LSx powered Z-32.... GO!!!!

[BRAAP]

LSx Z-32 fever has set in. A few others are also in the midst of doing such a conversion. I’m sure we’ll be watching each other for ideas and tips as we trudge through the process.

 

This thread is to be the think tank for this conversion, a spin off from this thread which answered the question of which power-plant will motivate;

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/73951-lsx-powered-z-32-go/

 

For the most part, these first few posts will be cut and pastes from that thread.

This thread is the formal build;

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=143967

 

 

For the mock up phase I have been using a Z-32 parts car dubbed the Mock Up Mule. Also been using a 2000 Vette LS1 short block and a complete 5.3 LM7. The 5.3 will be the “short term” power plant, long term goal is to build the single plane V-8 we have been discussing here, though using the LSx as the foundation;

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139545

 

Here are some shots of the car receiving the LSx;

 

 

Edited July 27, 2010 by BRAAP
Fixed broken link.

[BRAAP]

This post is the covers the initial “best fit” scenario to see how well the LSx and T-56 fit with the shortest possible oil pan over the rack with no mods to the car itself. Oil pan was removed, T-56 bolted up!

 

Short version is, the LSx will NOT fit in an unmolested Z-32 engine bay. Even with the most extensively modified shortened oil pan, some form of modification will HAVE to be done to the car, whether it be cutting the firewall/trans tunnel entrance, relocate the rack and pinion, and or modify the hood to clear the throttle body.

 

Long version.

Took the ’01 Vette LS1 short block, removed the oil pan and bolted on a pair of wooden strips to the pan rail to simulate the absolute shortest oil pan, (included the distance that should be between the pan and the rack). The OE LSx Windage tray is very close to the rotating crankshaft. The lowest point of that windage tray is 1.25” below the pan rail. I figure the oil pan should be no closer than ¼” to the windage tray. With the cast oil pan being approx 1/8” - 3/16” thick, add a 1/2” oil pan to rack clearance, (between 2 1/8”-2 3/16”), I cut a couple of boards at 2.25” and bolted them to the pan rail so that the engine could sit on the rack simulating the lowest possible engine position as if it were bolted in the car. This puts the crank windage tray 5/8"-3/4" inch above the rack, allowing approx 1/2" oil pan-to-rack clearance with an oil pan modded as short as possible in the region of the rack.

 

Then I bolted up the T-56 trans and stabbed the engine/trans in the mock up mule.

 

In an attempt to replicate the OE crankshaft position, engine tilt, etc I measured my Z-32 DD. Crankshaft centerline is approx 6.125” above the top of the stock sway bar, engine tilt as measured across the face of the crank damper, is 1.5-2 degrees tilted rear down in relation to the top of the frame rails. I realize those figures do not have to be replicated exactly, but it does offer some point of reference.

With the engine sitting in this low as possible position, engine as far back as it will sit with 2.5 degree engine tilt, crankshaft centerline is approx 3/8” higher than OE. Trans is wedged up tight against the top of the tunnel, (bellhousing to trans mating surface is what contacts the top of the tunnel). With the hood closed, the forward portion of the padding on the underside of the hood is between 0" and 1/8” clearance to the throttle body! Bellhousing mating surface is +/- 1” or so fore and aft of where the VG30DE trans-engine mating surface resides.

 

In summation, trans is wedged tight to the top of the trans tunnel, engine/trans is as far back as it will physically sit and the throttle body is in contact with the padding under the hood! Moving the engine forward offers no relief to the throttle body hood issue and only exaggerates the very short distance left between the throttle body and the radiator core support to get a 90 degree air inlet elbow, even with the Radiator mounted in front of the core support.

 

All in all, the LSx Z-32 will require some modification to the car itself. I still have quite a bit of head scratching to do, all kinds of ideas running through my mind, goal is still to get the LSx in the Z-32 without having to cut the firewall. Ideally I want to come up with a solution that can be duplicated as easily as possible by others without having to gut the interior to hack up the firewall compromising climate control and/or other factory Z-32 systems! Couple ideas revolve around altering the rack location, the trick will be doing so without adversely affecting the steering geometry. Dropping the rack down approx 1” will be a huge help. Just opening up the trans tunnel entrance at the firewall allowing the engine to move back approx 2-3” and dropping the rack approx 7.5-1” would alleviate essentially all physical installation conflicts, but again, want to avoid cutting the firewall.

