brainstorming s130 build

[Calico]

So i have been on the boards frequently this yr trying to put together a plan for a new project. im looking for, decent mpg, reliability, stelar handling characteristics, aerodynamics & low 11's high 10s w/ a mild build. here is what ive come up with please add any input of suggestions. Looking to start aroud $3500 just to get the car running(stage I)

 

Goal- Daily driver, Cruiser, drag

1983 Datsun s130 @ 2800lbs

 

Stage I.

A. chassis prep

gutted doors, 79zx manual windows cranks & locks,

Remove emissions, Power antenna & motor, rear mount battery

 

B. Conversion

Fbody L36/4l60e, GTP block, driveshaft, Walbro 340 fuel pump,

Radiator, electric fans, 2.5 exhaust,

wire harness graft, (speedo + Tach conversion?)

 

Stage II

A. Body

Fiber glass hood & Euro/jdm bumpers

B. Interior

86 Toyota mr2 manual seats

C. drive train

Z31 5 lug conversion

R-200 z31 rear & Z32 wheels

Slicks+15 alum racing wheels

D. Performance/ Custom fabricated parts

Turbo, down pipe, turbo manifolds, intercooler,injectors

E. Weight removal

A/C, manual (non-power assist) re-circulating steering box

Off 77’ Datsun 810 power steering

 

Stage III

A. Body/Custom fabricated parts

Paint, Frame Notch, tubs & Roll cage

[BluDestiny]

Keep the majority of your emmission stuff if until you plan a swap or go all out with the motor. It helps you with your MPG. Also your car is going to be way lighter than 2800 lbs. I have a 280zx with a stripped interior(sound deadening gone and every panel from the front seats back) with 2 sparco seats and no PS or AC and it weighs 2600 with a full tank of gas.

 

As soon as your do the swap I feel like you would remove the AC and PS anyway, and why bother with euro bumpers? Just get FG parts for those if you really want to save weight.

 

You also didn't mention anything about what you're going to do for suspension, (for the start) and that can be a ton of money right there. If you're just going to roll on tokico springs and shocks until you tub it then that would save you some cash, unless you want to go all out coilovers in the beginning.

 

Weight should be the first thing you are (for the most part) totally concerned with for dragging, and since you will have the engine out if will give you down time to strip the car.

Edited March 1, 2011 by BluDestiny

[Calico]

@ BluDestiny

 

1. I plan to run the Series II GM 3800 w/4l60e or 700r4 auto trans, which ever lends itself most availible. After i get it up an running i will be tubo/intercooling it with a moderate amout of boost.

 

2. I dont plan to strip the interior but i would like to get the weight down, ill mostliky look into those fiberglass bumpers but i dont wanna spend a ton. How does the car feel w/o power steering?

 

3. I plan to have the car be reliable for daily duties even though it wont be the main car i use. I will most likely go w/ tokico springs and shocks, i might not tub it, depending on the size slick i can fit out back on thsese chassis. Traction is the over all goal so if i can achieve that w/o some fancy set up that will be the way i go.

 

4. I want it to run 10s, so im guestimating that w/ a 2600lb weight it should only need around 440rwhp?

[BluDestiny]

It feels a little heavy, but when I got the car the PS lines were cut so it's normal to me. Some people like that more. As for wheel size you can fit 275s back there with little effort, just get the right backspacing. Also you might want to consider something stiffer in teh rear for dragging.

 

I'm actually planning on getting these as soon as I can:

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=66

 

Also this was my college car, got me to and from school(about 20 miles round trip) and I carried whatever the heck I wanted in it. I do wish I had my AC sometimes, but the power windows and mirrors are already enough for me haha

[Calico]

really 275s? hmm maybe i wont need to tub her immediatly

[Calico]

figured while i wait for more insight ill do some research on buildin a nice series II motor

[Calico]

Any1 know ways around the zx steering column? Flaming river, relocation ect? Could I use a universal cross member to mount the l36/67 motor & modify it as necessary? Also does anyone know if any other vendors besides Nismo who makes a LSD for the r200 rear? Is there any diff between the 4l60 & 700r4, which would be better for this type of build? On another note i read on one of John Scotts threads the s130 firewall is 3 inches forward than the s30 firewall, does that mean I could use the JTR kit to make puttin a 4.3 vortec motor a bolt in affair?

