MORE CALIFORNIA SMOG INFO

[rayaapp2]

Yes, in that context "SWAP" would be correct, you have to use CA Spec Engines because it's a SWAP and not a 'replacement'...

 

BUT, you still have that pesky NON-CATALYST sticker on a 49 state S30, and when that little thing exists it comes back to that pesky chassis component classification of the catalyst.

 

Frankly they make it far more difficult in this respect than they need to do IMHO. There is a 49 state emissions spec, and a Cal Spec. If you have a Cal Chassis (easily determined by the absence of the NON CATALYST STICKER) then you pipe and visual to CA SPEC for the engine you install. If you have a Fed Chassis, then regardless of which engine you put in there, you should only be required to pass Fed Spec. The visual is a 50/50 proposition. That would make it very clear and woe be to the painter that destroys that NON-CATALYST sticker!!! They really should 'register' the VINS of vehicles who smog so that the next cycle they know it should only be tested to FED spec, and if someone tries to "Change" a car illegally it would be flagged from historical records.

 

But that's what you get when you have a car guy with 154 I.Q. ruminating on the rules, and not some 75 I.Q. Forrest Gump BAR employee that got through school on the feel-good quota that year. But I digress into bitter commentary...

 

 

Nope, a CA Spec 260 will require CA Spec 350Z donor components. How you will quantify this is beyond me. This is where the 'legwork' comes in... I don't know exactly what would qualify a 260Z as a 'CA SPEC', and my bet is that it would be classified as a FED car coming into the state, in which case the Michigan Engine Swap might fly during initial inspection/smog. If the 260 currently has CA plates....fix that quickly.

 

 

From my observations Federal S30 chassis would have no Cat. The hood says Non Catalyst on it and there wont be one underneath. I have seen them like this through 1978 280z Federal models.

Id guess that they would go by the under hood emissions label not plate information. I really need to take that sticker off my own 260Z hood as the hood was from a 76 donor and has all the emissions label info for a 76 Ca car... that may actually get me in trouble at some point briefly, I am unsure. Anyway on that label it will specify 49 state compliance or compliance in California. That is the key as far as I understand it. This information is available on all cars on the emissions label here in the US. Im not sure when they started doing this, but I assume it was early off in the mid 60's under one of the early mandates. Now here is the catch, Any vehicle that has participated in the Ca smog program has already been labeled as one or the other. Its part of the input at the time of the initial smog. Once its in there its in there. The information is used to determine emissions criteria for that car at the time of the smog. I know they keep that information for at least 6 years, but I do not know what happens beyond that. 1975 and older may not even be in the system anymore, or at least I do not have access to that information through a smog machine.

Edited April 23, 2011 by rayaapp2

[omgtofu]

This is exactly as my "LIFE EXPERIENCE" has show it to be as well. You get the citation, you have to get something from the REFEREE to clear it. If the car won't pass the check, you're SOL. (This is what happened to the 240's and 510 I mentioned...then each of those individuals got a notice regarding every car they owned (most of which were company leased vehicles LESS THAN 6 YEARS OLD BY A LONGSHOT) for a 'random out-of-cycle check'... Harrassment? To be sure. Their offense? Having their car on the cover of a magazine with enough personal details inside for someone at BAR or DMV to get a real hard-on for them and make their life miserable. The costs and time involved were considerable, and ironically even their 'illegally modified' 240's and 510's were clean-clean-clean, far cleaner than if they had been in their stock carburetted and 40 year old state of disrepair...)

 

You are NOT exempt from COMPLIANCE only routine testing. And as all these are legislative fiats, they can be changed at any time. They have already attempted several times to remove the old cap and throw everybody back into the SMOG testing system purely to RAISE REVENUE nothing more.

 

Delude yourselves all you want---someone made the phone call and got the letter of the law. Standing on 'life experience' is a grand thing, but when more than one person says it's not how it's done you might consider the fact you may be wrong.

 

I liken it to having a really hot sister and getting some regularly. It's great with only you two knowing about it, but when your friends and family learn of the affair they kind of try to set you straight. You may still think it was and is the best piece on the face of the planet...but it just ain't right.

 

This is what we have here today...

