jacob80 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Hey guys, Well we have just rebuilt our L28ET and we were going to try and do the oil pan right so it wouldn't leak and we wouldn't have to worry about it. So we went out and bought the MSA super duper gasket and pounded the mating surface of the oil pan flat from someone previously overtightening. We slapped on the gasket dry and torqued them all to 7 pounds (or whatever it is). With all this done, pretty much know its not going to leak, what do you know, voila: it leaks. VERY irritating knowing we did everything right just to see it leak. What do we do? Obviously I'll have to drop the front axle and change it but what can I do different to have a good seal? I'll probably get the nissan gasket this time, just to be sure. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_datto Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I'd like to see how to get a good seal on the oil pan too. While I don't have a bad leaking problem, I do get a couple drips occasionally. I make my oil pan gaskets out of cork gasket sheets, I've used it twice on my Z and once for my old mans Fiat. The material is probably fine, but maybe 7lbs of torque is just not enough. It sure doesn't feel like much. Also, I was considering using a thinner gasket (I think I used 1.5mm previously), and then possibly even stronger bolts so I could safely torque them up a fair bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 pretty much know its not going to leak, what do you know, voila: it leaks. VERY irritating knowing we did everything right just to see it leak. What do we do? First, have you run the engine yet? If so, trying retorquing the bolts. This is recommended after you run the engine for a bit since they are not really torqued tightly. When attaching the pan, I use a thin smear of Black RTV between the pan and the gasket, not the block and the gasket as its not needed. This has worked every time. Obviously I'll have to drop the front axle and change it but what can I do different to have a good seal? I'll probably get the nissan gasket this time, just to be sure. Thanks guys! Front axle? Are you sure you are talking about a Z? You can change the gasket very easily, at least on a 240z. Drain the oil. Set the engine at TDC. This makes it easier for the pan to clear #1 journal. Jack up the engine just a bit to allow the pan to clear the steering rack. Remember to loosen the engine mounts first. Remove the bolts holding the oil pan and then remove the oil pan. It's that simple. You may have to wiggle the pan around a bit to get the clearance, but it is doable. I changed the gasket on my old L24 this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Do you have the steel pan reinforcements in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAG58 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I personally used a very thin coat of risoline on mine. The PO decided that he needed 7-800 ft/lbs of torque to keep that pan on there (most of the bolts broke off in the block) so the pan could only be straightened so much. A super thin smear of risoline on each side of the oe gasket and she hasn't leaked a drop since *knocks on wood* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 First, have you run the engine yet? If so, trying retorquing the bolts. This is recommended after you run the engine for a bit since they are not really torqued tightly. When attaching the pan, I use a thin smear of Black RTV between the pan and the gasket, not the block and the gasket as its not needed. This has worked every time. Front axle? Are you sure you are talking about a Z? You can change the gasket very easily, at least on a 240z. Drain the oil. Set the engine at TDC. This makes it easier for the pan to clear #1 journal. Jack up the engine just a bit to allow the pan to clear the steering rack. Remember to loosen the engine mounts first. Remove the bolts holding the oil pan and then remove the oil pan. It's that simple. You may have to wiggle the pan around a bit to get the clearance, but it is doable. I changed the gasket on my old L24 this way. Really? Its an L28ET though, will that make any difference? I'm worried about clearing the pick up sump is all. Also, where is the point which you are jacking the engine up on?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue72 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Where is it leaking from? Is it definitely the oil pan? Is is coming from where the pan meets the block, from where the front cover intersects with the pan and block, or somewhere else? I personally used a cheapie cork oil pan gasket from the auto parts store dry with clean and straight surfaces on both sides (full rebuild) with an AZC oil pan and didn't have any leaks until I mangled it taking the front cover off a few months later. I've got one of those super duper MSA doo-hickeys I plan on replacing it with, but not before getting both surfaces dry and coating the gasket with a little Gasgacinch on both sides. The material is probably fine, but maybe 7lbs of torque is just not enough. It sure doesn't feel like much. It is enough, that's what the Service Manuals call for. More than that and you'll likely warp the stock oil pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 The leak is coming from the rear passenger side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Really? Its an L28ET though, will that make any difference? I'm worried about clearing the pick up sump is all. Also, where is the point which you are jacking the engine up on?? The L24 has a pickup in the sump as well and it is a mid sump design. Having the pickup in the back is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFive Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Do you have the steel pan reinforcements in place? Are those the L things I have laying around in my parts pile that have holes that match up to the pan? You just bolt them up on the outside of the pan, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Yes, they help spread the load. Just like with thin stamped valve covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Alright well if I can, I'm going to drop that oil pan and put on a new gasket with a thin layer of RTV on the oil pan gasket surface and slap it on (a nissan gasket of course). Also, I'm running a silicon hose from the turbo drain to the oil pan and it keeps leaking between the barb fitting off the turbo and the hose. What do you guys use for your drain? Does yours ever leak?