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Drax240z

Moderators and Administrators on a short fuse

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Regarding the "all Nissan"post example...

 

IMHO... The goal of keeping your Hybrid all Nissan does not violate the intent of HybridZ. Brad's Q45 Z is a good example of something we all agree fits the mold here. The problem is when a builder with an "all Nissan" goal feels that others should share the same goal and expresses those feelings on this site.

 

This is just another derivation of "Marque Bigotry" and we've all seen that on the back windows of pickup trucks where that stupid kid is peeing on the logo of some other brand. Its just as asinine and stupid when typed on a message board.

 

I'm a little confused by these two paragraphs. I totally agree that it's asinine to say "Ford sucks"' date=' show a graphic of someone peeing on a Chevy bowtie symbol, or to say "and I can keep it all Nissan". They are all illogical things to me - the air and fuel can not read the label on the engine, and whether some want to believe it or not, no brand or country has a corner on producing a significantly inferior selection of engines. (Heck, the next engine going in my Z has 2 parts from GM - cylinder block and oil pan, and I could have bought aftermarket versions of those too!)

 

I just fail to see how "Keeping everything Nissan while you're at it" should make any difference to anyone - the air and fuel sure don't care!

 

On top of that, Rule #1 states:

 

"1. The purpose of this site is to discuss TECHNICAL topics that pertain to the modification of the Datsun/Nissan Z cars (240Z, 260Z, 280Z, 300ZX, 350Z). No thoughtful modification that enhances performance or styling will be put down. [b']The philosophy is one of "parts is parts" - it doesn't matter what automaker originally made the parts, if you think that using those parts on your Z will add to it's performance or cosmetic appeal.[/b] But the emphasis is on FUNCTION, not the addition of graphics, wings, etc. to only make the Z LOOK like it is a high performance car. However, everyone has their own ideas of what stylish modifications look good or bad. "

 

(I added bold to emphasize the part I was referring to.)

 

Now if someone has issue with that rule, then they are at odds with me on this topci and with what I believe the general premise of Hybridz.org.

 

In March when I had my 240Z on a chassis dyno there was a team from SLP there testing a highly modified, supercharged Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. I tow my 240Z behind a Ford F350 pickup and its was parked next to the GTP as the Pontiac was rolled off the dyno.

 

I commented to the Pontiac owner how nice his car looked and sounded. His reply to me was that he was embarassed to have his beautiful car next to a POS Ford towing a rice burner. I told him that he could go do something physically impossible with himself and then proceeeded to put down 50 more horsepower on my first pull then his SLP Pontiac did after three hours of tuning.

 

Marque bigotry is just stupid.

 

That's pretty funny. SLP had to get womped by a little old ricer Z car! I hope it got rubbed in their faces!

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Also, some "keep it Nissan" members are not bashing anyone, they are stating an opinion, nothing more. it seems that some people are very sensitive to that, and need to relax just a little. BUT, I totally agree though, that anyone that pushed his or her beliefs, be it all Nissan or all V8 should be banned or put on warning.

 

If you mean I'm very sensitive to it, yes I am. As johnc pointed out, it's called Marque Bigotry, and it's against the Rule #1 of this site. I feel like SOMEBODY has to watch to make sure that we don't let HybridZ slip down that slippery slope, as it has begun to lately. To say "keep it Nissan" is no different than to say "anything but Nissan sucks", in my opinion. It adds nothing to the technical content of the subject.

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Pete,

 

I was not specifically pointing to anyone, just bringing up something. :oops:

 

And marquee bigotry should not be tolerated, but somebody saying that they would prefer to keep "their" own swaps all Nissan, and another person saying that "Ford sucks and anyone else that puts anything but a Nissan engine in a Z is a moron", are two very different things.

 

Anyhow, Unfortunately, this is what growth does. This is a popular place lately, and its best to accept the growth, but with limits. If you stifle the growth, its possible to cut out the best part of Being a member of Hybridz.org.....soaking up new info and ideas!

 

These are just my opinions, the founders of this site can do whatever they please, and they have no obligations to satisfy anyone. But seeing as how this site is home to so many different enthusiasts, but with on common goal, it would be a shame to alienate some of them. Chances are, just like the founders of this site, We all came here for a reason...the other sites just didn’t fit the bill, and were possibly alienating them as well.

 

 

G'night all!

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Guest Carrman

Guys, I've been reading the replies to this thread with great interest. Of all the Z sites on the web, I have to say this is by far the most informative of all of them when it comes to modifying the Z. The other sites seem to specialize in "how can I fix my Z" as opposed to the "how do I make my Z faster" emphasis we have here. This is a good thing....... I am concerend though about the proposed changes, but have faith that the right thing will be done. I know and understand fully that the admin folks have had a gut full of the recent bs we have seen here, and I can see why they feel it's time to act. I just hope though that whatever actions are taken will not prevent any valuable information from being posted here that might be needed, be it RB swaps, turbos, Chevy V8's, etc. I know the roots of this site was for the V8 swap people, and I respect that, but please don't forget us "other" folk, be it the turbo people, V6 people, RB people, etc...... We need this site too!