 

Here are some pics;

 

Frontal shot;

 

Shot of the bellhousing;

 

 

Lack of hood clearance. Hood is NOT in the first latch!

 

Windage tray to rack clearance. Rack is outlined in Green, windage tray is outlined in Magenta.

[BRAAP]

Did some more Head scratching and fine tuning of the mock up.

 

Unlike the S-30 where there is practically 2 and half acres of open space to just willy nilly drop an engine into without fear of clearance issues, the Z-32 is a confined space with very limited options!

 

So I spent some time playing with different fore-aft positions with the LS1 and T-56 and feel pretty comfortable with my final engine resting place.

 

"Points of interest" that need addressing; (calling those issues "obstacles" just sounds so negative…)

 

1) Rack and pinion. Lower the rack ½”-1”. Will be looking into the least compromising way to accomplish this.

a) Dropping the entire x-member with a spacer between the X-member and frame rail is the easiest, so long as it doesn’t compromise suspension geometry to much.

b) Lower rack in the cross member, only if that doesn’t induce too much bump steer, which I have a feeling it will if I don’t also drop the inboard LCA pickup points. Might have to contact Tube80Z with the plotted out Z-32 front suspension for his opinion of the stock geometry and what the feels are options in terms of getting the rack 1/2"-1" lower without compromising to much.

 

2) Trans tunnel entrance/Firewall. Lightly modify the trans tunnel entrance at the firewall to clear the top crest of the bell-housing using a 1-2 lbs mass at high velocity, may take several applications, (i.e. the BFH!) Also grind down the rib of the bell-housing if one exist on the T-56 I will be using.

 

3) Trans tunnel. Lightly modify the trans tunnel with a BFH at the body seam where it goes from the slope from the firewall to the horizontal plane, to clear the bell-housing to trans bolt-pad on the top of the trans, circled in Blue.

There is approx ½” clearance between the trans tunnel and the bottom of the cars climate control duct work at this location. Pic below, Green is duct work, Magenta is trans tunnel, Red is seam that needs BFH modification from under the car.

 

 

4) TB-hood clearance. “Might” have to notch the stiffener in the hood to gain clearance for the Throttle body.

 

 

5) Heater lines. They exit the car through the firewall right at the passenger cylinder head which will require some creative plumbing to make that work without having to open up the dash and relocate the firewall penetrations for the heater supply and return plumbing. I figure this project is one of those “points of interest” that can be dealt with later and shouldn’t dictate the engines placement as much as the other interference “points of interest” do.

 

6) Oil Pan. Looks like the uber nice AUTOKRAFT oil pan will essentially be a bolt in. The sump is exactly 9” from the rear to the front of the sump, clearing the rack by approx 1" fore and aft. Will have to notch the pan to clear the top of the rack. Might talk to the nice gents at AUTOKRAFT and see if they will do that in-house, (dedicated Z-32 LSx oil pan?!?!?) The rack mount tabs look like they can easily be modified to clear the pan kickouts.

Courtesy of; www.autokraft.org/products

 

 

 

7) Trans. In this position, the GTO T-56 with its shifter location puts the shifter EXACTLY 3/8” forward of the stock Z-32 location To use the GTO T-56 you “might” have to remove some material from the top of the trans tunnel to clear the plastic housing for this shifter, but I am pretty sure there is enough room under the Z-32 console for such. I still may use the Caddy CTS-V T-56 as its shifter design and operation is the same as the OE Z-32, would just require adapting the stock shifter to the T-56 shift arm.

 

GTO shifter extends shift lever 3 3/8” rearward from the F-bod T-56. A HUGE thank you goes out to m1noel for this GTO shifter.

 

Area of the trans tunnel that “might” need to be modified/cut to clear the GTO shifter apparatus.

