repainting my '71 240 (carbon fiber hood/hatch)

[johnc]

in all seriousness, i *think* that on cheaper (ie heavier, not hand-made) composite parts they can be smoothed out

almost completely. i'm under the impression that the nomex core / subframe is "pulling" the shape out of the hood. (the

painter has redone the hood at least twice trying to get it out. each time, it's smooth, but 2-3 weeks later it

returns. my conclusion is that this the cost of a race part (strong and light), as opposed to a cosmetic part (crap,

but sometimes cosmetic). perhaps john can chime in on how their construction causes this phenomena.

 

 

The carbon fiber hoods I sell are real, 100% carbon fiber parts that use an epoxy (not polyester) resin and are vacuum bagged and heat cured. They are designed to be strong (tested at 149 mph on my race car and a number of drag cars that exceeded 160 mph) and extra light. As a result you will see imprints or impressions of the core (foam or Nomex) and the bonded on inner frame (if added as an option). They are NOT meant to be show car parts. Spending lots of money with a body man to turn them into show car parts doesn't work. As I said above, Mark is doing this the hard way by trying to turn a race car into a show car.

 

I'm starting to get a bit pissed having to defend my parts when they are not being used as intended...

 

The fiberglass hoods I sell can be filled and blocked to a show car finish. There's more material used so the foam cores and frames do not imprint through the top of the hood.

[zredbaron]

I'm starting to get a bit pissed having to defend my parts when they are not being used as intended...

 

The fiberglass hoods I sell can be filled and blocked to a show car finish. There's more material used so the foam

cores and frames do not imprint through the top of the hood.

 

hopefully you're just kidding, but just in case, i must apologize, john, if any of my posts gave you the impression

that i was surprised by the subframe coming out or if it sounded like i was disappointed in any way.

 

let me be clear once and for all to the readers out there:

 

i'm here to say that i absolutely have john's back with these parts, and i cannot stress enough how gleamingly proud i

am of finding his parts. regarding aspects of the car i'm most proud of, these carbon fiber parts are second only to my

engine.

 

he was *extremely* clear up front that these are race parts and are not intended to be cosmetic in any way beyond

having a good shape and fit, which as far as i can tell are truly flawless. when i was going around to shops, the ones

with any composite experience marveled at the quality of the hood and hatch, and immediately lowered their estimate

(they had built in labor in their mind to "fix" the crappy composite parts, something that is not necessary with john's

parts)

 

i got what i paid for AND what i wanted: a race part. i wanted an extremely light part that idealy has a perfect oem

shape that was sturdy enough to last. that's what i have on the car, i've simply elected to go against the grain and

try and shine it up as best as i can because, well, that's my thing.

 

i knew that even if the painter made a perfect surface somehow, as soon as the hood encountered a race in the heat of

summer, the subframe would come out again. i was warned by john and every painter i ever encountered. i was ok with

that because my priority was performance, and appearance was secondary.

 

this is well worth it to me because the discussions regarding them are filled with awe. "it's stupid light." "absurd."

"i can't believe we haven't broken it." "this is hand made!?"

 

in fact, i think the "flaws" add character. subtle reminders that despite the pretty appearance, the car isn't all show

and no go; it's all go AND all show.

 

in short, buying one of these parts is in my opinion akin to buying an apple computer. yeah, you could have paid less, you

might catch some $h!t for your [correct] choice, but you will never, ever, EVER look back. i sure haven't.

 

can't wait to feel the difference on the tarmac.

Edited April 2, 2010 by zredbaron

[zredbaron]

stage 16.

 

hood pin alignment, front grill.

 

 

the front grill repainted and installed:

i've always loved how open the front end of the Z is. it just looks hungry for massive amounts of air.

 

 

 

the painter and one of the body guys have been having a threesome with my Z all week... (lucky!)

getting ready to drill the holes for the hood pin plates.

 

 

 

drilling.

the interior has been blown out with an air hose and casually wiped down as well. starting to look like her old self

again finally.

 

 

 

it's hard to capture the sharpened rear quarters on camera.

