Cammed LS1 guys, need advice

[pete280z]

If you've changed cams in your LSx Z, please post what cam you're using and your opinion of it. Would you use the same cam again?

 

The cam I've had my eye on (Texas Speed 228R):

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=167&catid=44

 

When I've contacted sales departments, they seem unsure about what to recommend for the combination of shorty headers and a car that's much lighter than an f-body.

 

I'm using JTR Sanderson headers (I assume most here are too).

 

What I'm looking for: 90% street car. Wide power band with a decent idle. May eventually see 4-5 HPDE events a year when my driving ability allows. I'm not much of a drag or street racer.

[ColtGT4g63]

When I first got started, I was running a 224R from TSP, it was good for low end, but not too much upper end. By the sound of the idle you knew there was something in there, but it wasn't "crazy" sounding by any means.

 

Swapped it out for a Torquer V.2 from TSP, I broke even selling my old cam and buying the V2. its got more duration and higher lift so I thought why the hell not. I was using the comp 918 springs at the time so I couldn't go over .6" lift. The Torquer V.2 is JUST under that, so it was my only option for up grading unless I wanted to change out the valve springs.

 

Swapped that out for a MS3. When I installed a set of ported heads from TSP, I got the head / cam package and went with their advice on which cam works best with which head. This cam is really bumpy and aggresive, but still drives around the street perfectly fine.

 

I wouldn't have any problem buying either of them again, so long as it suits the cars needs. Since my need right now is to make as much power as I can, the bigger cam was prefered over a smaller cam.

[pete280z]

If the torquer v2 worked well for you then I'm a little more confident in picking up the 228r. How much of a difference did the Tv2 make over the 224?

 

So far, TSP has favored the Torquer v.3 (Holy intake lift, Batman!). They've also recommended the 228 and now the 224. Not sure why, but they said the Torquer v.2 wouldn't work well with shorties.

[ColtGT4g63]

How much of a difference did the Tv2 make over the 224?

 

Not a huge difference, I did not dyno with the 224 though. With the Tq.V.2 I made 411 at the wheels with stock 243 heads and my old shitty single exhaust. I felt a little less grunt down low, and a little more top end.

 

Not sure why, but they said the Torquer v.2 wouldn't work well with shorties.

 

This is what they told me about the MS3. He said that you need long tubes to take advantage of the cam. And I asked him, " will I gain any power at all? " he said, " yes, but not as much. " So I said, " screw it, sign me up. "

[JMortensen]

What's your redline, and does the cam peak before the redline?

[ColtGT4g63]

What's your redline, and does the cam peak before the redline?

 

I shift around 6700, and it pulls the entire time. Have not dyno'd with my current set up.

[SSflyer]

I used a GM HotCam in mine. Little bit of a lope, and picked up about 35rwhp.

[JMortensen]

Anyone have a suggestion for an autox/roadrace cam that peaks around 5750 or 6000?

 

Thinking if you can ride the HP curve over the top, and want a redline of 6250 like I do that would be better than a cam that peaks at 6250 and you don't get to ride the top of the curve on shifts. Or is the hp increase so much bigger that this outweighs riding the top of the curve???

[pete280z]

Here's a thread from ls1tech that shows a few cams (stock included) from an engine dyno test:

 

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/982895-ls1-camshaft-engine-dyno-comparision.html

 

According to that data, the cam you're looking for is probably the stocker. For a slightly higher peak, the z06 cam might be worth checking.

[JMortensen]

Thanks for that info. I think I need to throw out my "ride the crest of the hp curve" theory and get a bigger cam. For instance, if you compare the 228R with the stocker, at 6000 rpm the stocker makes 416hp and the 228R makes 476, and the smaller cam doesn't improve on the larger cam at all until you get all the way down to 4300 rpm.

 

Basically what I'm looking for is the most power from the time you shift from one gear to the next, and it appears that the bigger cams make so much more power than the small ones that it makes sense to get the bigger one even if you can't wind it all the way out.