 

 

 

Here is the TB to core support distance;

 

 

For those interested in a possible front sump pan with the engine trans in this position, here is the measurement from the forward most portion of the rack to the front cover/block mating surface. The cross member is in-front of the rack so it will need to be extensively modified for any sort of front sump oil pan;

[BRAAP]

Another mock up test...

Dropped the cross member ¾” simulating an engine drop of ¾” lower than the previous mock up! WOOHOO!!! Now we have hood clearance! Now to find a way to get the rack exactly 1” lower in the car without negatively affecting the front suspension geometry too much. Regardless, this is 100% GO! Started the official build thread here;

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=143967

 

Here are some pics of today’s mock up.

 

The motor mounts and X-member mount hole alignment;

 

 

Intake-Firewall clearance;

 

 

Heater outlets into passenger cylinder head;

 

 

 

TB-hood clearance;

 

 

 

Trans mount alignment;

 

 

Underside of engine with pan removed;

[BRAAP]

Back to real time updates.

 

Sold the VH45DE, taking it down to be crated and shipped today. Also sold the T-56 for Gen I-II SBC.

Purchased a Gen III-IV T-56 w/hydraulics, flywheel and LS6 clutch!

Purchased a set of new crate motor take-out LS6 yellow valve springs, lifters, pushrods. Still on the look out for the 2000 “Y” body, (Vette) stock cam GM Pt# 12560968

 

Next on the agenda;

 

1) Nail down the exact approach to getting the rack & pinion lowered 1”.

 

2) Nail down the final plan for the oil pan, (the AutoKraft pan is looking REAL good right now!)

 

3) Once the trans arrives, build the engine and trans mounts.

 

4) Clean up the LM7, paint block, remove the heads, tear down the heads and wave the Rusch Motorsports magic wand over them, reassemble and install back on the LM7.

 

 

 

Sell the Supercharged SBC 350 project, the VG30DE and 5 speed from the Z-32 and few other trinket items in the shop, then its time to graduate from the mock up mule to the LSx recipient.

[biohzrd]

lookin good. just makes me wish i had more time to spend on mine right now. trying to find a junked k-member so i can get to work on a tubular one that will lower the rack. i'll keep you up to date.

[BRAAP]

Added a few more items to the "Agenda"

 

1) Acquire a complete GTO shifter with base, boots, etc.

 

2) Acquire a new cam, preferably the 2000 “Y” body, (Vette) stock cam GM Pt# 12560968, (0968 3 22 0058).

 

3) Acquire a starter to fit the LM7, F-bod T-56 with LS6 clutch/flywheel package.

 

4) Sell the Supercharged SBC 350 project, the VG30DE and 5 speed from the Z-32 and few other trinket items in the shop, then its time to graduate from the mock up mule to the LSx recipient.

[Gollum]

Why is there not a single post from anyone in here?! Go braap go! I love the project, and I can't wait to see some work on the upcoming crank.

[BRAAP]

Why is there not a single post from anyone in here?! Go braap go! I love the project, and I can't wait to see some work on the upcoming crank.

 

They're scared I'll give them an embarrassing user tittle..

[FlatBlack]

Can't wait to see it finished - Good luck Braaaap!

 

Hey, if you have any more LSXs laying around you can go ahead and ship one down my way

[fastzcars]

OK I'll a cheer leader! GO BRAPP GO!!!! If anyone can pull this off, its Brapp

[thehelix112]

Wow. Most detailed transplant thread ever. Nice work!

 

Dave

[Knapper411]

That sure is a massive write up. Im doing the swap with a 6.0L and with all the writing youve done it almost makes it sound harder than it really is.

[olie05]

If the TB was rubbing the hood, why not go to a different intake manifold, if the goal is to not cut up the car?

 

the word "crossram" comes to mind.

 

alternatively a SBF 5.0 style FI manifold would fit the bill. (side mounted throttle)

[ShaggyZ]

Obligatory on-topic reply: neato!

