pete280z Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Am I making a mistake putting together half shafts with tripod-style joints at both ends? Based on information from this thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=143201 I purchased two of those Pathfinder front axles. After partially disassembling both of them I have confirmed that it's entirely possible to construct axles with the 5-bolt flange on both ends. The most difficult part is cutting a new snap ring groove on one end of the axle. Other than that, the whole process is very simple. From what I've found online, the s130t axles have the uncommon trait of using a tripod joint on the outboard side. Most everything refers to tripods as the inboard side of an axle with a "real" CV (Rzeppa?) joint outboard. So would it be a problem to use the tripod for both the inboard and outboard joints? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Had no problem when doing a CV conversion on a 260Z, from memory some factory setups use a tripod joint each end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I'm no expert, but my friend Bryan had Oregon driveline weld rzeppa joints to the pathfinder axles to install the R32 Nismo LSD. The guy said that two tripods won't work I still want to try getting some tripod bearings out of an AMC Eagle 4x4. I found one in Washington but they want ~$100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Thanks for the info. I'm thinking it's time to dive back into the EMPI catalog and see what other options might be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 http://www.doubledogracing.com/z/site/halfshafts/ddr_beck_s130t_halfshafts.jpg http://www.doubledogracing.com/z/site/halfshafts/ddr_beck_z31na_halfshafts.jpg This arrangement is also on the NA z31. While the z31 has slightly more force going through it, that force is also transmitted by a longer shaft creating smaller angles. A tripod cannot transmit the same force a Rzeppa can. It also has a much lower ability to perform at angle. The maximum joint angle is also much smaller. On fwd cars the inner joint sees much less angle than the outside because the outside also has to move with the steering. A tripod cost less to manufacture, so they are put on the insides. They don't survive on the outside, so a Rzeppa is used. This is where a lot of 'cant put them on the outside' comes from. Many people hear "cv" and cant make the mental leap past *it must be on a fwd*. On a 4wd, there is an extreme amount of travel and angle. Bigger tires and lower gears increase the amount of force going through the joint. It's a tripod death for sure. There is a grey area where tripods do just fine. Lower power, lower angles, and longer shaft all help make them survive. I used to work at a place that made Rzeppa type joints, so I do have a special hate for tripods, but I will acknowledge they get the job done when the factors allow. I'm not sure exactly how your car is set up, but I've used tripods in the past. I didn't lose sleep over it, but also know I can't toss stupid prayers at it, like slicks, etc. The extra power I made was helped some by having a lowered car (reducing the joint angles). Now I have a stockpile of z31t, z32, and r32 joints and I won't ever intentionally use a tripod again. While I am thinking of it, some people call tripod joints tripots. Back in the day it had another meaning (tripod joint housings made by pot broaching), but now you can give up on anyone truely not using them interchangably. If you do anymore fact finding, you may come across it spelled this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleriousZ Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Beck, nice to see you around here and posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman Z Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Modern Motorsports Ltd. have being helpfull with the CV parts needed for the Z31 and S130. Check it out at: http://www.modernmotorsports .com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Really getting some good information in here now. Thanks Beck I'm looking for something that will stand up to high horsepower and track use. So from the sound of it, this combo isn't going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Modern Motorsports Ltd. have being helpfull with the CV parts needed for the Z31 and S130. Check it out at: http://www.modernmotorsports .com Appreciate the suggestion. I'm running Ross's coilovers and rear brakes on my car. I'm researching CV options in the 5 bolt pattern from the N/A z32. I've got a Nismo CLSD intended for that car. Everything will fit just like any R200 LSD, except that this is a 30 spline unit (The LSD came with 30 spline output shafts). So I'm looking for ways to make that work. Ross hasn't answered either of my two emails about options for this particular combo. I don't think he's interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Has anyone other than myself thought of the possibility of wacking off the long stub shaft on the wheel side of those new CV's shown in pic below, and having a steel plate adaptor (to what ever companion flange bolt pattern you may be using) properly welded onto the large left over portion of said new CV shaft? click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Has anyone other than myself thought of the possibility of wacking off the long stub shaft on the wheel side of those new CV's shown in pic below, and having a steel plate adaptor (to what ever companion flange bolt pattern you may be using) properly welded onto the large left over portion of said new CV shaft? click Thought about it - think about it often. Ever since my hunt for a setup that could use a stock axle that was a little shorter than the total Z31T axles. For