 

 

i really wish you hadnt compared motor swaps and engine mods to banging your sister....

 

and my solution to this whole ordeal? getting the hell out of CA as soon as the military lets me change stations. until then im keeping my car on base most of the time. our cops only care about current tags.

maybe go back home to georgia. coincidentally, people apparently bang their sisters there so maybe they wont care about my car.

Edited April 24, 2011 by omgtofu

[Tony D]

More uninformed paranoia. This is not hard to comply, and as a servicemember you only have to comply with the FEDERAL requirements to get the sticker if you drive off-base. There are guys on Travis with 1978 260Z's WITH CARBS that don't have a problem......

 

But leaving is not a bad deal, the more that leave means more space for me. I've had my issues, but if you can't make a car pipe clean you probably shouldn't be messing around under the hood anyway! This isn't rocket science.

[omgtofu]

More uninformed paranoia. This is not hard to comply, and as a servicemember you only have to comply with the FEDERAL requirements to get the sticker if you drive off-base. There are guys on Travis with 1978 260Z's WITH CARBS that don't have a problem......

 

But leaving is not a bad deal, the more that leave means more space for me. I've had my issues, but if you can't make a car pipe clean you probably shouldn't be messing around under the hood anyway! This isn't rocket science.

 

im not saying i cant get my stuff to comply, it does. i want to do motorswaps as well though, and im not exempt from the CHP highway checks either. my main point is if i go back to georgia, or florida where my dads at, i wont have to even think twice about any of this garbage at all.

[kamikaZeS30]

I am trying to find the "smog" stickers on my vehicle. It's 1/1971 240Z, with the hatch-vents, did those have "non-catalyst" or vacuum routing diagrams stickered somewhere on the car?

[johnc]

I am trying to find the "smog" stickers on my vehicle. It's 1/1971 240Z, with the hatch-vents, did those have "non-catalyst" or vacuum routing diagrams stickered somewhere on the car?

 

Under the hood, top (or back) right corner. Most are faded or gone by now.

[Tony D]

im not saying i cant get my stuff to comply, it does. i want to do motorswaps as well though, and im not exempt from the CHP highway checks either. my main point is if i go back to georgia, or florida where my dads at, i wont have to even think twice about any of this garbage at all.

 

Are you saying you are somehow required to comply with CA Smog as an out-of-state resident running Georgia Plates? That was covered above pretty comprehensively.

[Kali]

Actually Tony yea i know this first hand, i had a soilder that drove his car from FL to WA. Even though his car had FL plates the US Army still had him comply to WA standards, prior to registering his car on post. His car failed cause he didnt have a CAT, it was only a few months away to being "exempt" or that rolling rule in WA. Cars 25yrs or older are not required to get smogged. Anyways yes the army does require its soilders cars to pass smog emissions, but the state does not. I was able to register my car through WA stating that my car was in CA im still in the Army and with a legal WA lisence. I do have a few family members homes in OR that i can use, so I will probably being doing that thing until i figure something else out. TADA! Please find a hole in my logic so that i can prep for yet another prob.

[Tony D]

Necroposting apparently is cool now? How does Washington Smog/Emissions compliance relate to California again?

[Kali]

Ah dangit I didn't notice the last time posted. I was just saying that the military would have required the person to pass emissions in order to register POV on post.

[Kali]

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/2012/03/22/california-bill-may-exempt-pre-1981-cars-from-smog-testing/

 

Breaking news to all you CA owners CA senators are getting together to vote on a new bill to extend the no biannual smog check for cars/truck 1981 and older. Please read the link above and support the cause. Write to these senators and show that we are decent men/women that love are cars, and that we are good resposible people of the car culture. People around the world love the Fairlady and we in CA have some of the greatest ones still on the road. Let's just make sure we keep them legal!

[Tony D]

Hardly breaking, please read the RECORD - you're 4 days late from the latest recorded vote date, and almost three weeks late from the original floor vote date when the SEMA newsletter first went out:

 

http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_1224&sess=CUR&house=B&site=sen

[HowlerMonkey]

I'm pretty sure getting rid of all chevy luminas would do more toward cleaning up the air than most anything else.

