the most part. Otherwise how would we have strokers?! :] I do love my stroker. Sometimes it feels like its stroking me. >_> Anyways! Goodluck!

 

Go check out this thread for all the heads and info about heads. I know that on the Z motors (don't ask me about the L28D), their heads go up to a P90A and it was the P90A which had hydraulics. All the other ones have solids so get out there and find one. You can do me a favor actually and find a really crappy, cracked, warped head and pull the lifters. When you're done scrapping it, take cross sectional cuts so I can port another head and not hit water. :] haha

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=129066

[DuoWing]

Ok again, I'm still pretty much a noob when it comes to valvetrain stuff and such. I'm learning as I go along, but basically unlike the hydraulic lifters, the solid lifters never actually wear out? I mean you never need to replace the solid lifters themselves? Just the rocker arms, lash pads, etc?

[josh817]

Use proper oil and they should be fine for a long long time. Lets just put it this way. We're using lifters from over 30 years ago with who knows how many miles on them.

 

Solid lifter, if you look at them and/or take them apart, you basically have a locknut, the pivot head, and then the body of the lifter. I guess if you manage to wear out the pivot head (the only part which would have metal on metal action) then you just screw them out some more... I've never heard of a case of solid lifters wearing out. Hydraulics are a different story though which I wouldn't know how to answer.

[Daeron]

The "lifter" is, quite technically, only the solid lifter piece from the older heads. Hydraulic lifters are (again, quite technically) hydraulic lash adjusters or HLAs.

 

The "solid lifters" are essentially a double threaded stud that you can adjust the height of, and torque into place, thereby achieving (through periodic check and adjustment) proper contact between cam and rocker arm.

 

the "hydraulic lifters" are essentially a one way valve for oil pressure, underneath a cylinder that pushes the rocker arm against the cam with all the might of all your oil pressure all the time... hence, low oil pressure, taptaptaptaptap.... This valve floats underneath the rocker pivot point, which is the only wear component of a "solid lifter" assembly.

 

In other words, the only shortcoming/failure prone area in a solid lifter setup is also inherent on the hydro setup.

[DuoWing]

Ordered the Time Serts, and found a person who can supply me with the cam, and lifters. When I ordered the inserts they kept asking if I had the kit to install them. I just said I did. It looked like you didn't need them because you basically used the solid lifter to thread the insert in, right?

[Tony D]

To differentiate between lifter tick and rod knock simply disconnect random plug wires and note if the 'tick' goes away. Rods #1 and 5 usually are the culprit, disconnect them both and start the engine. If there is no load on the rod it won't tick.

 

0 degrees is interesting, what is the MAXIMUM temperature you are obtaining? It may indeed call for a 5W oil. Windchill is irrelevant to mechnical items, do don't pay any attention to that at all. Ambient temperature is what matters for the oil.

 

It could be that the bottom end is knocking waiting to get lubed up due to a weak oiling system. A good mechanical gauge will tell you that.

 

The FSM has a table which shows what weight oil to use. Where I'm at, I get by with straight weight 30 in the winter months, and 40 in the summer. I don't like Multi-Vis, and don't use it unless I'm forced.

 

The Bonneville Car runs straight 50 wt and we prelube before start, so it's different.

 

You could try bottowing an 'accusump' and prelube similarly to see if the doesn't rattle on startup.

 

Seems to me you are rushing to fix an ''item'' that may not really be an issue at all. But then, that's me.