[Calico]

looked into the 4.3 motors but i think i,ll pass, not wat im lookin for as far as reliabilty

[sticky280zx]

ill just leave some tidbits here....a 79 zx will be your best bet (like you mentioned), but not ONLY for the doors. Manual everything saves weight, slicktop saves weight (only way they came), MANUAL steering (again the only way they came), AC/heat/dash/junk brackets/sound deadening/emissions/bumpers etc....and you will have a VERY light car.

 

Personally the front bumper gone with a lip looks ok to me, rear i would "shave" by just cutting/welding in new metal...those are obviously the cheapest options, but again will save you money and weight.

[Calico]

Sticky280zx-See i like the 79 zx & i even had a line on one for sale near me. Slick tops are nn ice but the problem is ima man who REALLY enjoys his Ttops. Plus id like a slightly newer chassis to start wit, id perfer an 83 2130 Turbo so i can get the R200 rear as well. To run 10s in the ZX i guesstimate ill only need around 400-450rwhp. On the motor i am planning that will be cake! I plan to more focus on traction & suspension. There was a thread on here that said the s130 had some sort of rear suspension issue over 400+hp. ill provide the link & u can let me know what u think?

[Calico]

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/95522-guess-the-280zx-turbo-rwhp-based-only-on-dyno-video/page__st__20

[Calico]

should this be moved in to the build section? I'm not getting the feedback i would have hoped for?

[BluDestiny]

I don't think it's that you aren't getting the feedback from not enough people seeing it, but you are asking for several different type of feedback at once. You are asking about engine when we have several different forums to ask around in, your asking about body and lightening which again is another forum. If you move this to the build forum it will probably die since hardly anyone looks at the s130 build forum.

 

Also don't expect a lot of feedback for this chassis simply because it isn't as popular as the s30, in my opinion, on this site.

 

Go check out the v8 forums and a bunch of your swap questions can be answered there.

[Calico]

thanx blu, i did get fustrate & post over on the v8 jawns but the closed my threads cause it wasnt v8 specfic. It looks like the lsx is a great option but idk ive always been a 6 cylinder man?! I appreciate the insight tho.

[69sroadster]

Calico, if you're willing to pay some $ and do some swap work why stop at the motor and tranny? Ditch the R-200 concept altogether and swap in a solid axle differential and tub whatever you need to. I know you'll lose some of the handling beauty, but you said you want to hit 10's and will be drag racing it. You can find a Ford 8.8" solid diff from an explorer with traction lock for cheap at many junk yards. They can take a decent amoung of abuse (with minor work) and there are tons of options for those that aren't expensive or hard to find either. Also since this is going to be basically a street/strip vehicle, look at what you can drop weight wise with ditching the glass windows. I don't know what rules you're going to have in your class, but if you're stripping it down that glass can weigh a lot. I also agree with ditching the dash and entire HVAC system. I had mine out to repair some stuff and was amazed how heavy some of those components were. Front seats are pretty hefty too. Look up the thread on here on how to do a coil over swap with S13/silvia/180sx/240sx parts. There are plenty of options with those suspensions to get stuff as well and still do it on the cheap. I don't know enough about those tranny's you mentioned to comment on them, or how much you'd have to do to get 450 hp from a 3.8 motor. I would think it wouldn't be hard to get the power on a good motor. Out of curiosity, what does the 3.8 weigh compared to some of the small block V-8's and why are you shying away from those? Do they just suck gas all the time more than you'd like or do you like having boost?

[Calico]

The r-200 will do for now, I will most likely upgrade the rear as the build progresses in the more complete levels/stages. Def a very good idea I was actually thinking about the mustang rear but the explorer would work. I would have to learn to weld, but that’s something I was planning on doin anyways over the summer break.

