Traffic Cams....bad? Not so fast.

[cygnusx1]

Awesome, genius, use of the technology.

 

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-smart-red-light-cameras-predict-your-next-move-20110216,0,4214666.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Ktxl-Fox40NewsAtTen+%28KTXL+-+FOX40+News+at+Ten%29

 

 

 

 

 

[ModernS30]

I spy a made tyte yo S13 at 1:04 in the video.. =P Silvia front clip and all.

[Tony D]

Some countries use timers on the lights that count down so you know EXACTLY how much longer you have on the green or red, and the yellows are the 'clear the intersection' time.

 

A heluva lot cheaper. Gives us guys with a christmas tree outlook on a red light something to look forward to as well: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....GO!!!!

[cygnusx1]

Ya miss the point. This thing holds the red light longer, if a car is attempting to beat the light, or can't/won't be able to stop in time.

[ModernS30]

Ya miss the point. This thing holds the red light longer, if a car is attempting to beat the light, or can't/won't be able to stop in time.

 

Yea. That Christmas Tree thing is a good way to get plowed. Light watching is dangerous, that is why they are making lights so you can't see them from the side now. I have seen semi's barrel through because they can't stop, or slide through in the rain/snow. Great idea IMHO for sure.

[cygnusx1]

Yea. That Christmas Tree thing is a good way to get plowed. Light watching is dangerous, that is why they are making lights so you can't see them from the side now. I have seen semi's barrel through because they can't stop, or slide through in the rain/snow. Great idea IMHO for sure.

Yeah watch that video in my link above! I know all the arguments about big brother, and it's an excuse to install more red light cams, but all that aside, it's a damn smart application.

 

 

 

[BLOZ UP]

Why do these cameras cost a gazillion of dollars, and where's the regulatory agency to make sure that it isn't "tweaked" to the local government's ideals.

 

Also, at least in TX, the red light cameras are only a civil offense, since the burden of proof is lower (they don't know who ran the light). Just don't pay it if you get one. I'm sure it's like parking tickets in a large city, they eventually purge them out after a couple years.

[Tony D]

Ya miss the point. This thing holds the red light longer, if a car is attempting to beat the light, or can't/won't be able to stop in time.

 

No, I think YOU are missing the point: you don't know how much time is left on a green or yellow in the USA. THAT leads to running of the lights. "I can make it..."

 

Put the countdown timer visible like in numerous other countries, and YOU KNOW what is left.

 

Moving the time of the light is a far more expensive way to combat the uncertianty of not knowing how long the light will remain green, and running it either accidentally or on purpose.

 

Timers exist in the light system already, letting people know what is left is simply a matter of displaying that light timer in the light itself instead of a 'dumb light' where there is no knowing how long you have left.

 

When you see 90 seconds, there is no incentive to slow down, or to speed up when you are third back from the intersection.

 

Conversely, when you are going 60Kph and are 100m back from the light and you look up at that green and see "3, 2, 1..." you know there is no way to make it, and slow before they fixed time yellow (which then becomes your hold and intersection clear light, instead of an ersatz green to 'make it through' because you weren't paying attention driving up to the light to begin with.

 

Be honest, how many times have you looked up at a green light, and didn't have a CLUE how long it has been on, or how long you had till it turned to yellow? Hell, in california the only light you KNOW is a set time is a yellow, as it's legislated to be on for one second for every 10mph of legal posted speed limit. And that only works if you see it turn yellow and start counting.

 

Showing the timer is the next logical step. Legnthening a light which nobody knows the time of to begin with seems to me to incentivize redlight running. Dumbing down the driving task for those not paying attention and never knowing how long they have on a green---just give them more time that they never knew about to begin with.

 

Posting the timer would seem to have the opposite effect.

 

BTW, current redlight cameras generally stop working after a second or so of red light. Run the red 3 seconds after it's red...and they don't snap your photo. Kind of defeats the purpose of a stated 'red light camera'---seems to me THOSE are the guys you want to nail for running the light...not a guy who enters the intersection 0.4 second after an interminate timed length light turned red. At least with a countdown timer the existing cameras then have a valid footing to stand on: it's not longer an inadvertent light runner you get, it's a clear cut "you knew how much time you had and chose to ignore it" ticket.

 

Moving the light time...just another LCD solution to the dumbed-down driving public that isn't paying attention already.

 

I'd rather know EXACTLY what time was left and make an informed decision to stop or continue on, rather than hoping I catch they yellow light so I can then start counting on my own...

[B00STDZ]

I thought about replying to this thread but it feels too political. Although I will say I disagree with this big brother movement of your life being monitered every second to make sure you dont do something "stupid".