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The drain is large and low pressure. You shouldn't have any problems with leaks. Just make sure the hose is rated for oil and can take the heat. Silicon hose should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Do you have the steel pan reinforcements in place? Critical for a proper compression of the gasket. The MSA super duper gasket is more designed for rigid cast pans than sheetmetal ones. If you insist on using it, you need the rail reinforcements. Frankly, I cut and made my own out of strap steel, from Lowes (Or Home Depot, I forget now) Combined with the stock L28ET reinforcements the entire pan is girded with a nice thick support. It sandwiched the pan and gasket against the block. I also made my own stud kit, and use flanged-headed nuts with serrated anti-loosening feature so once they were tight, they didnt' slacken off. Worked well to this point. Then again, I believe I used a cheap cork gasket like originally in place and that worked for 100K plus miles before I opened it up! I got a super dooper MSA gasket hanging on the wall---they make a GREAT pattern for transferring bolt patterns when you make your own pan stiffener rails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For oilpan gaskets in general, (as well as valve cover and similar situations) I have always liked to take a cork gasket and spread RTV on both sides of the gasket, and then let it set up to dry for 12-24 hours. Then I use the gasket on a clean mating surface. To be brutally honest, I don't think I've done this with a Z oilpan, but it works well in all other situations I have tried it in (including sheetmetal oilpans on Roadster engines.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 ^^ Similar as above. I spread it on both sides, bearly make them hand tight and let set up over nite and hit them the next morning. Never had an auto pan leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kash Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Jacob, I read your post and thought I rote it...currently having the same issue after building my 3.1 and installing one of those super duper MSA gasket and taking special care to clean and straightening out the bolt holes on the pan. The only difference is, my leak is coming from the rear and dripping off the gear box on the passenger side (could it be the rear seal???). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacob80 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Jacob, I read your post and thought I rote it...currently having the same issue after building my 3.1 and installing one of those super duper MSA gasket and taking special care to clean and straightening out the bolt holes on the pan. The only difference is, my leak is coming from the rear and dripping off the gear box on the passenger side (could it be the rear seal???). EXACTLY my same problem. I, too was worried that it was the rear seal but I poked a q-tip up in the transmission hole where it would drain and didn't seem to find any oil on the end of it. I know its coming from the pan though because I can see the streaks! Grrr but just to confirm, but a nissan gasket, coat it with RTV, let sit for 24 hours before installing, enure mating surfaces are flat and clean, install and torque to spec, sound about right??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Read the application instructions on the RTV. Most of this stuff really needs to have clean and DRY surfaces. Some of the new oil resistant stuff will bond through a thin film of oil, but generally cleaning everywhere INCLUDING THE BOLT HOLES with a light quick evaporating solvent will make for a superior bond between metal gasket and dressing compound. People don't clean the holes out, and install the gasket forcing oil in the threads to exude out under pressure, creating a capillary where other oil can follow later. I think the 'wait 24 hours' camp is more of a get it up there wet, and semi-clamped, then install fully in the morning. This lets your bond get good, the RTV sets, and then when you tighten fully it compresses instead of gooing out in beads. Really, if you have excessive beads, you are using too much! Most directions will now tell you to let it 'skin' somewhat. But again the directions tell you what to do. Using chlorinated solvents, or good old brake cleaner, IPA, take your choice of residue free cleaners...and installing per the gasket maker's instructions has been foolproof for me for many years. I have to use RTV in gearbox installations for metal-metal fits and EVERYBODY overapplies the stuff. If you have more than a 1/8" bead that exudes out the joint you have used too much (generally speaking). Big gobs of this stuff breaking free and floating around the oil can make for bad things. Everything has a place, but read those directions and use sparingly and you will be amazed how well things seal up! You usually need a lot less than you think to accomplish the sealing once you are CLEAN AND DRY! Make sure the RTV is the newer generation oil resistant types. Older 732 and 736 style stuff can get softened over time and exposure to some oils. Really, with a thin gasket made of manila folder and some RTV you can seal the rail pretty effectively. Thick gaskets are for surface irregularities. Uniform torque allows them to semi compress in some areas and fully compress in others. If you have flat surfaces, the new generation of RTV's can seal without a gasket being in place. Done that as well. Preparation is the key, and proper application of the gasket/sealant system. Also, letting things cure properly for the requisite timefram helps immesaurably. On our oil tanks (containing Synthetic Oil in the 160F+ range, and aroudn 220 gallons on average) the SUBMERGED sections of inspection doors are sealed with ONLY RTV. Red 736 at that... This is a door that is approximately 36"x18", and has not only 20" of oil hydrostatic pressure on the joint, but 2-3PSI from a blanketing gas applied to the top of it. Straight RTV over a flat joint having less than 1" width around the perimiter of the door will seal it EVERY time, but if you have residual oil, oil in the bolt holes, oil on the door, or don't wait AT LEAST 2 hours before refilling the tank there is a very good chance you will get a 'seep' at first that starts attracting dust. Within a year you will have a mess at the door, and within 2 it will be a maintenance issue because of puddling on the floor beneath the joint. Considering they don't want to shut the thing down but once every 5 years, this is unacceptable. Flat-Dry-Follow Cure Time and Instructions for Application to the Letter-Do Not Overapply. Do that, and you should be good. Skip a step...things may get bleak! Good Luck! For our gearbox splitlines that have been set up using RTV, I will have to take grease and put it into a threaded hole on the splitline, then put a special 'o-ringed bolt' into the hole. This will allow me to screw a bolt in a hole, hydraulically compress the grease, and let it exude out under tremendous pressure to force it's way through the splitline joint and break the bond the RTV has on the two metal halves. I may have to do this in several spots before an overhead crane is capable of lifting the gearbox cover up and away from the lower half. When it's clean, dry, and properly applied ain't NOTHING short of a couple thousand PSI gonna work it's way through a metal to metal joint with cured RTV in it. Frankly, the use of a gasket in there is a potential weakpoint. If you have flat rails, and backup strips around the perimiter getting the pan OFF next time you need to do a bottom end will be more of a problem than leaks from the pan EVER will be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I Break Kleen the heck out of everything. I buy more then I need and use tons of it, plus shop paper towels. For some reason I hate leaks, cars, plumbing and my self..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.