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Pete,

 

Everyone has different goals for the hybrid they are building. Some have an "all Nissan" goal for whatever reason (preference, rules, bigotry) and that's fine 'cuz here at HybridZ we don't "require" a member to use specific alternative parts in the development of their hybrid. When things cross the line is when a person espouses their goals as fit for others.

 

I'm a good example. My car has a Nissan L6 engine because the rules required it at the time I was building the car. That was one of the goals in building my car and I CERTAINLY don't encourage, justify, proclaim, potificate, or demand that others follow a similar path when building their hybrids - it cost me a buttload of money to 300+ hp out of an NA L6.

 

So, the fact that my car is basically "all Nissan" doesn't get me in trouble here because I'm not demanding others follow the same path. I think that's the "line of demarcation" that I have not crossed.

 

Plus its cool to beat up on Chebbies at the track... :wink:

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John, I certainly agree that is the prudent line of demarcation between marque bigotry and just doing what you want/need to. I just have a problem with the tone that the "all Nissan" crowd uses when they say such things - the last example is probably not the best.

 

Years ago I sat through dinner with a Z person I just met (but knew on line for some time). During the entire chat, this person kept saying, "plus, it's a Nissan part", etc. My mention of any other OE or aftermarket part was always rebuffed, even though the cost or performance was maybe superior (most of the discussion was about brakes).

 

This type of "tone" is what I object to listening to, even if the person is not trying to ram their point of view down my throat. Maybe it's because I just don't see the logic in that point of view (call me Spock) or because I don't like hearing/reading the jabs between the lines, but this annoys me. Call it my character fault, if you like. But the idea behind this site was to get away from all that.

 

Some of the people that post on HybridZ who are all-Nissan types know better than to outwardly write marque-bigotted posts and carefully craft their words. Others who either don't care or aren't familiar with some of the founders' sensitivities to this post blatant marque-bigotted or L6-bigotted or anti-American-engine stuff and feel the wrath.

 

I know that to some people reading these threads lately, I might be sounding over-sensitive to this issue, but again, many of us here invested time and energy into this site because we wanted a friendly place to talk about modding the Z without bigotted posts. (Yes the bigotry goes both ways, and I have seen the V8-only bigotry decrease due to posts about it from the management.) It used to be a very friendly place for us to hang and many of us enjoyed that. But the undertone of L6, marque and Japanese engine bigotry has increased in the last months, and I (and I believe others) have come to feel less comfortable at our own little party on the Internet.

 

Just like you didn't like the SLP guy jabbing your truck and Z car, I don't think that if I was at a HybridZ party or gathering I'd feel comfortable hearing someone say some of the half or not concealed bigotted things I've been reading. And that's also a premise of this site - that, if nothing else the originators of this site and those who share their views have a COMFORTABLE place to hang.

 

I agree that tougher and more moderation can keep this in check. But I felt it was time I aired my views on where we are heading with this site. It's become too much like the places I stay away from, and that bothers me. Hopefully these discussions will remedy that.

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I for one as a long time poster.. here and an old poster from zcar.com zdriver.com I love this site.

 

It is by far the most tolerant and inteligent site I've been privilaged to be a part of.

 

I agree with reducing some of the forums, and consolidating some.. there is no VG30ET swapper forum here, and I make out just fine.

 

grouping some of the forums together is also a good idea.. the exhaust forum, efi/carb, and some of the miscelanious forums at the bottom of the forum list (can't recall the names..sorry)

 

We still need a kind of a general forum as well. There have been some extremely emotional life events occur for many members here.. some good and some bad, and I'm am extremely proud of the fact that many members can actually speak of personal issues, and not get sandbagged by other members.. I personally have enjoyed this site, and it has helped me keep sane when my life takes a wild turn..(good or bad)

 

I feel this is one of the closest knit groups I have been a part of..and its pretty incredible, when you consider that we chat with people in multiple countries, timezones, cultures etc....

 

 

I can see the need to reduce repetition in forums, and many people post questions in inappropriate forums so they can get exposure to the maximum viewers..

 

RB's for example could go back where they were in the alternate 6 cyl forum... that can cover all 6cyl swaps no matter what the make..

 

The high tech forum is just fine for some of the off the wall ideas..thinking outside the box..outside common sense as well... its a great place for wild ideas..you'll never know if something is possible if everyone assumes "it can't be done"...for ex..who would have thought in a million years, that a 1990 toyota 4 runner caliper would work with an 84 300zx rotor, on a 1970-1978 (northamerican) Z???