...which is a good thing. it's subtle, i definitely don't want any single aspect of the car to be too loud (where

possible, of course).

 

 

 

preview of how the hood pins will look:

the driver side in this image is still a little high, part of the hood's subframe was contacting the nut that held the

hood pin in place. just in case anyone hasn't heard the stern warnings of how hard it is to get custom hoods and

hatches mounted properly, aligned so they clear all the hardware smoothly, etc, it's a freaking nightmare! they have

spent countless hours on it, and i'm going to get it home and spend countless hours on it myself.

[~KnuckleDuster~]

Looking good! Can't wait to see it out in the sun all fresh and clean

[zredbaron]

stage 17.

 

deliverance!

 

[the car is definitely NOT finished, but it has reached the point that both the shop and i would rather i just took the

car and finished the details myself.]

 

i can't believe the car is finally in my garage! i picked it up friday afternoon, and unfortunately i haven't had

the time to play gearhead yet. i'm planning to after i finish my coffee and upload the pics from friday!

 

tee hee! (i feel like a little kid!)

 

[i can hear the bimbo girlfriend voice now: "like, why don't you ever get that excited to see ME!? it isn't FAIR!"]

 

enough stalling, how about some pics!

 

here's the rear end as is. fresh coat of black, candy appled tail lights, stainless steel trim around the tail lights

has been restored. the left tail light is still stained a little darker than the right. damn. i wish i hadn't cleaned

the inside of the right one, they might actually have been even! this also seems to be one of the angles that can

capture the sharpened rear quarters on camera.

 

 

 

here's a reference of what the rear end looked like back in '06:

note the very stained left tail lens. also, the rear glass comes down lower in the

hatch than i remember, so nevermind what i said earlier about the composite hatch. i

think the illusion was the hood pins necessitating the datsun 240z emblems be shifted

up, which cramps the vents. that's my story, and i'm stickin' to it.

 

unrelated question:

are forum pics displaying smaller by default for anyone else? they used to auto-size to your browser window's size, but

now they default to small thumbnails that you you have to click on to expand. anyone know anything about this?

 

 

things to fix: the top right hatch mounting point is quite low. sloppy. the right aluminum brace isn't the exact same

bend / slope as the left one, so i'll have to tweak that. the hood pins are oriented at 45 degree angles which is the

worst idea ever with a sloped deck lid. should be perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the car.

 

i also need to make a final determination on the rear vents. visually, i still don't like them, but my inclination to

retain the original badging is a tad stronger than it was a few days ago, too. going to sleep on it for awhile, get

used to the busy deck lid, see it on the road, etc. before making a final decision. i'll likely be using matching allen

screws to fill the holes.

 

 

i didn't even notice that they forgot to drill holes into the hood for the front emblem until i saw this pic. it's so

obvious, but i was so damn excited to be hooking up my trailer that i wasn't looking to 'inspect' the car so much as i

was just admiring its overall reflectivity.

 

a proud team and an even more proud owner:

the guy with the black collar is the only one that didn't really work on the car.

 

 

this is the photo the painter wanted:

the car leaving! haha! (this is the only one the painter was smiling in!) haha...

 

 

and finally, all buttoned up back at home:

i obviously bought a brand new car cover for the new paint job. indoor only, flannel underside. best car cover i've

ever felt (MSA sells it but will try to talk you out of it to go for the all-weather cover [technalon or something? if

anyone cares i can look up the exact models]). (i already have the all-weather one, also a fantastic cover, and that

will cover the car while it's trailered, since my trailer likes to shed crap onto the car while its on the road.)

 

i like how you can see the hood pins and aluminum braces under the car cover [looks serious!]:

 

 

 

another angle:

also, the flannel car cover's elastic edges are more springy than the all-weather cover, which keeps the cover more

taut, which of course looks sexier. i love how the S30 covers only come with one ear for mirrors - left side only. i'm

really glad i've elected to keep the single oem mirror.

 

my favorite passerby question: "hey, did you know you only have one side mirror, dude?"

 

really!? i NEVER noticed that before! [haha!]

Edited April 4, 2010 by zredbaron

[janaka]

awesome. just awesome. You really can see the sharpened quaters in some of those pics. nice touch.

