datsun723 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Always nice to have a guy who loves what he does and is detail oriented. Loving the paint; keep sending the pics as the car is closer to completion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) well, i have to say, i'm getting rather aggravated. i feel bad because of my rapport with the shop, but i had to be firm again today. last friday, i went in to start my car for the first time in 6 months (edit -- the painter didn't allow me to because the race fuel's fumes supposedly would've destroyed the paint in the primered and/or sanded stages before the final clear coat). if you're at all familiar with my engine (last 2-3 pages of the L6 NA 3.1 sticky), not starting it has been killing me (way too much $$$ in there for it to corrode from the inside out! hell no!). the race engine is so new that it's *only* oil change (ever) was the initial 30-min break-in. the engine was completed in fall of 2008, i went on deployment for 6 months, then i came back and put my car in the body shop immediately. that was 9 f---ing months ago. i digress. i went to start the car, and it never started. tried a couple times, but it just sputtered and died. i suspected fouled plugs, but after asking my crew chief, he asked how old my race fuel was. oh, $#!t, i didn't even think of that! the shelf life of this volatile fuel (VP109, 105 r+m/2) is obviously shorter than gas, which is already fairly short. my 50 gal transfer tank in my trailer is about half full, and i believe the car is mostly full. roughly 35 gals in total at $16 a gallon. what a waste of the most refined liquid i've ever bought/smelled. well, save for single malt scotch. not to mention the cost of continuing to insure the car for 9 months while it's collected dust in the shop. long story short, i was promised the car by next wednesday at 4pm and would be cut a check for half the cost of my insurance/fuel. god, i don't want to play hard ball. please, just finish the job that was paid for in full up front. i'm still planning on giving the painter a hefty tip, he truly deserves it, but the management... make your guys finish the damn job! as i drove home, a fear dawned on me. no doubt this shop will never agree to such a project again. i remember when i went around, i had several shops tell me straight up they don't do anything older than 10-15 yrs old. (it's not as profitable -- too much detail.) combine that fear with the green direction of the world, and i wonder if i'll even be allowed to buy VP109 in the year 2025. perhaps you guys have had similar concerns? please, world. please don't take our Zs from us... Edited March 25, 2010 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sq_creations Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The car looks amazing. I have a quick question. So does the hood and hatch use factory hinges but pins instead of latches? I noticed the holes in the hatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 thanks! i continue to be impressed by, and proud of, the painter's skill and attention to detail. yes and yes. according to john coffey, not all of his customers elected to use the oem hinges as i have, but it isn't a problem to do so. that said, if you used the oem latches, the vibrational stress would inevitably defeat the [brittle] carbon fiber at the latch point. same for both the front and rear, so yes, 2 hood pins will be used on both the hood and hatch. i elected to install all of the oem emblems, including the rear hatch vents, which will be completely cosmetic. i hope the rear deck lid won't look too cluttered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Looks great Mark! I like that you're still going for an OEMish look, not something you see very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 (edited) thanks, owen / rturbo 930. that's what i love about hybridz... it's always been a forum that fosters everyone's unique style, no matter what it is or isn't. cosmetically, over the years i've envisioned different directions with the car, but in the end, when it came time to actually upgrade or restore an aspect of the car, i didn't have the heart to stray too far from the look i fell in love with. there were points where i fancied huge fenders, fog lamps, headlight covers, side skirts, spoilers, even a dark metallic teal paint job. luckily it was years before i was in a position to upgrade the car, and by that point my taste had fortunately evolved to subtly highlight and modernize the original design datsun created (plus the mandatory air dam, of course!) performance-wise, i always wanted a no kidding race car. naturally, as a punk kid with no influence other than his own passion, my definition of a race car was simply naive. by the time i showed up to my first autocross, what i really had, was a very pretty red datsun in excellent condition on the mid to high end of street performance. this put me in a class with