 

I do agree as well as there has been a huge increase in the # of idiot posts. Pop culture has seen to this, and it is something we are going to have to live with.. how we deal with it is important...I have watched good web sites deterioriate to nothing when the idiots scare off the solid core of a site and it turn into a free for all.

 

I believe in a stern warning to newbies first offences.. as well as long time posters..I also believe in Banning people. I think a more visible warning about this is needed.. you want to post here.. be thoughtful..if not, then you may be welcome here...play nice...and so will I... No need for pissing contests. there is ALWAYS someone with a faster Z heck..a faster truck...ALWAYS. some mods are done for other reasons..just ask me sometime about mine...never judge why someone has done what they have done..hot rodders have always modded using items at hand, or readily availble to them.. sorry but there are not a lot of jspec engines/spare parts around here where I live..but maybe they are where you live..all the better for you.

 

I also believe that if you can't control yourself after a warning..you have some issues, and this site is not free speech..someone else is paying for this site..you want to stand on a soap box, get your own site!..that can be your free speech..no complaints from me!

 

This site is about all kinds of mods..heck, I've heard of people talking about electric motors for Z!, hyrdrogen, turbine power...wild aero mods, body mods to the extreme... but in a technical manner...if you want 12" wide flares, then so be it.. it may not be areodynamic, but it might look super cool...no need to cut someone up because of their mods. I know I come up with what many people might think of as rediculous, or just plain "too far".. thats cool..just don't flame me for it.

 

If you want to flame someone..keep it offline!

 

you want to flame me.. email me [email protected]

 

I never start a fight I can't win, and you can't win on the internet..EVER!!

 

Peace guys

I'll offer my assistance if needed folks to watch the forums..I come here a lot, and read from most of the forums.

Email me for any help/ideas. I'll stand up for this site.

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a long long time ago i used to goto zcar.com but got tired of reading posts from people that are better at using computors than using hand tools .i joined this site a few years back and it is the only z site i look at.i think the rb forum could go the to alternate 6 cyl forum.this will discourage the 20something year old kids that read too many import mags form posting.some times i post questions but it is just to see the results of something somebody else has tried.i always post something positve or i dont post at all.due to the amount of bytes used to maintain this website things will probably have to change.i hope the turbo forum is not dropped.some people seem to think that forum is turbo l28 only.not so.its for turbo anything and i read all posts that i am interested in .i dont read that many posts-i skip alot because i have been there and done that.maybe the mods should make a stupid post forum and move the stupid posts there.for open season slamming.

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Hey, I must be nuts reading all these posts because I have better things to do to, but I was really surprised that you guys would consider being elitists about any hybridization of a Zcar; that's what Zcars do best! I'm working on a BMW 3.5 L6 into a 70 Z and there is nowhere that I can see ideas as I have here, even though there has been little on this site specifically for that concept. I did a 327 into a 70 back in 1973, so V8Z's have been around since the Scarabs of the 70's, but I didn't realize, I guess, that this site was intended to be so righteous about them while claiming no "Nissan only" creeds by others. Sorry if I've offended, but my only posts here were researched and mostly intended to seek out others with a similar interest. I log in nearly every day and cruise new posts and old, and thoroughly enjoy the quality of the site. I can show my wife posts here without worrying about unexpectedly finding naked girls instead of centerfold quality pictorals of Zcars. I'm also an English teacher and boy, could I use some posts for editing practice, so I appreciate the desire for professionalism. Yes, there are other sites, but you folks have done a superior job here, and by doing so, you will grow and attract a greater following. Sorry you've had to deal with difficulties, but honestly, some of the language and tone by some of the administrators' posts is setting a poor example for these "newbies" you refer to. You were once novices or newbies, and someone probably helped you, and now you have crossed over to the experienced side and have lots of experience and the contacts to help the next generation of hot rodders. Be glad you've had the opportunity to help somebody else.

Good luck

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I want to commend all the moderators and admins that keep this site great. I think being tough on offenders is the only way to keep the site the way we all want it. No BS, just the facts. This truly is a great technical resource, which is so hard to find these days.

 

I watched a cheezy show on Speed the other night (Tuner Transformations). They wanted to turn a 240SX into a high performance drift car. They showed them hoisting the Ka24 out, and in the next frame they are polishing the SR20DET valve cover installed in the 240SX. Oh yea, it's that easy! This is so indicative of the kind of technical reporting done out there. No one wants to actually talk technical details, becasue they are afraid of scaring readers/viewers away. Here at HybridZ, I'm sure we scare away plenty.

