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grannyknot

///M powered Z

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Well, I think I'm a step closer to my 240Z///M.

I let the ad for the 87/M6 lapse, just can't deal with one more lowballer.

The question now is do I sell my turn key Z that is finished and find another neglected Z to start over with or pull the L28 and tranny from this car and install the M goodies?

 

The money from the sale of my current Z would allow me to do any kind of build I could think of,

but then, I hate selling.

Chris

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Some progress, I have started parting out the M6 and have the s38 engine and trans out of the car and on the shop floor.

Now that it's out I can see that it's a bit wider and heavier then the L28 but I don't see that as a problem yet. It has a more pronounced lean to the to the passenger side as well but so far the only thing that looks like a possible problem is the shape of the oil pan, its quite different so may have to do some fabrication there or have a look at other oil pans that fit that block.

 

I need to pull the L28 from the Z now and get the s38 in there to see if this is going to fly, so far I'm optimistic.

Chris

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A big set back, the oil pump pick up, oil pump and chain drive are all in the way. Even if I can find an M30 with rear sump and oil p/u I still have  the pump itself, sprocket and chain in the way.

Anyone with experience in dry sump or electric oil pumps, please jump in here!

I can use spacers like Ron did in his build, http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/79806-rt260-bmw-m-powered/

to lower the main crossmember and steering rack but probably no more than 3/4".

It would be easy enough to remove the entire oil pump & p/u and fabricate an oil pan that gives the clearance i need but I have zero experience with alternate oil pumps.

Every other aspect is a go, it fits very well, some pics of todays work,

 

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I think I'm going to have to delete the stock oil pump, make a new, front shallow/ rear deep sump oil pan and do a remote wet sump oil pump arrangement like the diagram.

Can anyone see any possible problems with this idea?

 

The first pic is from the front of the car, does it look like the hood will clear the new engine?

The rest are pics of the engine in a lower position that I'm hoping for,

Pluming of remote filter - Wet sump.pdf

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If that cover clears it will be extremely close. If you didn't want to bolt the hood back on to check, you can use some cardboard or other stiff, but easily cut material, cut to the shape of the hood at that point lengthwise, and then used to check clearance. You may need to make a few templates along the length to know for sure. We have some thin, but pretty strong cardboard at work that I believe is called "patterning cardboard", at least that's what we refer to it as. It makes life so simple when trying to make patterns, since it's thin, about the thickness of about 4 pages of construction paper, fairly large, about 2' by 3', and can easily be taped together, bent and holds it's shape nicely. Baring getting your hands on some of that a few taped together pizza boxes can do the trick as well. ;) lol

Cutting the firewall and moving the engine back not an option? I know that might entail what may seem like a lot of work, but may be the best solution overall and may end up being less work than trying to rework an oiling system, unless there's already an aftermarket option for that. Where does the shifter land in relation to the stock shifter hole?

Can you get some pictures of the original chassis for this engine? Where does the front cradle/crossmember/suspension fit in relation to the engine in that chassis? There might be some parts or ideas to use from that.

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Six Shooter,  If I have to cut a hole in the hood an and fab up a "speed bump" to cover it I will, but that is months from now.

Can't cut into the fire wall as I would lose the wiper motor to the back of the throttle bodies and air box.

The M6 that the engine came from has it's crossmember 12" farther back then the Z.

 

z-ya, Teeum, Ron's s52 engine had some other options for oil pans, my s38 has only one pan so I'm just going to have to cut it up and rebuild it to fit.

 

I have picked up a slab of plate steel 12" x 30" and will drill, tap and mount the oil pan on it before cutting out the offending bits then build a mock up of the pan I need out of cardboard and take that to my aluminum welding guy. After the outside of the pan is finished I'll pop it into an oven at, say 400F

for a couple of hours and then let it cool off slowly in the oven overnight. Hopefully that will lessen the stress and strain so when I un-bolt it from the steel plate it will still be flat.

I'm just starting to learn aluminum welding and it will be a while before I can handle a project like this so I'm going to let a Pro take this job.

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Edited by grannyknot

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I took the mock up oil pan to my aluminum welding guy today and he said "no problem" so that is a big relief.

I should have it back in 2 weeks so that gives lots of time to catch up on stuff I have been neglecting.