[cygnusx1]

Me too, I am against getting political, and big brother for that matter, but this is about supposed evil technology being put to good use instead. Tony, the shot clock is already used at crosswalks all over NYC. This is more about drunks, inattentive drivers, toasted brakes, and just plain old bad judgment, which in most cases, government controlled, digital, red lights, tattooed to the back of their eyelids won't help. We just lost a member over at CTZCC due to someone running a red light at the last second. This would have easily saved him.

Edited February 18, 2011 by cygnusx1

[Tony D]

Giving drivers information is not a bad thing.

Making the roads 'automatic' to reward those inattentive drivers feeds upon itself IMO.

 

I hear about 'collision avoidance' systems in new cars that automatically apply the brakes if you get too close to another car. That watch lane position and 'correct' the driver.

 

Seems to me those people shouldn't be driving, not catered to in a vehicle.

 

Seems almost anti-evolutionary. Eliminates Darwins theory...

 

I just happen to have spent most of the last month watching lights count down and it makes so much more sense than a dumb light that you have no clue when it will change.

 

And when it turns red and you see "199" you know you may as well put it in "N" set the parking brake, or hell turn the engine off...you ain't going anywhere fast!

 

 

Another way to illustrate it is ask how many times you have watched a light turn green from some distance away, and continued on only to see maybe a 4 second green and then yellow and red and then have to brake instead of coast up to the intersection? Some lights ALREADY alter their timing based on traffic patterns so that leads to more uncertianty and consequently more incidences of 'running' a light.

[Leon]

Tony makes complete sense. In SF, some crosswalks have the timers and I alter my driving pattern depending on how much time I have. If I see that there's no way I can make it, I coast up to the intersection in gear, saving gas. It really does take the uncertainty out of intersections and it saves on gas and brake linings. The core of the problem lies in stupid, inattentive drivers. But that's for another thread and forum altogether...

[Tony D]

I find it interesting they put a timer on the CROSSWALK and not the lights which controll three-ton metal missiles that require some advance warning to stop.

 

I love it when the light at the crosswalk is at "10" and counting down across six lanes of traffic and granny decides that she can make it and steps out into the crosswalk at "7"... Doesn't even make the center island before the "Dont Walk" sign comes on...but it's only flashing, so there she goes across the second three lanes. So all the people that left the light to turn left are hung in the intersection now...

 

Elevated crosswalks, or UNDERGROUND crossings make more sense to keep pedestrians from impeding traffic flow.

 

I just find it interesting the people who have the easiest decision to make get the most information, and those with the most complex stopping parameters are kept in the dark till the last second.

 

Does that seem ironic (or is that 'moronic'?) to anybody else?

[stravi757]

Tony makes complete sense. In SF, some crosswalks have the timers and I alter my driving pattern depending on how much time I have. If I see that there's no way I can make it, I coast up to the intersection in gear, saving gas. It really does take the uncertainty out of intersections and it saves on gas and brake linings. The core of the problem lies in stupid, inattentive drivers. But that's for another thread and forum altogether...

 

I second that. Thats what I love about driving ion the the city(And THE ONLY thing I like about driving in the city) Those timed lights are aweosme. You know whether you are going to make the light or not, you never get any unexpected yellow lights when a traffic line is going through an intersection and just randomly turns yellow.

[cygnusx1]

The inattentive driver would be rewarded with a subpoena to appear in court instead of a manslaughter charge....Basically removed from the road peacefully instead of with a spatula. The real reward is to the car that would have pulled into the intersection on the green.

Edited February 18, 2011 by cygnusx1

[Tony D]

UNfortunately that is not the reality cygnus. It's a very small portion of a fraction, of a percentage. If that.

 

Nobody is going off the road because of this. If you want the REALITY (and here comes the political) you get tagged for going 'through an intersection' 0.4 seconds after a light turned red. And on their photos they got you dead to rights. It's only on the VIDEO (that they encourage you to view) do you realize they are full of BS, you DID stop like you recalled. You were stopped when the light turned red. Then you proceeded, but the guy in the lane next to you ran the red light like a big dog.

 

So you send in the extortion money ($386) and protest not guilty. They promise the adjudication will be in less than 90 days. SIX MONTHS LATER you get your money back telling you, indeed you never should have been cited in the first place.

 

You then go on a guerilla campaign where you paintball the traffic cams, put matte black lettering on posts that say 'Fight your Bullsh*t Ticket' so it's visible in EVERY ticket they issue at that same intersection, and then spend late evenings in a 'sanitized' vehicle wearing a Ron Regan mask running red lights near your house to gauge what the camera does. And then you realize they shut off after about 2 seconds of Red.