 

Being a long time internet user, I'm convinced this is the best technical source I've found. I also think the forum organization is perfect just the way it is. All engines should be represented here, including Nissan.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Pete Sanders

 

Internet Z Car Club #55

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Thanks for being here guys!

Just take a tour of the internet and you will see that nothing out there holds a candle to this site planning and construction. I know everyone can see all the effort and work you have done on this site over the years!

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GIRLFRIEND

 

Yes, Lynn and I separated back in May 2003 and the divorce was final at the end of that year. We're still friends, in fact Lynn and my girlfriend (Floris) threw me my 11th birthday party last Sunday. Kinda odd to have your ex-wife AND your girlfriend throwing you a party.

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GIRLFRIEND

 

Yes, Lynn and I separated back in May 2003 and the divorce was final at the end of that year. We're still friends, in fact Lynn and my girlfriend (Floris) threw me my 11th birthday party last Sunday. Kinda odd to have your ex-wife AND your girlfriend throwing you a party.

 

I dunno...that would scare me!! :shock::wink: Glad things are looking good!! Will the new 'doll' be at the gathering on saturday?

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CHOKE! :lol:

 

Come on Richard you can do better than that.... John left you all that material and you CHOKE???

 

Maybe the owner of the weasel, 'er Moosgoose can help you out there...

 

John, You are a man who loves danger... :shock:

Mike :lol: 8)

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OTTO: Oh! Danger? There’s no danger! Men! [drum march] Impressive, eh?

BRIAN: Yes.

OTTO: Oh, yes! We are a thoroughly trained suicide squad.

BRIAN: Oh.

OTTO: Oh, yes! We can commit suicide within twenty seconds.

BRIAN: Twenty seconds?

OTTO: You don’t believe me?

BRIAN: Yes.

OTTO: I think you question me.

BRIAN: No, no, no.

OTTO: I can see you do not believe me.

BRIAN: No, no. I do.

OTTO: Enough! I’ll prove it to you. Squad!

JUDEAN PEOPLE’S FRONT: Hail, Leader!

OTTO: Commit... suicide!

CAPTAIN: Two. Three. One! Two. Three. One! Two. Three. One! Two. Three. One!

J.P.F.: [groaning]

OTTO: See?

BRIAN: Yes.

OTTO: I think now you’ll believe me. Yes?

BRIAN: Yes. Very impressive.

OTTO: I think now I prove it to you, huh? No danger at all!

BRIAN: Yes.

OTTO: All dead.

BRIAN: Ye--

OTTO: Not one living. He’s dead... and he’s dead. See? I tread on him. He’s dead... and he’s dead... and he’s dead. They’re all dead. All dead good Jewish boys. No foreigners! But their names will live forever!

Helmut, Johnny,... the little guy,... the-- er-- the other fat one. Their names will live eventually forever. [sniff]

J.P.F: [p-p-p-p-p]

OTTO: Wait a minute. [sniff] There’s somebody here who’s not dead. There’s somebody here who is only pretending to be dead. Stand up, you.

J.P.F: Oow!

J.P.F: A-ha.

OTTO: Who said ‘ow’?!

J.P.F: Uhhlm.

OTTO: You’re not dead either. Neither are you! Stand up! Stand up. You’re not dead. Ah-- Eh-- Oh, my heck! Stand up! Stand up, all of you! Oh, my heck, is there not even one dead?!

HELMUT: No, sir. Not one.

OTTO: Why not?!

HELMUT: We thought it was a practise, sir.

OTTO: But all the bleeding and the groaning?

HELMUT: Little secreted sheeps’ bladders, sir.

OTTO: Oh-- Oh, my cock! Sheeps’ bladders?!

HELMUT: Yes.

OTTO: You are sour! A non-Semitic, mutinous, racially impure, cloth-eared bunch of Roman-lovers!

HELMUT: Stumm, stumm, stumm. Sorry, sir.

OTTO: Tomorrow, as a punishment, you will all eat... pork sausages!

J.P.F.: [groaning]

HELMUT: Oh, no.

OTTO: Now-- All right. Tell ze Leader that we are ready to die for him ze moment he gives the sign.

BRIAN: What sign?

OTTO:

The sign that is the sign. That shall be the sign. Men! Forward! [drum march]

J.P.F.: [singing]

There’s a man we call our Leader.

He’s fine and strong and brave,

And we’ll follow him unquestioning

Towards an early grave.

He-e gives us hope of sacrifice

And a chance to die in vain,

And if we’re one of the lucky ones,

We’ll live to die again.

 

BRIAN: Silly bugger.

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:shock: I've just witnessed another episode of the "Hybrid-Zone". How can this get any more bizarre than having an 11 year old man-child boy-racer bring tears to my eyes. Time to go into my garage and sit in the Blueovalz and contemplate my current standing in life once again.

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