[Tx1021]

Looks REALLY good!

 

Yeah the pictures are doing the same thing to me too

[RB26powered74zcar]

Exceptional job!! I have that flanel cover also, with one mirror pouch, but I have mirrors on both sides.... it still fits well, no prob. I wouldn't do with out it. It's a great fitting cover.

 

Question about your quarter panel remarks... What exactly was done to them? I saw the pic of how the wheel arch's were treated with the brake line trick, but never saw anything done to the quarters lines. Did I just miss something? I can't see what you guy's are referring to... sorry.

 

Maybe a little advice on the hatch straps: I think they may tend to vibrate, and even slap the lexan as you put the car to the test, so I'm thinking maybe apply a foam rubber tape (good quality) to the under side, that way you won't end up with marked up/ buffed marks on your rear window, and it may be quieter too.... just a thought.

 

Got any close ups of under the hood? I bet it looks just as sweet...

[zredbaron]

thanks guys!

 

it's been awhile since i've reported anything. these are the only two pics that i've taken of the car since i've

brought it home:

 

 

i was looking at the sun blinging off of the surface of the car, and i snapped these two angles. (i still find it amusing

that no one noticed the hood was missing the emblem, including me!)

 

 

 

these were taken the next day to work on it outside, but the pollen (a very serious, disgusting buildup this time of

year here in virginia) seemed to be statically attracted to it (and i mean *fast!*) so i put it back in the garage and

buttoned it up. there were about 20 big old bumble bees that day, too, and they were really curious about this

shiny red thing.

 

 

 

Question about your quarter panel remarks... What exactly was done to them? I saw the pic of how the wheel arch's were treated with the brake line trick, but never saw anything done to the quarters lines. Did I just miss something? I can't see what you guy's are referring to... sorry.

 

Maybe a little advice on the hatch straps: I think they may tend to vibrate, and even slap the lexan as you put the car to the test, so I'm thinking maybe apply a foam rubber tape (good quality) to the under side, that way you won't end up with marked up/ buffed marks on your rear window, and it may be quieter too.... just a thought.

 

Got any close ups of under the hood? I bet it looks just as sweet...

 

 

first, the sharpened rear quarters are very subtle, so the fact that you aren't 100% sure i take as a compliment.

 

post #15 of this thread shows three subsequent angles that showcase that the viewing angle has to be just right

to even see what was done at all.

 

physically, what was done is he had a roll of painters tape, and he used the long edge of it to trace down the rear

quarter fender's oem lines. he would put the tape so that it perfectly outlined one half of the line. then he took a

sanding block and, by hand, lightly sanded the surface such that it was essentially sharpening the one half of the

line. then he peeled the tape off, and reapplied new tape to the other half of the same line, then sanded down the

other half, effectively sharpening the other side of the line. this was not aggressive sanding... he barely touched

them to the point that you could tell it had been sharpened IF you were looking for it.

 

the end result, ideally, would be that it simply showcases/highlights the original datsun lines that naturally catch

the eye, but is subtle and casual enough that a passerby wouldn't stop to think about why they're admiring it. the cut

fender lips are in the same spirit, but in my opinion, stand out a lot more and would be immediately noticed by most

gearhead types.

 

good thought about preventing a scratched lexan window. i'll have to look into that before hitting the pavement!

 

under the hood? unfortunately, the engine was quite installed during the body repaint, and i wasn't interested in

gutting the engine bay. the firewall is very dingy, sporadically oily, and shows the original gold at a few rub points.

when the body was wet sanded and rinsed with no weatherproofing, all of the fine, colored sediment made lovely

waterfall effects all over my engine bay. sucks.

 

i have a ton of detailing to do inside and out, not to mention body fitting stuff with the hood/hatch (and my new set

of stainless hood pins, these chrome ones are complete crap). i also need to experiment with an alternative to the oem

hinges (the front latches have the ability to travel about 10-15 degrees if there is no tension from the spring). the

oem springs are steel, and are much too stiff for a composite hood. probably going to end up duplicating them with

thinner steel.