 

Based on that info the 228R and Torquer 3 look like good choices.

[Cable]

I used a GM HotCam in mine. Little bit of a lope, and picked up about 35rwhp.

 

I was given the same cam for free as a favor. Anyway, what size LSx motor are you running? Any sound chips? How much tuning was needed? Are you running an auto tranny? If so, what stall?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get an idea.

[SSflyer]

I was given the same cam for free as a favor. Anyway, what size LSx motor are you running? Any sound chips? How much tuning was needed? Are you running an auto tranny? If so, what stall?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get an idea.

 

 

When the cam was installed it was the first mod on a stock LS1 motor with a 6-spd trans. Later I added a set of longtubes. I had it dyno tuned ($500) and later had them recheck it. The plan was to do heads later but that still hasn't happened.

[janaka]

I'm running a 224/224 cam.

Its great for the street and tons of fun. Nice idle, i have it on 114lsa so its not too bumpy at all but EVERYONE loves the idle and exhuast note of the car. I don't see my self changing it out any time soon, I'll do a set of heads before I do that.

 

If I swap another LS1 into the '74 this will be the cam that it gets for sure.

[Blown77Z]

I'm leaning towards the PRC 220cc 5.3L Stage 2.5 CNC Ported Heads w/ the Tsunami cam offered by Texas Speed

Heads: http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=84&catid=20

Cam: http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=942&catid=44

However, I will call them and ask them for advise before I buy anything.

[JMortensen]

I'm getting close to buying a cam so I emailed Texas Speed. I'm not sure about the response I got, wanted opinions.

 

Here's my email:

I'm building an autox 240Z car. It will be ~2250 lbs and will run the 2006 L33 5.3 truck motor with flex plate and dual 7.5" clutch setup with a T56. The motor has 33K on it and looks brand new inside. This motor has 9.9:1 compression from the factory and is basically stock internally (I installed ARP rod bolts) but I will be running an Edelbrock dual plane manifold and a Race Demon 650 carb. Looking at cam options and it appears that you guys are the ones to talk to. I've been told that with the stock bottom end I should keep the rev limiter at around 6250 rpm. If I were to blow up this engine I'd probably build one that could spin a little higher, maybe 7000 rpm or so.

 

Some of the links to dyno charts on ls1tech.com are dead now, but I believe that when they were up I had thought the 228R looked pretty good but I think you have options for LSA and lift too with that cam these days. Most runs will be done entirely in 2nd gear, even the start, and this car should top out at about 70 mph in 2nd with the rear end and tire diameter I have.

 

Basically I'm looking for a cam package that does the following:

 

1. Provides good power all around, there will undoubtedly be some slow corners where I'll be hitting the gas at 2500 rpm

2. Doesn't require flycutting pistons or otherwise disassembling the motor

3. Comes in a complete package with springs, retainers, pushrods, cam, etc

 

Do you think I'm on the right track with the 228R or would you suggest something else? This is a trailered race car so idle quality, etc makes no difference whatsoever.

 

Thanks,

 

Jon Mortensen

 

And the response:

Jon,

 

We would probably end up doing a custom cam for you. I think any of the off the shelf cams we have will be too large and kill too much low end power in a 5.3l motor. We would want something like a 212/216 .558/.561 112 LSA +2. This cam will give you a broad useable powerband in the 5.3l that will work much better for the road racing you are looking to do.

 

Thanks

John Janz

Texas Speed & Performance

www.texas-speed.com

806.866.0734

 

Now I came back to this thread and looked at the dyno charts, and there does appear to be more torque and hp in the midrange with the stock cam than there is with the 228R or any of the others. I'm just looking at the charts thinking that I can live with have 25 less ft/lbs from 3500-4500 as the tradeoff for getting an extra 50 hp at the top end. Am I oversimplifying to think that the 5.3 is going to have a curve damn near identical to what's shown, just with lower numbers?

 

I get that the bigger the area under the torque curve is the better, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself to go small probably because I did that with the L6 and then was so much happier when I went bigger later on.

