cockerstar Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Well, first off I would like to admit that I made quite a novice, embarrassing, and inexcusable mistake here... When I got my Z it was in many pieces, being stripped down for a full restore. After a ton of work I had a freshly rebuilt engine dropped in, and a new 5 speed bolted up. Filled the block with oil and water to break the engine in and check for leaks. Everything checked out fine, and after a valve adjustment and some quick carb tuning she was running great. Come September and it became time for me to move across the state for school. Wrapped the Z up nice and tight under it's cover for the winter, but sadly I forgot to drain the water and replace it with anti-freeze. My intention was to only have it in during the break during the hot August weather. The other night, I realized this fact and checked the weather back at home. 4*F. Called home the next morning and sure enough, my lower radiator hose was frozen solid, so I had the Z brought into the garage and all available space heaters pointed at the engine to thaw things out and melt the ice that had formed. After a night of roasting, the plug on the base of the radiator was pulled and all of the water was drained out. Unfortunately, none of the core plugs decided to follow their common misconception and turn into freeze plugs. Now, I am uncertain on how to proceed. I'm expecting the worst for my new engine with less than 2 miles on it, but as always, am hoping for the best. Here's what my reasoning has led me to: 1) Pull dipstick/drain oil to look for water 2) Refill with antifreeze! 3) Turn engine over by hand 4) Compression test 5) Start and bring to operating temp and cycle the thermostat Like I said, I'm all the way across the state from my baby, so I can't look at anything myself here, but at the same time I'm not entirely sure of what questions to ask my friend and brother. My friend is decently car savvy and helped me put the car back together, so he should be able to do whatever I ask. I searched through some threads, but I was only able to find one post on the same topic, and they happened to pop one of the core plugs on the passenger's side of the block. They replaced it and were good to go. What signs should I look for? Is cracking from freezing likely to be seen from the exterior of the block? Does what I've outline above seem like a logical set of steps to follow when checking for damage? Thanks in advance guys, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Your list seems logical since any cracks on the outside would be visual. The inside, you'd find fluids in places where they shouldn't be. My only worry is that what if the block somehow distorted so now you will have some weird wear problems. I find this hard to conceive though since you have the head torqued down along with the bottom end too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Wel hopefully the water didn't fracture the block. It should have had enough room to expand into ice without destroying anything. Unfortunately you said the core plugs didn't pop, so the easiest route out of the engine didn't give...could be good sign (water expanded freely and didn't damage anything) or bad sign (ice found another way out, likely through places where parts come together i.e. block and head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Well that can be just as bad in my mind... I would think the torque of the bolts would retain it unless if it started coming up between the bolts and warped/bubbled the head in that area. Of course, as per his list, he will know if that happened when he does his leak down, or when fluids are mixed, or if he's burning oil, or if fluid is coming out from the head gasket area. Thats why I think his list of things to do is pretty sound. The list diagnoses multiple things that could have occurred if it froze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Your car in the Spokane area? It's been ridiculous cold here for almost a week. Plus couple of windy days at that temp. If your car had only water in it for all this time, well, I shutter a bit. On this one expect the worse any thing else will be pleasing. Best O luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Besides the head/block interface, I'd check the timing cover and the waterpump. Also, not a bad idea to check the heater core under the dash along with the temp control valve. Hopefully those didn't get cold enough to freeze as they're in the cabin. One last thing would be the coolant path through the intake manifold if you're still using that. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 No point in worrying about it now. If any damage was done having your friends muck about the engine will only make things worse. Let it wait until you get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 The car isn't in the Spokanne area, but it's that side of the state. It's in the tri-cities right now, and yes, it's only had water in it this whole time. That's why I'm hoping for anything but the worst. I'm going to need all the luck I can get! Thanks Daniel! I'll definitely be sure to check the timing cover and the water pump. The heater core and the water passages in the intake were both bypassed. That's what I was assuming. All I had them do was drain the water to keep it from refreezing every night. I'll be home a week from today, so it's just going to be sitting in my garage until then. Where would be the most likely place for the block to fail? I don't know if anything like this has been discussed in detail on here before. I sure couldn't find it if it has. Any water jackets that are particularly thin? I've seen pictures of SBCs that have failed right on the side of the block, but I have no idea where it would be likely on the L series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Believe this or don't, but a trouble light under the hood of the car all closed up works wonders for freeze protection! 100 watt is nice, and you can put one on each side of the block. A 150 watt spotlamp will absolutely roast the thing. Bad thing: rodents are drawn to the warm area. Draw your own conclusions. Also, they make self-regulating heaters for oil pans that stick to the bottom---meant for air cooled aircraft engines. They also work GREAT for giving you a nice toasty engine on a cold morning. Me? I live in SoCal, it was 28 degrees the other day sez the wife. A bulb would work for that little dip, no issues. If I ran straight water. You gotta ask yourself, if you are running uninhibited water why NOT drain it when you leave. It's not like you can't get more. This is one of those "D'OH" moments where you will torture yourself until you see it in person. All you can do is hope for the best. If it's broken, it's just a block. Chances are VERY high you can transfer everything you have inside to another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Most badly winterized boats I ran into actually pushed out the side of the block. I never ran into one that broke internally but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 13, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2009 Unfortunately, none of the core plugs decided to follow their common misconception and turn into freeze plugs. You can guess why that makes me laugh Most badly winterized boats I ran into actually pushed out the side of the block. I never ran into one that broke internally but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Yup. If the block is fractured, it'll most likely be external... and you'll know it when you thaw it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 You gotta ask yourself, if you are running uninhibited water why NOT drain it when you leave. It's not like you can't get more. This is one of those "D'OH" moments where you will torture yourself until you see it in person. All you can do is hope for the best. If it's broken, it's just a block. Chances are VERY high you can transfer everything you have inside to another one. Any dried out water pump and thermostat housing gaskets = leak when filling up and running. Easier to just add antifreeze... And I'd hate to hear any arguments condoning the motor runs too hot to run antifreeze... because I don't believe that, ever, unless in the middle of the desert and you're running a 240 2 row radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well, fwiw, the block has been thawed out (space heater for two days), and no visible fracture signs were see on the outside of the block. Guess that's one thing I've got in my favor. The freeze plug mention was there just for your entertainment Ron Adding anti-freeze was my plan all along. It just slipped my mind before I left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Update: Hood off (it got latched while I was gone, and the release cable wan't hooked up). Visual inspection of block - everything looks good. Visual inspection of drained water - looks like rusty water, free of oil. Visual inspection of oil - looks like like oil, water free. Pulled plugs and the engine turns over very easily by hand - no caved in cylinder walls holding anything up. Currently tearing through the garage looking for for my compression tester, as everything got moved while I was gone... Will post up the final result before the sun rises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Fingers crossed;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I was going to mention the simplest of test. Placing a coolant system pressure checker on the rad would answer the most meaningful question. It will also show the source(s) of damage if external to the block or head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZXT_bean Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I was going to mention the simplest of test. Placing a coolant system pressure checker on the rad would answer the most meaningful question. It will also show the source(s) of damage if external to the block or head. he does have a point, if the head was some how lifted during the freeze you would see the air bubbles in the radiator while cranking it over. But thats only if you cant find ur compression tester. Id still do a compression check across the entire motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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