now I am building a hybrid Pathfinder 5x1 with 4x1 300zxt at the wheel end so I can use the MMS billet companion flanges I already have. But I was thinking it might be possible to do as you state - use the pathfinder 5x1 at one end (the diff end - I have collected 3 sets of the 5x1 diff inputs from open shortnose R200 from R32 RB20DE powered cars, and one set of the 5x1 VLSD) then as you suggest a custom/modified pathfinder wheel end so it bolts to the stock flange. Might get to this one day....maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Started thinking about the same thing last night. Only studied the wheel end briefly before moving on to other stuff. Are you thinking of welding an adapter to the end that has 4 threaded holes to mate up to the wheel side companion flange? Sounds simple and cost-effective. The pathfinder inboard w/z31t outboard could be a workable option. But isn't the z31t another tripod? I'm still sketchy on running 2xtripod w/400-ish whp. That and the fact that new replacement parts aren't available for the z31 axle as far as I know. The 2x5-bolt setup was very attractive because new parts are still available cheaply (approx $55 US per axle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The pathfinder inboard w/z31t outboard could be a workable option. But isn't the z31t another tripod?No they are same inside as the 5x1 ie they use the same race, cage and ball bearing sizing ie 6 of the suckers. So the 4x1 Z31T is a birfield CV like the 5x1 inboard of the pathfinder The tripods are the 3x2 setups. I hope to have my axles modified in the coming days, I have new CV boots so I will be assembling these shafts in the coming weeks (this weekend is a race weekend so no time in the garage) and I will post pics etc. I have tried to source the 5x1 EMPI 87-9096 joints new locally here in NZ but no-one has them or can get them so I have to use my secondhand units and just rebuild them with new boots etc. I would consider building 5x1 at each end if I could get new 5x1 parts locally - I would just have the companion flange redrilled to the 5x1 (same PCD as the Z31T 4x1 so one hole is already there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hmm... on the EMPI axles I've got the joint inside the 5x1 side looks like the attached image... (Apologies to whomever I stole this image from) I thought that this is what is referred to as a tripod joint. Do I have my jargon mixed up? Or are the factory parts different than these EMPI replacements? I had the same issues trying to obtain the 80-9096. I wound up ordering two of the 80-4703 to play with (only $55US each IIRC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hmm... on the EMPI axles I've got the joint inside the 5x1 side looks like the attached image... (Apologies to whomever I stole this image from) I thought that this is what is referred to as a tripod joint. Do I have my jargon mixed up? Or are the factory parts different than these EMPI replacements? I had the same issues trying to obtain the 80-9096. I wound up ordering two of the 80-4703 to play with (only $55US each IIRC). Wow that is different. Inside my 5x1 axles from my JDM Terrano (WD21 pathfinder) is a race and cage setup with 6 ball bearing not a tri-pod like you have shown. I will get some pics for you.....just found this on my harddrive (must have taken it when I pulled them apart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I found this on the EMPI catalogue - not sure if the 27 spline is on the same size diameter but might be worth a look given looks the US axles are different to this part of the world aka JDM sourced. This is EMPI number 87-9522 and is used on the following models Toyota Camry 4cyl AWD 1988 Front inboard Toyota Camry 6cyl 88-93 inboard Toyota Celica All Trac 88-93, Front inboard Lexus E250 90-91 inboard Lexus E300 92-93 inboard See pic attached - you can see this would be easy to make an adaptor to whatever companion flange you have - assuming it will go on the other end of the alxes you have with the 5x1 (tripod - that has thrown me for sure) at the diff end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete280z Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just a quick update. Got a photo of the internals of the EMPI 5x1 side. Off to work... I wonder if the issue is US vs NZ or OEM vs Aftermarket. If I bump into a 4x4 pathfinder at a junkyard I'll be sure to grab the axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just a quick update. Got a photo of the internals of the EMPI 5x1 side. Off to work... I wonder if the issue is US vs NZ or OEM vs Aftermarket. If I bump into a 4x4 pathfinder at a junkyard I'll be sure to grab the axles. I think it might be an aftermarket vs OEM thing. What size is the shaft/spline this tripod goes on ie is it the same size as the wheel end of the shaft - on the OEM axles I have it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just a quick update. Got a photo of the internals of the EMPI 5x1 side. Off to work... I wonder if the issue is US vs NZ or OEM vs Aftermarket. If I bump into a 4x4 pathfinder at a junkyard I'll be sure to grab the axles. Pete S, I have a couple of those 5 bolt end pieces that are just like what you have shown in the pic above. They came off a z32 n/a 1/2 shaft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 They came off a z32 n/a 1/2 shaft...Were they OEM? If yes then maybe I found something different of the JDM WD21 I got my axles from. I see in the CV catalogues that Pathfinder and Z32 share the same aftermarket replacement partnumber so I think it might be time for me to hit my copy of fast and see what I can find out with regards to the OEM stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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