[Cable]

I ended up going with a Lunati Voodoo cam, #60511 .567/.567" lift, 222/228 dur@.050", 113 LSA. Idles alittle bumpy, tons of power under the curve, pulls to 6500 RPM, etc. I am running a stock converter and knocked down a 12.20@115 mph with a crappy 2.3 second 60ft last Friday night on bald 245/50/16 street Kumho's. That was the first and only time this car has been to the track. If I had a few more runs I could of easily got the 60ft down and nailed at least a 11.9x. If I had some slicks or even drag radials, mid 11's wouldn't be too hard. Later down the road after I have slicks I'll add a 150 shot and get kicked off the track for running deep into the 10's w/o a roll bar/cage .

[heavy85]

Jon - do you really think you'll need more power for autox? If your planning track stuff I definitely agree but can't imagine that it'll help in autox. Anyway, I've been wanting a cam for a long time and was looking at the ASA cam. It's got TONS of duration, low lift, 110 LSA and makes good broad power. It was developed by GM for the spec ASA (low level Nascar) series engine. They say it likes an open exhaust and idle is rough but I figure if GM designed it for constant high RPM abuse it should be pretty easy on the valvetrain. Fr me any cam will have to wait until next year but thought I would throw this out there.

 

Cameron

[JMortensen]

Jon - do you really think you'll need more power for autox? If your planning track stuff I definitely agree but can't imagine that it'll help in autox. Anyway, I've been wanting a cam for a long time and was looking at the ASA cam. It's got TONS of duration, low lift, 110 LSA and makes good broad power. It was developed by GM for the spec ASA (low level Nascar) series engine. They say it likes an open exhaust and idle is rough but I figure if GM designed it for constant high RPM abuse it should be pretty easy on the valvetrain. Fr me any cam will have to wait until next year but thought I would throw this out there.

The stock 5.3 cam runs out of poop at 5500 rpm, and I do think I need more rpm range than that. I probably would not need more power, but I can't see more top end hurting any either. If I'm going to get a cam though, might as well get a good one. The car will eventually be road raced (probably just time trials and track days), I just don't want to jump straight into that after years of not racing at all. That would be jumping straight into the deep end for sure.

 

I'll take a look at the ASA cam, but I've been hearing warnings not to rev the LS over 6250 in road racing type usage, so if it is designed for really high rpms, then it might not be a good fit for me.

Edited May 24, 2010 by JMortensen

[JMortensen]

7 months later, just ordered my cam. Talked about the cam suggested before, but ended up with a 220/224, .581 lift 112 +2 LSA. He said this cam will peak around 6300 and have a nice flat torque curve. The previously suggested cam would peak around 6100 and would have a little tiny bit more midrange. I told him I have a habit of buying too small and regretting it, so we went with the larger, and he said that the difference would be pretty minimal, probably not enough to tell on the butt dyno. He also talked me into a gasket set and dual roller chain due to the constant accel and decel of an autox or road race engine. I'll have it soon, and probably won't be able to drive it for another year, so don't ask how it worked out, because I have no idea...

[SUNNY Z]

7 months later, just ordered my cam. Talked about the cam suggested before, but ended up with a 220/224, .581 lift 112 +2 LSA. He said this cam will peak around 6300 and have a nice flat torque curve. The previously suggested cam would peak around 6100 and would have a little tiny bit more midrange. I told him I have a habit of buying too small and regretting it, so we went with the larger, and he said that the difference would be pretty minimal, probably not enough to tell on the butt dyno. He also talked me into a gasket set and dual roller chain due to the constant accel and decel of an autox or road race engine. I'll have it soon, and probably won't be able to drive it for another year, so don't ask how it worked out, because I have no idea...

 

that's just a lil guy! I run a Vengeance VRX4 in my Camaro. 228/230 .598/.592 on a 112, and it's awesome! I am considering pulling it out and going bigger. It's been said time and time again, but drivability comes from a good tune.