modified Z06 corvettes, supercharged miatas, etc, and i was overwhelmingly outgunned. through hybridz's knowledge base, i've upped the car's competitive aptitude considerably. after i built my race engine, i expected to close the gap, but the gap grew larger because [a] my suspension couldn't keep up with the torque transients coming from my ATB diff the driver needed a whole new level of finesse and most influentially [c] my tires were only 2/3 the width of my competitors and my engine just pissed them the bleep off. [c] was discovered after i was shocked at how much faster the Z06 was than my z, so i requested a ride-along with a very competitive SS Z06. he absolutely had tons of power, but his acceleration was only noticeably better when he was in lower rpms where my z chokes (no replacement for displacement...). and then came the sweeping turn. i thought for sure he was going to spin out HARD, and he just stayed on the power. i couldn't BELIEVE the grip. and then the max performance into-the-ABS braking into the hairpin turn. his grip was incredible. he had 385s in the back, 355s up front. i have 225s all around, same DOT slick as his. i was quite disheartened. i realized on that day, that i could put $50k into my z, and it will never beat that car. my competitive side entertained the idea of moving on from the Z one day (i can't cut this car), perhaps to the out-of- the-box Z06 or perhaps the absurd Ariel Atom. (i WILL drive one someday!) i went on deployment, and i happily realized that no other car will "be me" like the 240Z. i took pride in the fact that it was the only z at my events, and it was in an extreme condition to be driven that hard. many people think it's a crime to not garage it, but i think it's a crime to not let it loose. talking to many of the true racers on hybridz, in an attempt to be more competitive, one thing i've always been advised is that i need to decide whether the car is a street car, a show car, or a race car. you can't truly have more than one. right as they are, i sure as heck can have a blast trying to push the envelope. the car is absolutely competitive in the big picture, with raw times that i can be proud of, just not in my own class (SM2 / SSM). and now, after the carbon fiber / repaint, there's no way i'm ever looking back. i'll squeak up to 245s, but that's it. it will be finesse. it's manual as it can be, and as volatile a ride as it can be, making the ride as challenging and fun as can be. it won't ever be truly competitive, but i can get out there and drive the hell out of (in my opinion) the sexiest car at the event, the legendary Datsun 240Z. (don't get beat by the 40 yr old datsun! haha) man, that was an unsolicited monologue if i've ever seen one! haha. what i meant to say is, thank you, i'm glad that i'm not the only one that appreciates the OEM inspired efforts. it's less subtle now with the hood pins and hatch bars, but the body is still the original beautiful little 240 with subtle hints of aggression. Edited March 30, 2010 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone028 Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 I could only imagine your frustration...so many folks admit to having their car in body shop jail, and have to wait months to even a year or two until they get it back. And thats after they actually find a shop willing to do non-insurance related bodywork! What started as a hood and hatch repaint, turned into a full body makeover. The only words of inspiration I can say is, once its finally out of jail, I have no doubt it will be all worth it. The attention to detail and commitment to quality work will really make it standout. The body line "sharpening" is something that I really envy. Subtle, yet absolutely striking. I would love to see the finished car with the lexan window installed. I've always wondered how it would look with paint on a finished car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) stage 14. buffing commences. these aren't particularly revealing, but we all love pics, so here are a couple from today: taken under fluorescent light without a flash, the picture isn't quite the same as in person, but you can still get a decent idea. that said, it's still pretty damn cool. i'm looking forward to the final finish and holding up a piece of white paper with fine print... too bad the composite hood and rear hatch will be somewhat warped / wavy. worth it, but too bad. evidently buffing is more of an ordeal than i had imagined. these pics were taken after the first stage of buffing (using rubbing compound), but before the 2nd stage (using a polish), and the 3rd stage (using some kind of micro polish), and the final stage with liquid wax. it was raining today, so he couldn't do it outside like he wanted to. I would love to see the finished car with the lexan window installed. I've always wondered how it would look with paint on a finished car. funny, i was imagining this very thing today at the