 

if that wasn't enough going on, my front axles and coilovers are torn apart and in pieces wherever they could fit in my

1-car garage. i really don't want to work in there, but i'm really paranoid about the paint simply because it hasn't

been waxed yet. i can control the environment in the garage. i'm being a real tool... i'm working on the car with the

flannel car cover 3/4 on! haha!

 

[i'm installing new coilovers that john set me up with. koni 2-ways and stiffer springs.]

 

been busy with the engine. i set all the valve clearances again, indexed new plugs, drained the old race fuel, put new

fuel in, topped off fluids and fired her up. god, that fuel... the hell with priming and all those finicky starting

carb starting tricks, the engine roared alive almost as instantaneously as the starter engaged. i really think its that

fuel. it doesn't necessarily "add" more power directly, but it sure as hell just burns no matter what!

 

i have other to-dos as well. i bought a braille battery after my battery (not a braille) crapped out on me, and i need

to install it solidly (and cosmetically), which will probably take a lot more time than it should.

 

maybe i'll snap a few pics today. hope everyone else is out enjoying their z with some spring air!

[texis30O]

I am going to be going through this in the next two years. I am curious if you will reveal what the shop charged you? Did they do any undercoating? Seems as though your car was in the same shape as mine is currently in.

[zredbaron]

I am going to be going through this in the next two years. I am curious if you will reveal what the shop charged you? Did they do any undercoating? Seems as though your car was in the same shape as mine is currently in.

 

 

sure, no problem. despite the delays, i feel like i'm the one who got the better end of the deal with the job. i paid

$4500 flat to the shop and tipped the painter $1000 cash, as he clearly went above and beyond the budget of the commission in

terms of hours of labor billed vs actual hours. he also told me to make a list of things that need attention and to bring

it back "after enough time has passed that i don't get all annoyed just looking at your car again."

 

they didn't touch the undersides, they didn't touch the engine bay. it was an agreed price for the job up front.

Edited April 13, 2010 by zredbaron

[zredbaron]

if i had it to do over again, i would have intentionally coincided it with my engine rebuild so that i could paint the

engine bay as well...

[zredbaron]

i'm behind on a lot of things lately. updating this project thread is one of them.

 

i've made other progress, but these three pics are all i have on my laptop right now. just two small tasks.

 

 

the first was to fabricate spacers so that my new koni shock absorbers fit correctly in my shock tubes. essentially, if I tightened the gland

nut, the absorber had approximately 1.5" of play in the front and about 3.3" of play in the rear. i went to a local machine shop with a drawing

and came back to this:

 

it never occurred to me how heavy duty this order would be... they definitely delivered! haha, talk about overkill! the damn things weigh a total

of 5 lbs. (of unsprung weight, of course). dumbass. hopefully the effect will be negligible. it would be if it were sprung weight, but i'm not

sure about unsprung.

 

 

 

also, my strut brace that i had a new steel plate welded to wasn't made of stainless steel, so it was beginning to get rusty after about 1.5 yrs.

i filed it down with a dremel and then spray painted it with a rustoleum primer:

 

i figured even if i messed this up royally and it was hideous, it would still look better than rust!

 

 

 

and for the final coat i used rustoleum "looks like metal" variety. it's obviously paint if you inspect it, but it's *less* of an eye-sore:

 

with any luck, it may even survive the first time it's tightened down. once.

[zredbaron]

and today's episode is like stepping into a time machine.

 

i set out to de-crud much of the fender wells from the caked body shop dust layers, especially all the crud collecting

on the suspension components. i originally thought brushing/wiping off most of the crap would suffice. i ended up doing

a lot of detail work (in the fenders!? who does that?). in then end, it seems like one of those infomercials where they

wipe off some crappy paint and you're left with a beautiful antique underneath.

 

without further ado, time for some pictures! i was only going to upload my top 3, but hey, it's the digital age, and i

know when i'm looking at other projects, i always enjoy more pics!

 

please allow me to introduce you to 240Z #11518, a total diva:

 

if you were too look up spoiled in the dictionary, you might see an image along these lines.