The first pics are the mock up pan and then the test fitting in the engine bay, there may still be an interference with the steering rod u joint but it will be much easier to repair a notch that needs cutting out then it would be to try and build the notch in. 

 

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Finally got the pan back from the Powder Coaters, he wasn't coating it though. I had him take the pan up to 650*F for a couple of hrs and then turn off the oven and let it cool slowly over a 14 hr period.

Now I don't for sure that helped ease any stress in the aluminum but when I unbolted the pan from the steel plate there was only about 1 mm difference from one end to the other, I'm pretty happy about that!

I did the test with methyl hydrate and also with hot water, no leaks of any kind :lol:

I'm tempted to cover the steel plate I was using with emery cloth and work the pan back and forth until it is truly flat again.

Both pics are with no bolts holding the pan down.

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The pan is finally done, dip stick holder welded in and I did grind it flat with the steel plate and emery cloth. These are some test fit pics with the modified oil pan installed, everything fits under the hood but it's still little tight around the steering rack.

I may still have to cut up the crossmember and drop the steering rack down 3/4".

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I thought I would be taking measurements for the engine mounts but I'm a long way from that, there are a few of interferences  that I'll have to get rid of first. The sway bar will be easy, just drop it down 1/2" with spacers, I'll have to shave a bit off the side of the D/S engine mount to clear the oil filter, the P/S floor pan will have to be notched out to clear the exhaust pipes and a heat shield of some kind will be needed to

protect the P/S engine bay and wiring harness.

 

The driveshaft angle looks like it might cause some headaches but atleast I have three u joints to spread out the differences.

 

There are definitely easier bmw engines to swap in than this one

and if I run into too many more issues I may have to re-think things.

I don't want to compromise the Z or driveability, but I am a long way from giving up.

Chris

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I have lowered the just the steering rack 7/8" which will solve a couple of problems, give me more room to match up the drive shaft angle and I won't have to notch out the P/S floor pan now.

The steering tie rods will be pushing/pulling almost parallel to the rack, not sure yet how that is going to affect handling.

Any advise ?

 

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Been a while since I updated this, I sold the early Z so all my attention is back on the MZ now.

I got the throttle bodies torn down, cleaned and coated with Por15 Glisten, very tough stuff.

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Here is the 1972 Z that will be the MZ, later after I get the the driveline fitted I'll be taking the shell down to the chemical strippers to have it dipped, that will save me months of cleaning and stripping and hopefully will get the smell of mouse piss out of the car.

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I got the engine test rig built and have almost finished the wiring to get the engine running then I'll need to integrate the Datsun harness so the two work together.

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The Speedhut gauges arrived and they fit perfectly into the gutted housings of the gauges I am replacing.post-28202-0-40529800-1465772486_thumb.jpgpost-28202-0-24815100-1465772516_thumb.jpg

Edited by grannyknot

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You'll be very happy with the Glisten PC, Chris.  I did my Mikunis with the stuff just over a year ago, and while I was changing the venturi in them tonight I gave them a good look over and wipe down - they still look exactly like they did the day I coated them, no flaking, no yellowing, perfection!  Great product.  

Smart work on the test rig, should save your back from a lot of pain, and streamline the wiring process quite a bit!  

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Smart work on the test rig, should save your back from a lot of pain, and streamline the wiring process quite a bit!  

Thanks guys, you know even with the everything exposed on the test rig with easy access to every part and wire it's still a feat of patience and concentration to run through every wiring path and system. I think it would have a been a bit of a nightmare to have just dropped the engine in and then try and figure it all out. I think I may be able to start the engine up by the weekend, just have to wire the gauges in now .

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I got the engine turning over and figured out that a lost burglar alarm wire was preventing power from getting to the main relay but now the fuel pump relay is being difficult, I have pwr on #30 and pwr on #86 but not #87, I can jumper between #86 and #87 and the pump works fine, I have tried 4 known working relays with the same result,  I'm shaking my head. The last pic is the diagram of the bmw wires coming into the 240Z, now I'm thinking maybe that #3 Injection signal is connected to the fuel relay some how.

I don't have the bmw instrument cluster anymore so I not really sure why the injection signal in needed inside the cab.

I know it looks like a rats nest of wires but they are all secure and wrapped. The fire extinguisher canister is actually a pressurized pre-oiler.

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