 

I see more luminas running around on 5 or less cylinders than any other car.

[Tony D]

A study was done when changing from the prior BAR90 Standard. It concluded that if the state of California would simply have given every owner of a vehicle failing smog test a new Caddillac, the costs for thesmog program would be less, and the air cleaner.

It stopped being about clean air decades ago. It's about perpetuation of jobs and benefits, not much more.

[rayaapp2]

A study was done when changing from the prior BAR90 Standard. It concluded that if the state of California would simply have given every owner of a vehicle failing smog test a new Caddillac, the costs for thesmog program would be less, and the air cleaner.

It stopped being about clean air decades ago. It's about perpetuation of jobs and benefits, not much more.

 

Look into the 2011/2012 FINAL Smog Update courses Tony. Specifically what is in store for the smog program to be in full swing by Jan 1 2013. Check out the new Star Program that replaces the current Gold Shield/directed vehicle programs and what it means for the state technicians. Star has been implemented as of Jan 1 2012, but its running in a test mode gathering data from test sites so it can be fully implemented the first quarter of 2013. Its a nightmare for technicians and the beginning of the end for Test Only with a restructuring of smog licenses as of Aug 2012. Wait for the system to collapses around itself as consumers wait in lines at the remaining smog stations. All in the name of catching a few bozos clean piping. Im waiting for the day when its required to have a specialty license much like cosmetology has to just to be a technician in the field. Its coming.

[Gollum]

Look into the 2011/2012 FINAL Smog Update courses Tony. Specifically what is in store for the smog program to be in full swing by Jan 1 2013. Check out the new Star Program that replaces the current Gold Shield/directed vehicle programs and what it means for the state technicians. Star has been implemented as of Jan 1 2012, but its running in a test mode gathering data from test sites so it can be fully implemented the first quarter of 2013. Its a nightmare for technicians and the beginning of the end for Test Only with a restructuring of smog licenses as of Aug 2012. Wait for the system to collapses around itself as consumers wait in lines at the remaining smog stations. All in the name of catching a few bozos clean piping. Im waiting for the day when its required to have a specialty license much like cosmetology has to just to be a technician in the field. Its coming.

 

As someone who has friends AND family IN the smog technician field, I can say that ray is exactly right on all accounts. I don't see how the state could think it's going to work and it looks just about doomed to fail, which maybe is what the state is trying to do. Who knows.

[Vintage-TechZ]

John C thanks for actually posting useful information and for making the call. Gives me some info o go off of when I talk to my BAR guy next week.

 

Tony D, you didn't do anything but post life experiences just like mine. Don't take credit for others work with a long pointless post when you did NOTHING to help your side of the argument. You didn't post any real facts or data. Thanks for trying though.

 

This has been an interesting read for me. Particularly since I just moved to SoCal and have a few cars I'll be going through the whole 'out-of-state' processing.

 

One point I'm still finding confusion in........are we held to the level of OEM eqpt. smog for the chassis car or the power-plant -(being newer) ?

 

For example......73' Datsun S30 chassis.....with a Nissan BCNR R33 drive-train.

 

The S30 had only the smog pump installed.....the never U.S. legalized BCNR came with zero U.S. compliance components.

 

Does the Ca. law then default to their own by-laws to control your status or is this just stated as an illegal swap altogether in their eyes ? Or do they simply align a similar year of Nissan 2.6 liter engine for base-lining the U.S. compliance specs ?

 

I certainly hope its not the emboldened remark above...............................................................................^

[ctc]

This has been an interesting read for me. Particularly since I just moved to SoCal and have a few cars I'll be going through the whole 'out-of-state' processing.

 

One point I'm still finding confusion in........are we held to the level of OEM eqpt. smog for the chassis car or the power-plant -(being newer) ?

 

For example......73' Datsun S30 chassis.....with a Nissan BCNR R33 drive-train.

 

The S30 had only the smog pump installed.....the never U.S. legalized BCNR came with zero U.S. compliance components.

 

Does the Ca. law then default to their own by-laws to control your status or is this just stated as an illegal swap altogether in their eyes ? Or do they simply align a similar year of Nissan 2.6 liter engine for base-lining the U.S. compliance specs ?