 

 

 

here are a few before detailing shots:

 

evidently someone (maybe me in the 90s?) spray painted the rear fender wells at some point.

 

 

 

this is just to show the working environment:

 

i think i had rubbed a dry terry cloth across the fender wells at this point. a friend of mine always gets really

nervous about the "race fuel bomb" in my garage. haha!

 

 

 

the front had clearly NOT been painted at some point:

 

in this shot, the crud has been lightly brushed off. it obviously needs to be wiped

down with a terry towel or the like.

 

 

 

but then i had this idea, what if i could restore the black fender? i don't even know if it was ever black. i remember

a "back to black" rubber detailing product, but that wasn't really black, it was simply a colorless rubber conditioner.

i went to a michael's arts and crafts store and literally bought a small bottle of black dye, and mixed it into some of

this "back to black" conditioner. essentially, i just wanted a moist gel, designed to be absorbed, that would stain

everything a common shade, wiping a wet rag across everything in the process and cleaning it up.

 

this is again a "hey, even if it's hideous it will still be better than it was." boy, was i far off the mark. here is

the dyed conditioner i mixed up:

 

i elected to use a bug scrubbing sponge (soft sponge with durable fish-net exterior).

 

 

half-way through application, still drying:

 

it looks like its going to work out at this point.

 

 

 

i came back after working on another fender well, and damn!

 

at first i was like wow, that's looks sharp! great!

 

 

but then i really started to look. i started to realize that this little princess is damn near 40 years old!

 

this is something that i just had to share. clearly this car has led an incredibly privileged life for all of its days.

 

i fell in love with this Z again, the same one I've had for 12 years now. i suppose you might say we "renewed our

vows." i vowed to keep her shiny, performing like she's angry, and driven purposefully. she vowed to put out. she's

high maintenance, but i love her. and it's GOOD, too!

 

 

this was a deliberate shot (i staged the old and new shock absorbers and springs), experimenting with reflection using

my camera and enjoying photography in general:

 

and yes, i literally pulled just one corner of the cover off and did one corner at a time. (just don't ask me if i

wiped it down before i buttoned it up!)

 

 

 

the undercarriage as i was cleaning up:

 

you can see a few obvious places where i didn't do a perfect job. to be honest, it was miserably hunched over work and

i'm incredibly sore from it. a lift would have been so nice!

 

very well worth it, though. overall, she's cleaner than she's been in many, many years.

Edited April 18, 2010 by zredbaron

[Lazeum]

It looks amazingly well. Congrats to you

 

Mine is Red with the same exact look intent: red/MSA Airdam/no fenders/stock bumpers with guards (but not the same purpose, mine is done for street/roads). It gives me as well a lot of ideas to go thru the same process one day    (hopefully!!!)

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing!

Edited April 18, 2010 by Lazeum

[zredbaron]

first wax.

 

i have to say, it was a very enjoyable experience to wax my new paint for the first time. it was indoors, which i imagine was also a first for us

both. i've definitely never waxed indoors before. i'll have to do it that way from now on!

 

 

 

 

white objects seemed to reflect the best off of the freshly waxed surface:

 

 

 

the next four images are uploaded in slightly higher resolution to show the detail of the reflections.

i like the last one the best.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2010 by zredbaron

[sq_creations]

Your car looks amazing!

[zredbaron]

thanks!

 

i've been working on some odds and ends that just seem to get deeper and deeper into the weeds, causing several

delays in the process.

 

i don't think i mentioned the problem i've been having with mounting the CF hood using the oem mounts up front.

the problem is that the hinges expect spring tension to guide the track of the hinge to arc up and over the bumper

over riders. without the torsion springs, the arc is not maintained, and the hood would contact the over riders if

i didn't take your other hand and lift up to create the arc manually.

 

the stock torsion springs are pretty thick, and are way too stiff to be twisting against my prized hood. i set out

to duplicate the stock torsion springs so that the arc would be maintained with minimal twisting force. i ended up

using 3/16" steel rods. i came to this magic thickness by hoping that this "skinny" diameter would suffice, and it

does:

 

 

i duplicated both oem hinges using a pair of vice grips and a brake line bending tool. a second pair of vice grips

would have sufficed equally. on the rounded torsion spring in the picture, i heated the bends with a blow torch

first. the neater one was done cold. i recommend doing it without the heat.

