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///M powered Z


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#1 grannyknot

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 02:29 AM

Well, I think I'm a step closer to my 240Z///M.

I let the ad for the 87/M6 lapse, just can't deal with one more lowballer.

The question now is do I sell my turn key Z that is finished and find another neglected Z to start over with or pull the L28 and tranny from this car and install the M goodies?

 

The money from the sale of my current Z would allow me to do any kind of build I could think of,

but then, I hate selling.

Chris



#2 260ZT

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 03:43 AM

This is a question I ask myself all the time. I've got 5 cars and in the back of my mind I know selling one would help do things to the others. But I just don't want to sell any of them.

#3 grannyknot

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 01:49 AM

Some progress, I have started parting out the M6 and have the s38 engine and trans out of the car and on the shop floor.

Now that it's out I can see that it's a bit wider and heavier then the L28 but I don't see that as a problem yet. It has a more pronounced lean to the to the passenger side as well but so far the only thing that looks like a possible problem is the shape of the oil pan, its quite different so may have to do some fabrication there or have a look at other oil pans that fit that block.

 

I need to pull the L28 from the Z now and get the s38 in there to see if this is going to fly, so far I'm optimistic.

Chris

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#4 TeemuM

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 09:41 AM

I think that you can use M30 oil pan. Some of those have rear sump.

Nice to see that someone else is also using BMW engine.


Edited by TeemuM, 06 June 2015 - 09:42 AM.


#5 Leon

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 07:54 PM

This would be a pretty cool and unique swap if you can pull it off!



#6 grannyknot

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 12:49 PM

A big set back, the oil pump pick up, oil pump and chain drive are all in the way. Even if I can find an M30 with rear sump and oil p/u I still have  the pump itself, sprocket and chain in the way.

Anyone with experience in dry sump or electric oil pumps, please jump in here!

I can use spacers like Ron did in his build, http://forums.hybrid...-bmw-m-powered/

to lower the main crossmember and steering rack but probably no more than 3/4".

It would be easy enough to remove the entire oil pump & p/u and fabricate an oil pan that gives the clearance i need but I have zero experience with alternate oil pumps.

Every other aspect is a go, it fits very well, some pics of todays work,

 

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#7 grannyknot

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 03:36 PM

I think I'm going to have to delete the stock oil pump, make a new, front shallow/ rear deep sump oil pan and do a remote wet sump oil pump arrangement like the diagram.

Can anyone see any possible problems with this idea?

 

The first pic is from the front of the car, does it look like the hood will clear the new engine?

The rest are pics of the engine in a lower position that I'm hoping for,

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#8 Six_Shooter

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 04:20 PM

If that cover clears it will be extremely close. If you didn't want to bolt the hood back on to check, you can use some cardboard or other stiff, but easily cut material, cut to the shape of the hood at that point lengthwise, and then used to check clearance. You may need to make a few templates along the length to know for sure. We have some thin, but pretty strong cardboard at work that I believe is called "patterning cardboard", at least that's what we refer to it as. It makes life so simple when trying to make patterns, since it's thin, about the thickness of about 4 pages of construction paper, fairly large, about 2' by 3', and can easily be taped together, bent and holds it's shape nicely. Baring getting your hands on some of that a few taped together pizza boxes can do the trick as well. ;) lol

Cutting the firewall and moving the engine back not an option? I know that might entail what may seem like a lot of work, but may be the best solution overall and may end up being less work than trying to rework an oiling system, unless there's already an aftermarket option for that. Where does the shifter land in relation to the stock shifter hole?

Can you get some pictures of the original chassis for this engine? Where does the front cradle/crossmember/suspension fit in relation to the engine in that chassis? There might be some parts or ideas to use from that.


Z: 152391 Project Thread
Typhony: Project Thread

My rear view mirror doesn't have a zoom feature.

#9 z-ya

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 02:38 PM

This swap was done by Ron Tyler in the past. It is not an easy swap for sure. He was able to pull it off.

 

http://forums.hybrid...ler#entry854198


Edited by z-ya, 16 June 2015 - 02:41 PM.

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#10 TeemuM

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:10 PM

There was used S52 engine that has rear sump. That engine fits S30 engine bay like it was designed to be there.