 

A lot of the rice boys escape my wrath w/ the ole I only auto cross so id like to be able to chase them to all sorts of track, no mercy & unrealities.

 

I want a fast street car, strip duty but I don’t wanna swap out the glass yet, I still wanna be able to daily drive it. I’ll use a lightened dash, barebones harness as well but I wanna retain the heat function, for those brisk nights. Im not sure wat ill do 4 seats tho but I was thinking mr2 seats. The 4l60e/700r4 are basically the same tranny. Basically a standard 4 spd w/ overdrive found in rwd pass cars & med to light duty trucks. The goal is to use common parts, and the 700r4 is a common part.

 

Next the series II is basically a modern version of the motor that came in the grand national. N/a it makes 220hp/198tq, supercharged it makes 280hp. They are quite efficient, extremely common & dirt cheap & found in 95-2004 buick, Pontiac, olds, chevy FWD pass cars. I have an 2000 olds intrigue, it has 165k miles & ive never done a single repair to it, it also bolts up to the 4l60e. To get 450hp is basically a turbo, down pipe, CAI, walbro 340 fp, 14psi & cooler. A l36/l67 weighs approx 360-400lbs. An iron block v8 should be around 550-600. I don’t wanna v8 cause they arent sleepers, a 3.8 turbo in a turbo 280zx wont sound suspicious, since they came w/ a turbo 2.8, where are a v8 rumble will. The 3.8 can be had complete from the u-pull it for $200 complete w/harness & all accessories. Also the series II gets near 30mpg & is so quiet you don’t know its on.

[Gollum]

If it's not going to be in competitive drag racing then the R200 is fine. If the goal is just to be able to take it to the track from time to time, the R200 is fine. You can even live with the open R200 until it really becomes a problem.

 

But if you're going to be in competitive drag racing, you'll want a better rear option all together. You'll have to run insanely high spring rates to keep rear end sag to a minimum.

 

Also don't forget that at many tracks if you're even into the 11's they'll want you to have a roll bar. You might have that planned already, but I didn't see it on your list.

 

I'd say keep the power steering. It'll be nice to have a the strip, especially if you run larger front tires and are running a smaller diameter steering wheel. Ditching the AC might be fine, depending on where you live and what you're comfortable with. I'd estimate for what you're planning you could have the weight down as low as 2500 or less very easily. My 81' slick top in nearly full trim, with AC and PS, Power windwos, etc weighs 2650. Add T-Tops and that'll jump to a good 2750 probably because the roof is much more reinforced. Even still, taking a T-Top model and removing those heavy bricks of bumpers, removing the AC, going for a FG Hood, and little things here and there will easily drop you 200#. At that point you can get into the 10's with as little as 375 hp which becomes very easy to attain in a street friendly fashion and even tuning it conservative towards the bottom end for good MPG.

 

As it's been stated, 275 will fit in the rear well without much work. I've seen larger fit, and I'd say with with careful suspension work and maybe rolling the fenders a bit you might be able to break the 300 mark. In the front 255 is the practical limit with stock suspension, and though you can add some more width with suspension mods, you'll be sacrificing turning radius caused by the TC rod. With careful attention to detail and rolling the fender I'd guess 275 as the practical limit in the front for a street driven car.

 

If you like the buick motor, go with it. The L28ET in the turbo models would probably get the job done just fine, but everyone's allowed to make their own choices when it comes to motors. I'm not a "one size fits all" kind of guy when it comes to motors and love the variety we get to see on this site. Another good turbo V6 option you can look into is the VG30ET motors. They can be had very cheap at the junkyards and have proven capable of 450+whp on completely stock longblocks. they're iron block like the buick, but is SOHC versus the pushrod L36. Benefit or hassle is your choice. Just thought I'd bring it up.

 

Overall these are great cars for what you're looking to do. Just get a motor in there that'll make the power and MPG you're looking for, and the rest should fall into place naturally as you get the suspension and chassis up to snuff. Keep the car light and brake options won't be a problem too.