 

 

 

i just copied the oem design. no need to reinvent the wheel here.

 

 

 

i did have two slight problems. my crude bends, although good enough, weren't perfect, and as such the spring

force isn't perfectly symmetrical between the two sides. also, my copies didn't have retaining tabs at the end

that kept them attached to the hinges. last week i took some unbent rod and the stock torsion springs out to have

them duplicated professionally. or so i hope.

 

 

 

another problem is that since it is a smaller diameter, the springs are now "loose" in the holding grooves and

have a desire to pop out. i used zip ties to keep it from going anywhere.

 

 

 

the result is better than i had hoped. i'm not 100% done yet (i still have to finish messing with the hood pin

hardware), but the opening/closing portion is as good as it can get for oem mounts and CF hood: i can open and

close the hood from full down to full up with one finger, and if i pause at any mid position it will freeze in

place. it's effectively at zero tension, meaning it doesn't really care where the hood is moved.

 

i consider this ideal for a composite hood that i'd just assume be nice to, so i thought i would share my

successful interim solution. i'll repost with final setup next week probably.

[Dtsnlvrs]

Simply Gorgeous . Have you joined The Tidewater Z-club yet?

[zredbaron]

thanks russell! i finally did join the tidewater club about a year ago or so. i've only shown my face twice, though.

 

truth be told, i'm intending to unveil the car at a local show the tidewater club is putting on this saturday in the hampton coliseum. extended to all datsuns and nissans.

 

in other news, i never uploaded pics of some custom collars (if this is even the right termfor them) that i had to have made so i could finish

installing my koni 2-ways. i had two problems. first, of the koni collars, only 1 of the 4 would actually slide into the spherical bearing on my ground control camber plates (the koni collars had ODs that varied within 1.5 thousandths). second, the collars were short, leaving a ton of threaded

strut sticking out of the top. this was fugly, not to mention interfered with my hood closing, not to mention cut out about 3/4" of total travel.

 

here's what i designed, with the original koni collars shown next to it:

 

 

obviously priority #1 was for the damn things to fit. after that, i made the collar portion longer, to bring the excess threaded strut height down.

i also slightly widened the collar, to match the diameter of the strut. finally, i lengthened the skinny portion of the collar simply because it only was in contact with about 2/3 of the spherical bearing when i thought it should get closer to the top where the nut cinches on the spherical bearing.

more balanced stress distribution, at least in my mind.

 

while all this makes complete sense to me in my own mind, this design isn't based on any experience whatsoever. if anyone sees anything that i

did that is a 'big no-no', then please say so!

 

here is a side by side comparison of how the camber plate mounting is repositioned. obviously the bump stop will be slid upward, but i left it down as a comparison.

 

in both comparisons, the foam bump stop's top is flush with the top of where the strut itself ends and the threaded section of the strut begins.

 

 

and this is how it fits using the custom collars:

 

 

i was hoping you could see in the pic that the top of my collars are ever-so-slightly below the surface of the top of the spherical bearing. i figured

if it stuck out then there would be vertical play, so i kept it below the surface.

 

 

 

here's the final product. note the cheesy "it kinda looks like metal" paint on my strut brace. haha.

 

 

 

and then once again, the final shot before the wheels went back on:

 

 

 

so close, yet so far....

 

 

things left to do before saturday morning:

- finish stainless steel hood pin hardware mounting

- pick up professionally made (i hope) torsion springs

- install braille battery when it arrives

- flush radiator

- detail engine bay (really not looking forward to that)

- detail interior (and install new carpet kit when it arrives)

- have rear brake lines redone from the T-valve back

 

before my first race:

- install new spark plug wires

- tune my carbs

 

shortly thereafter, maybe even before:

- have the car corner balanced

- experiement with smaller venturis in the carbs

 

 

oy, that's a lot of work to do...

Edited April 27, 2010 by zredbaron