 

I thought it was a 'red light camera' --- Aren't people running STALE RED LIGHTS (like 3 seconds after the light turns red) the PROBLEM more than a guy that stops and enters a clear intersection 0.4 seconds after a light turns red? Or even less time after it turns red?

 

WHY NOT give the drivers a visual cue what time remains on the green light? FAR more productive than altering a already bullsh*t system that contravenes the constitution---you know, that little section about 'innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law'? Where's my use of the $386 for those 6 months? Why do I have to pay to contest the ticket?

 

Subpoonea? How about this: I see one, I shoot it with a paintball late at night and screw up their bullsh*t games? Sounds about as fair as getting tagged by bullsh*t tickets THREE TIMES in one year, and EVERY TIME GETTING FOUND INNOCENT.

 

At one time, I had ALL THREE TICKETS up in the air. The last one at 0.4 seconds was the last straw. The government had the use of over $1100 of my money THAT I HAD TO PAY TO KEEP DRIVING and in EVERY case I was found NOT GUILTY.

 

How about they think there is a problem, they put a cop there, and he writes you a ticket. This automated Orwellian 1984 Crap doesn't work. Not in my experience. I feel really sorry for the poor sheeple who think this is a GOOD idea, or worse yet, can't afford to take the day off and pay the MBA-Derived EXTORTION FEE of $386 just to be done with it, and perhaps pay another fee for 'traffic school' so they can keep their insurance rates down.

 

Yeah, I got a problem with automated traffic cams. I think I have good reason to be upset. I don't like people taking my money and keeping me from having access to it on a roll of the dice that I won't protest it.

 

Traffic Cams Bad? ABSOLUTELY!

[cygnusx1]

LOL. Tony, That's why in fact I would endorse the SAFETY use of traffic cams...heck paint the lens black or better yet, make it a blind sensor. I just want to pat the guy on the back that said:, "Hey look, we can see someone breaking the law, and instead of just generating revenue, let's actually use this crap to save an innocent life!"

 

Well, DUH! It's blatently ironic that "policing" was to protect and serve, and all of a sudden it's to pay bills, and now it's a revelation when someone says: "wow, look this thing for revenue, can actually be used for safety!"

 

 

 

 

OK now my next hero will be the guy that says, "forget the damn camera aspect, just hold the light red if you got an anomaly coming through." Countdown timers are a great idea, so we won't have to brake, or gun-it, for no good reason when approaching a distant green light.

 

 

[Tony D]

"The inattentive driver would be rewarded with a subpoena to appear in court instead of a manslaughter charge...."

 

That is not what the article says, and goes right along with the existing stopping of the 2 or 3 second red light runner. It's not the guys that come through right when the light changes... it's the guys that boil through with cars in the intersection. Neither of these systems stop that.

 

Neither will the countdown timer.

 

Inattentive drivers are one thing. The countdown timer will help those, and that is the largest margin out there.

 

Going after frsctions is diminishing returns. Hate to say it but 'not every life is sacred'... There are accidents that you should not try to preent, it becomes unreasonable to try and do so, and there is nothing you can do change those outcomes. It's random variation, special circumstances.

 

The real answer is better driver education, and stricter licensing of drivers. Not dumbing down everything to the nth degree.

 

I can go with giving people the information on how much time they have. But changing the light pattern...in conjunction without letting other drivers know the light timing has changed? Don't like that idea at all.

 

I think 'the other countries' where it's been tested have far higher standards for getting a license than here, and therefore the experience will be vastly different than what we would get here in the USA.

 

Think of it as giving a lit match to an EOD Tech in front of a Dynamite Bunker, and giving one to Beavis and Butthead.

 

Both guys have the same lit match, what the results will be 30 seconds later will be vastly different!

 

"huh huh huh, hey butthead, the light changed colors."

"Cool!" Vroooom!

 

I mean, these people are out there!

 

[Tony D]

Why when I look at that, I see him asking "That got a Hemi?"

I just see him in an old Dodge...

[cygnusx1]

If he was at a red light that just turned green, and I saw a semi coming fast across the intersection, I might not put my arm out and yell LOOK OUT!

 

 

 

 

This discussion reminds me of that joke...

 

Two men were driving down a city street, as they approach a red stop light, the man driving speeds up and drives through a red light.

Shocked, the passenger yells, "What are you doing!"

The driver just responds in a casual tone, "That's the way my brother drives."

As they continue down the street, they again came upon another red stop light and again the drive speeds through the intersection.

Again the passenger yells, "What are you doing!"

The driver says, "That's the way my brother drives".

Not too long after that, they came upon a green light.

The driver quickly slams on his breaks and comes to a complete stop just before the intersection.

The angry passenger screams, "It's a green light!"

The driver says, "Yes, but my brother might be coming the other way!"