 

My real reason for posting here: how similar are the J30 and Z32 engine bays, as the J30 comes stock with a VG30DE and the Leopard (JDM J30) has a VH41 option?

[260DET]

Why is there not a single post from anyone in here?! Go braap go! I love the project, and I can't wait to see some work on the upcoming crank.

 

We are all stunned? Such attention to detail, words fail, yep.

[Powerskay]

GO Braap!!!

I been working so much, I cant get time to even test drop my motor in to get a good look at it.....im itching to fiddle with it!

[BRAAP]

Nothing substantial to update right now. Been busy with honey do lists and starting up a few more Rusch Motorsports projects.

 

Tore the cam out of the LS1 short block. We knew it was an aftermarket cam, turns out it is custom Comp Cams grind and in EXCELLENT, almost new condition. In this 2000 LS1, with heads, LS6 intake and some exhaust, this cam churned out over 370 HP to the wheels! I have no desire to use this cam, so it will sit on the shelf waiting for Ron to build an LSx for his clean 260-Z shell.

Grind 3712R/3714R I/E HR13

Valve lift .562”/.566” I/E

Dur. @ .050” 218/222 I/E

LSA 113 deg.

 

 

The T-56 with LS6 clutch, flywheel etc is still enroute from Hawaii, scheduled to arrive on the 10th/11th.

Just received my GM cam swap gasket kit, (water pump, front cover, and front main seal).

Still need to order the head swap kit with gaskets, head bolts etc. (need to remove the heads first to see if I can use the MLS head gaskets…)

Ordered a new starter, should arrive any day.

Haven't found a GTO shifter arrangement. Might just for-go that and dog-leg it. I think I 'll like the shift lever geometry the dog leg will provide.

 

Bought 2 cams. One is for sure on the way, the other, awaiting tracking number…

 

The cam on the way is the one I will be running;

2000 Y body, Vette,

GM Pt# 12560968

Valve lift .500”/.500”

Dur. @.050” 198/209 I/E

LSA 115.5 deg

 

Should be subtle gain in midrange and top end torque without any sacrifice wont to 2k RPM.

 

The other cam I bought is

2001 LS-6 Corvette Z-06 cam,

Pt # 12560950

Valve lift .525"/.525" I/E

Dur. @ .050” 204/211 I/E

LSA 116 deg

 

For this interim power plant, if the milder Vette cam isn’t too mild for the 5.3, I’ll swap in the Z-06 cam, otherwise I’ll hang on to it for “interim part duex”, a 6.0L. Should keep me satisfied while building the Pinnacle F550 LSx.

 

Just started collaboration with a shop to build a batch of custom aluminum oil pans dedicated for the Z-32 LSx conversion!

Tossing around the idea of a front sump, though would require cross member mods. Will update more on that we progress…

 

Till the next update...

[m1noel]

Haven't found a GTO shifter arrangement. Might just for-go that and dog-leg it. I think I 'll like the shift lever geometry the dog leg will provide.

 

Paul,

I really think that by doing that you will have a better shift feel and action. Been keeping up with your posts and find it very interesting reading. But you are making me want to do a cam swap, and I really don't want to be taking it apart now that driving season is nearly upon us.

Mike

[BRAAP]

Haven't found a GTO shifter arrangement. Might just for-go that and dog-leg it. I think I 'll like the shift lever geometry the dog leg will provide.

 

Paul,

I really think that by doing that you will have a better shift feel and action. Been keeping up with your posts and find it very interesting reading. But you are making me want to do a cam swap, and I really don't want to be taking it apart now that driving season is nearly upon us.

Mike

 

 

 

EVERY single dyno report I have found, shows the LSx responds positively to cam swaps, in particular aftermarket cams with their more aggressive ramps vs the OE cam. Even grinds comparable to the OE LS6 grinds show 15+ lbs of torque gain from the start of the pull to the end, whether it be on an engine dyno or chassis dyno! The only reason I'm going with these OE cams is I got them at a fair price, otherwise if I were to keep the 5.3 long term, I would step up and pay the extra for a Comp, Lunati, or Crane offering without any reservations.