shop. i'm very much looking forward to seeing the look of the rear hatch. i've been questioning my choice to install the early Z's rear hatch vents for some time now -- i'm slightly concerned that it will look too cluttered back there with all the emblems, the vents, the hood pins, the aluminum braces, and the 50 machine screws (or however many) in the lexan. but hey, it might look great, who knows... time will tell! Edited March 30, 2010 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 stage 15. buffing complete, rear hatch fully assembled! [omfg! i feel like a 12 year old boy that's next in line to get in the front seat of a roller coaster... the anticipation is KILLING me! haha.] well, i'll be damned... the shop is still on pace to deliver the car tomorrow! all of the marker lamps have been installed. still waiting for the hood to be lined up and the hood pins to be installed. closeup hood shot: this is an attempt to show the imperfect shape of the hood. you really need to move your head around to truly see the subframe (which you can, if you're looking for it. if you aren't looking for it, then you might simply notice that it isn't a perfect reflection like the top and sides of the car). you can also see some imperfections where the fender and headlight lens meet. it's from the DA (don't remember what it stands for, but it's a blocking/sanding tool) and he'll spot-wetsand it in the morning and buff it out no problem. and the image we've been waiting for, the rear hatch: really looking sharp! when i get it home i'll have time to be anal and bend the right aluminum brace to match the angle of the left one (at the top, just under the mount point). i'll polish them slightly, too. i don't think i want it to be *too* shiny, just a little less course. like the stainless trim around the windshield, side windows and the OEM mirror. has to match the theme! another view of the rear hatch area: the rubber is slighly bowing out the carbon fiber. i'm not sure i'm willing to "wait" for the rubber to settle as it bows my prized hatch. it may not ever settle, as it isn't as rigid as the steel hatch. i'll probably take some of the weatherstripping out once i get the car back to the house. any experience out there? i'm not sure i'm a fan of the vents or not, it's pretty busy, and they seem high since it looks like the lexan comes further down the hatch than the stock glass did. plus, you can see the red behind it, as they are completely cosmetic. what do you guys think? i'd very much like to hear some votes as to whether the vents belong with the OEM inspired race car look or not... closeup of the lexan assembly: this also happens to showcase the difference in how light reflects off of the composite parts versus the metal parts. the square vents in the reflection really show how they go from straight to distorted as the cross into the hatch. as you can see, this isn't even CLOSE to being weather proof. it's not remotely hose proof, so it will be rather tricky to bathe. on the plus side, the sound will also penetrate the cabin (through the thin carbon fiber and lexan, as well as sneaking between the lexan and the hatch itself), and i imagine the exhaust fumes will, too. hopefully the VP fuel won't burn my eyes... i imagine it won't, as it's MUCH softer on the nose than pump gas. standing by for installation: the painter retouched the black on the grille and rear panel, and looks like the silver trim is touched up, too. i took the tail lamps home and spent hours detailing them (40 years of soot in the left one). the left one is still stained a little darker (shown on the right). damn unobtainium. the painter has some tricks up his sleeves yet... he's going to candy apple the red portion (it's transparent) and then clear coat the whole lens after that. who knows, it might not be so noticeable once it's installed on the car. then again, with any luck, the rest of the car will draw the eyes away from the rear lamps. and i simply had to share this last pic: i was hoping to capture the shiny, sharpened rear quarter, but it didn't come out since the light was all wrong. what's interesting about this pic is if you look in the reflection of the paint you'll see a proud painter grinning with his arms crossed. haha, cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 i realized on that day, that i could put $50k into my z, and it will never beat that car. But if you spend $65k (like I did) you can run with the SCCA T1 Z06 Corvettes of 2004 vintage on most of the west coast race tracks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 stage 15. this is an attempt to show the imperfect shape of the hood. you really need to move your head around to truly see the subframe (which you can, if you're looking for it. if you aren't looking for it, then you might simply notice that it isn't a perfect reflection like the top and sides of the car). i'm not sure i'm a fan of the vents or not, it's pretty busy, and they