 

I certainly hope its not the emboldened remark above...............................................................................^

 

There are many threads on here that covers this in depth (i.e. search), but I'll try to summarize. Your example is also complicated by the non-USDM engine example, so here goes.

 

For California registration, the engine in the car must be (cars older than 1965 are exempt, but that does not apply to Z's):

 

1) As originally equiped for the year and make of the vehicle with ALL emmissions equipment in place and functioning.

2) If the vehicle has an engine swap from an equal year or newer USDM vehicle of the same class (i.e. no heavy truck motors in cars) the vehicle will be inspected by a BAR agent and given a emissions certification based on the year of the engine, provided ALL emmissions equipment from the donor vehicle are in place and functioning.

3) Any non-USDM engine will not pass a BAR inspection.

 

So to to you example;

 

73' Datsun S30 with BCNR R33 drive train, can not be legally registered in California. The engine has never passed EPA evaluation.

 

73' Datsun S30 with orginal engine and smog pump and ALL other emissions equipment installed can be registered.

 

The emboldedend remark is true.

 

P.S. Some people rely on the DMV to be lazy. 1975 and older cars do not require a smog inspection, PRIOR to going to the DMV to get it registered. There is a chance that the guy at the DMV will be lazy and not look at the engine that is installed and only look at the VIN. In this case, you might slide by with getting plates, but it is by no means legal. If you are caught later with this swap, they will pull your registaration.

 

See this link Got a referee ticket.....

Edited April 16, 2012 by ctc

[Vintage-TechZ]

There are many threads on here that covers this in depth (i.e. search), but I'll try to summarize. Your example is also complicated by the non-USDM engine example, so here goes.

 

For California registration, the engine in the car must be (cars older than 1965 are exempt, but that does not apply to Z's):

 

1) As originally equiped for the year and make of the vehicle with ALL emmissions equipment in place and functioning.

2) If the vehicle has an engine swap from an equal year or newer USDM vehicle of the same class (i.e. no heavy truck motors in cars) the vehicle will be inspected by a BAR agent and given a emissions certification based on the year of the engine, provided ALL emmissions equipment from the donor vehicle are in place and functioning.

3) Any non-USDM engine will not pass a BAR inspection.

 

So to to you example;

 

73' Datsun S30 with BCNR R33 drive train, can not be legally registered in California. The engine has never passed EPA evaluation.

 

73' Datsun S30 with orginal engine and smog pump and ALL other emissions equipment installed can be registered.

 

The emboldedend remark is true.

 

P.S. Some people rely on the DMV to be lazy. 1975 and older cars do not require a smog inspection, PRIOR to going to the DMV to get it registered. There is a chance that the guy at the DMV will be lazy and not look at the engine that is installed and only look at the VIN. In this case, you might slide by with getting plates, but it is by no means legal. If you are caught later with this swap, they will pull your registaration.

 

See this link Got a referee ticket.....

 

What a shame. I had no doubt that a pair of high cell cats and charcoal canister installed could get this engines tune within CARB specs and pass or surpass their test for nox etc. But from what you've stated they wouldn't waste their time to do so.

 

So I'd assume that the cars I've seen driving and tagged got through their initial inspections by having the stock power-plants in the engine bay and reversed this at a later date and just took their chances on a random roadside check, just to do the dance over again in 2 years;).......that's alot of work just to be an enthusiast.

 

I'd HAVE to have the L series motor in place since my initial registration will be inspected as an "Out of state" transferred vehicle. I cannot imagine them not opening the hood to verify under those circumstances.

[randy 77zt]

I have built 2 cars with engine swaps that got bar certifed -it wasnt that hard but you have to know and understand how all the smog systems work.But that was before engines with the obd2 computor system.An engine with obd2(1996 up) would be more of a challenge.The law about 1975- earlier cars having to retain all equipment probably will never go away-but enforcing it will be up to your local leo's.If you build a flashy car(japanese tuner parts stickers,wings) and drive stupid you will get stopped.If you build a build a z with a clean paint job,nice wheels,drive normal and have the front and rear license plates on you probably will get left alone-even if it does have an illegal swap as long as its not loud.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2012 by randy 77zt