#11 grannyknot

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:37 PM

Six Shooter,  If I have to cut a hole in the hood an and fab up a "speed bump" to cover it I will, but that is months from now.

Can't cut into the fire wall as I would lose the wiper motor to the back of the throttle bodies and air box.

The M6 that the engine came from has it's crossmember 12" farther back then the Z.

 

z-ya, Teeum, Ron's s52 engine had some other options for oil pans, my s38 has only one pan so I'm just going to have to cut it up and rebuild it to fit.

 

I have picked up a slab of plate steel 12" x 30" and will drill, tap and mount the oil pan on it before cutting out the offending bits then build a mock up of the pan I need out of cardboard and take that to my aluminum welding guy. After the outside of the pan is finished I'll pop it into an oven at, say 400F

for a couple of hours and then let it cool off slowly in the oven overnight. Hopefully that will lessen the stress and strain so when I un-bolt it from the steel plate it will still be flat.

I'm just starting to learn aluminum welding and it will be a while before I can handle a project like this so I'm going to let a Pro take this job.

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Edited by grannyknot, 20 June 2015 - 02:38 PM.


#12 grannyknot

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 12:59 AM

I hope I haven't just ruined a perfectly good oil pan.

 

 

 

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#13 Six_Shooter

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 01:48 PM

It's always fun to ruin a perfectly good anything... and then rebuild it better. ;)


Z: 152391 Project Thread
Typhony: Project Thread

My rear view mirror doesn't have a zoom feature.

#14 grannyknot

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 02:28 PM

I took the mock up oil pan to my aluminum welding guy today and he said "no problem" so that is a big relief.

I should have it back in 2 weeks so that gives lots of time to catch up on stuff I have been neglecting.

The first pics are the mock up pan and then the test fitting in the engine bay, there may still be an interference with the steering rod u joint but it will be much easier to repair a notch that needs cutting out then it would be to try and build the notch in. 

 

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#15 grannyknot

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:31 PM

Got the oil pan back today, very nice work! This guy makes it look so easy. I did a bit more modifying of the pan and notched out the recess for the steering rod u joint, I'll take it back to Ben again and have him patch it up.

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#16 grannyknot

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 02:53 PM

Finally got the pan back from the Powder Coaters, he wasn't coating it though. I had him take the pan up to 650*F for a couple of hrs and then turn off the oven and let it cool slowly over a 14 hr period.

Now I don't for sure that helped ease any stress in the aluminum but when I unbolted the pan from the steel plate there was only about 1 mm difference from one end to the other, I'm pretty happy about that!

I did the test with methyl hydrate and also with hot water, no leaks of any kind :lol:

I'm tempted to cover the steel plate I was using with emery cloth and work the pan back and forth until it is truly flat again.

Both pics are with no bolts holding the pan down.

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#17 grannyknot

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:38 PM

The pan is finally done, dip stick holder welded in and I did grind it flat with the steel plate and emery cloth. These are some test fit pics with the modified oil pan installed, everything fits under the hood but it's still little tight around the steering rack.

I may still have to cut up the crossmember and drop the steering rack down 3/4".

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#18 grannyknot

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 02:12 PM

I thought I would be taking measurements for the engine mounts but I'm a long way from that, there are a few of interferences  that I'll have to get rid of first. The sway bar will be easy, just drop it down 1/2" with spacers, I'll have to shave a bit off the side of the D/S engine mount to clear the oil filter, the P/S floor pan will have to be notched out to clear the exhaust pipes and a heat shield of some kind will be needed to

protect the P/S engine bay and wiring harness.

 

The driveshaft angle looks like it might cause some headaches but atleast I have three u joints to spread out the differences.

 

There are definitely easier bmw engines to swap in than this one

and if I run into too many more issues I may have to re-think things.

I don't want to compromise the Z or driveability, but I am a long way from giving up.

Chris

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#19 grannyknot

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 01:28 AM

I have lowered the just the steering rack 7/8" which will solve a couple of problems, give me more room to match up the drive shaft angle and I won't have to notch out the P/S floor pan now.

The steering tie rods will be pushing/pulling almost parallel to the rack, not sure yet how that is going to affect handling.

Any advise ?

 

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#20 mizle

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 06:36 PM

Nice build!




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