seem high since it looks like the lexan comes further down the hatch than the stock glass did. plus, you can see the red behind it, as they are completely cosmetic. what do you guys think? i'd very much like to hear some votes as to whether the vents belong with the OEM inspired race car look or not... as you can see, this isn't even CLOSE to being weather proof. it's not remotely hose proof, so it will be rather tricky to bathe. We make the carbon fiber hoods as light and as thin as possible. You do get impressions of anything added to the layers (foam core, Nomex, inner frame) as part of the bagging and heat curing process. It just comes with the territory. Get rid of the vents. Also, I could have made stainless steel straps for the rear window if I had known. I suggest you use something like Mother's Showtime or their spray on car wash for the majority of the car cleaning. And keep it well waxed. Also, only use clean Microfiber towels on the back window and don't use any cleaner with ammonia. You're making something that's actually pretty difficult. A race car that looks like a street show car. Most folks take a street show car and make it look like a race car. May I also suggest that once its all done, you go out a scratch it somewhere just to get that inevitable event over with so you can stop worrying... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboHLS30 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 it's from the DA (don't remember what it stands for, but it's a blocking/sanding tool) It stands for Dual Action Sander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janaka Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 looks awesome! I'd ditch the vents on the hatch personally. it is a tad busy IMO. I wonder if there is a way to make the lexan weather proof at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Sorry to say, but the hatch is definitely too busy. Something's gotta go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) Edit: double post. Sorry. Internet is lagging like crazy right now... Edited March 31, 2010 by rturbo 930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 But if you spend $65k (like I did) you can run with the SCCA T1 Z06 Corvettes of 2004 vintage on most of the west coast race tracks... i meant to say "another" $50k. i haven't dared to total my folder of receipts. building up the engine alone three separate times isn't exactly efficient spending. would have been nice to "do it right the first time" like i thought i was... i'm not far off from keeping up on a straightaway (i imagine i'd keep up until fourth gear or so, no doubt that their top end would leave me in the dust!), but in the turns is another matter. could you hang with their tire patch at autocross events? i've never road raced, but i imagine that the difference in traction is more costly in autocross than it is in road racing, but perhaps i couldn't be more wrong? You're making something that's actually pretty difficult. A race car that looks like a street show car. Most folks take a street show car and make it look like a race car. May I also suggest that once its all done, you go out a scratch it somewhere just to get that inevitable event over with so you can stop worrying... a very interesting statement, one that i'm definitely going to have to remember. coming from you, i take it as a compliment! and then i laughed out loud for a solid 20 seconds after reading about yielding to the inevitable scratch! hah! I wonder if there is a way to make the lexan weather proof at all? this was something that i had asked john when i was first placing the order. at the time, i envisioned using the oem latches and keeping a somewhat stock look by avoiding hood pins. to the point, when asked about weatherproofing the hatch i believe the direct quote was "you won't ever weather proof that hatch and lexan window." now that i see it in person, i don't want to. it's beautiful as is, and i'm actually looking forward to the extra sound and fumes in the cockpit. (i say that now...) but sure, you could always devise a way if you really wanted to. as more time passed tonight, i liked the idea of the vents less and less, and along with the unanimous consensus, i think i'm going to ditch them. not certain, yet, i want to see the car in it's final state first, but i'm leaning away from them. i doubt the painter will touch the holes (i wouldn't, if i were him at this point!), so that leaves the question of what to do with the holes? i could leave them alone completely, or put dummy aluminum allen screws in to hide the holes, or... (any other thoughts out there?) i decided to open up photoshop and play around a bit: both of the mock-up images are zoomed in slightly as well, to help with the detail. as you can see, on one side, i demo how the allen screws might look, and on the other, the holes. personally, i wish they were filled... in this second angle, i swapped which side the screws/holes