[Calico]

every1 i appreciate pls keep it comin. I'm studyin for finals so ill check back in w/ a real response laterz

[Calico]

@ Gollum

I do plan to drag it maybe once a wk during the race season, but I also want it to be comfortable enough to take on a few cruises. I think ill go w/ the turbo model so I can get the r200. I wont be part of any circuits, I want it to be fast in street trim. I will prolly end up doing that rear end swap, any threads about swapping a solid axel in? Yeah I def plan on doing a full cage after I get the swap done in stage 2.

 

Hmmm ill keep that in mind w/ the ps, I plan to run 16†300zx wheels all the way around for street & 15x10 slicks when I race @ the track. 275 out back & 255s up front is more than enough tire, plus I can do the slicks when its time to run.

 

I’m from Pa, so it doesn’t get too terribly hot too long but that where the t-tops come into play. That’s great news about the 2500lbs or less too, yea ill look into swapping over to FG bumpers & hood, running an a/c delete pulley & as many manual options as I can get.

 

I’m shooting for low 10s if possible. Mpg is also very important case I drive a lot & I wanna get a lot of seat time in the car.

 

The l28et & VG30ET are cool & were good choices but they aren’t efficient enough 4 my build. 1st I want something newer & cheaper to get parts for, w/ incredible gas milage (my 2000 olds gets 29mpg) that makes more power, cheaper.

 

Here is a copy & paste directly from the moderator @ the series II l67 forum:

l67 build

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calico

hey my friend i saw u had some pretty good knowledge on buildin l67 series II stuff. I wanna put a series II motor in a Z car. I plan to run a l67/4l60e combo, w/fbody l36 intake & TB. Do you have any advice on problem areas in these set ups. I plan to make around 450 crank hp w/turbo intercooled.

 

There is not really any problem areas with most any series2 stuff. Your upper end gaskets are most likely a good thing to replace, LIM gasket / valve cover gaskets to be specific.

 

Electronics are very simple. You can run a fbody PCM file that will run the car without any tricks as long as you wire up most of the critical stuff like stock. When I do fiero's I hardly have to even take the stock harness apart when I add in the fiero connections. Tuning the turbo part is really simple, the only modification you might want to have is something similar to a maf translator that will give you the ability to flow as much air through the maf as you want. i provided a link to the one I use.

 

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...1066&catid=107

 

The horsepower side of things is cake. If you want to do a cam, you dont need much to support it aside from upgraded springs designed for a bit more lift and float resistance. There is a timing set upgrade that is normally recommended, but you can get by with stock if you run some lighter springs. HP is really unlimited to you, it really just depends on what turbo you want to run. I have been making a bit over 600whp for awhile on C16, with a factory stock longblock with a small cam upgrade. A few others I have setup with some smaller 60mm turbos on E85 that are up over 500whp, with stock cam and upgraded valvesprings. For a pump gas 380whp you will probably just need a 60mm ~ 55lb/m turbo, a decent intercooler setup, 92 octane, and modded 1.9 rockers with some LS6 valvesprings. For reliable 400+whp I would get a cam.... With a big turbo and a big intercooler, I have made 520whp on a PT6776 on 92 octane.

 

I am typically against meth injection, but I am sure you could use it to make more power on pump gas. Un intercooled stock engines with small turbo's people fairly consistently make 320-330whp, so it really goes to show the potential of a stock series2 platform.â€

 

 

This is why im gunnin 4 an Series II motor!!

Edited March 27, 2011 by Calico

[Tony D]

JDM bumpers are the same heavy pieces we have here in the US of A, no weight savings there!

 

If it's saving weight you want, it's the Euro Bumpers and brackets (not shocks) you want. They are diminsionally identical to the JDM and US Market bupers, you won't know you have them on there unless you look underneath. It's basically a sheetmetal C-Channel to hold the plastic bumper cover in place, and a couple of sheetmetal brackets to hold the c-channel/bumper covers in place!

 

Mark well the advice about how fast you want to go, get to a given speed and you get booted from the track till you comply with safety regs. "Unless you know someone in a private track rental group..."

 

Don't laugh, $500 a day to make almost as many runs as you want with no 'imperial entanglements' is appealing to some!!!