were on, so you can see how busy the right side would be. sooo... any clever ideas out there for cosmetically filling the holes? holes vs. the allen screws? your thoughts are very much appreciated, gentelmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) How about a paint matched red plug that will sit just about flush with the surface? Edited March 31, 2010 by rturbo 930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone028 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I would also agree that the rear vents should be removed. It is entirely too busy in my opinion. As far as filling the holes...I think whatever screw/rivet/bolts etc that matches the lexan window screws would be the way to go. Lastly, not sure how committed you are to the Datsun 240z badging, but removing it wouldnt be that bad of an idea in my opinion. With the hatch pins and the rear lexan straps, there's enough things going on to attract the eye. But again, just an idea you could play with via photochop. I'm on the fence about that one. I suppose I never really thought the idea through or researched composites. I never realized that there would a "wavy-ness" or indentation of the support frame that would be visible upon closer inspection. My good friends mustang hood is fiberglass, and I've never noticed any wavyness. Not sure if is a carbon-fiber thing only, or all composites. I also didnt think about the weather-proofing hurdle with the Lexan. Got to thank you for doing a detailed write-up on it! It will definitely help me down the road if I decide to put my Z on a diet. Regardless of the very minute imperfections (some might say nit picky or obsessive, but arent we all?), I think it looks great, and I have no doubt the two products are two of the best available on the market. Lastly, race car that looks like a show car...now thats something I have to really ponder. Seems like an impossible task, but I think yours is pretty damn close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 not sure how committed you are to the Datsun 240z badging, but removing it wouldnt be that bad of an idea in my opinion i'm definitely committed to the datsun 240z badging on the deck lid. although i agree that it would look *much* cleaner if the hatch was purpose built only (ie just the hood pins, braces and lexan hardware), the badging is what keeps the OEM inspired racer look. otherwise i'd just have a shiny racer (not necessarily a bad thing, just not what i'm going for.) [speaking of the datsun 240z emblems, does the datsun emblem look "funny" to anyone else? the cursive datsun looks off, but i can't put my finger on it (it's a new emblem, and i don't think i perfectly matches the one that came off of the old hatch).] it's this very principle (the oem inspired look) that has me wanting to keep the vents in the first place. it's an early 71, and the car came with the vents, so naturally i want to showcase the variant that the car actually is. that said, it *IS* too busy, so i'm having to choose between "less is more" visual appeal and retaining the original brandings present on the car. i don't like the choice, but such is life. I suppose I never really thought the idea through or researched composites. I never realized that there would a "wavy-ness" or indentation of the support frame that would be visible upon closer inspection. My good friends mustang hood is fiberglass, and I've never noticed any wavyness. Not sure if is a carbon-fiber thing only, or all composites. i didn't either! glad that my life's purpose is to serve as a warning to others! haha! in all seriousness, i *think* that on cheaper (ie heavier, not hand-made) composite parts they can be smoothed out almost completely. i'm under the impression that the nomex core / subframe is "pulling" the shape out of the hood. (the painter has redone the hood at least twice trying to get it out. each time, it's smooth, but 2-3 weeks later it returns. my conclusion is that this the cost of a race part (strong and light), as opposed to a cosmetic part (crap, but sometimes cosmetic). perhaps john can chime in on how their construction causes this phenomena. checking on the car today, i'm running into a problem with the oem hinges having vertical play in them because the torsion springs are removed. it's causing problems as the hood is raised and lowered -- the play allows the hood to dip as it opens, and the front of the hood sometimes scrapes the front grill and/or the bumper overriders. john suggested i try using one of the springs, and is going to see if he can come up with another idea. anyone else have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) Looks like a very nice job. But, I have to ask. With all the effort that went into the respray, why did you not have them spray the area behind the taillight panel? Edited March 31, 2010 by Sparks280zt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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