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yellowoctupus

460ZGT Project Build

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This here's a story 'bout a man with a Z (and a Mustang GT).... Ok, so enough hillbilly songs, I've pulled down my perfectly good running driving 78Z and started putting in the 1996 2 cam Mustang 4.6L V8. It's paired up to the T45 5sp tranny. Pics so far are with the engine sitting in the engine bay, not yet mounted. Looks promising though. As an FYI, I couldn't find any bolt holes I really felt good about picking up by, so the rope/ tow strap around the engine worked great! ( I recently dropped a 302/C6 tranny combo because a grade 8 (flawed?) bolt sheared in half, dropping the assy from 4 ft to the ground. Ouch.) As I go through making motor mounts etc, I'll post as many pictures/ dimensions as I can.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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FYI, the whole straps around the engine works great for picking it up, just make sure you don't put a strap over the starter, I broke off the bendix engager unit on mine...so now I need a new starter :angry: Working on engine mounts, I'll post some pictures as soon as I get them going. It looks like with the engine sitting against the front crossmember, that I have at least an inch between the TB and the hood, so I'll probably space up my engine 0.5"-0.75" from where it's sitting now. I'm going to use what I can from the stock front clip, as the deep part of the oil pan is inline with the engine mounts, so if I make a custom one, it's got to be one with a big offset etc, etc. I'll probably see if I can use the original for now, and take good notes, maybe build up a new one later :rolleyes: ....maybe

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ENGINE'S IN!!! I still have to make my tranny mount, but the engine is sitting on it's tacked together mount with a healthy 1/4" between the throttle body and the hood. Nothing like cutting it a little close. The stock Ford engine mount will work ok, it completely misses the steering, the only thing I have to figure out is how far back I can pull the engine and still get the pass. exhaust pipe through. Of course nothing's welded up here, I didn't take pictures of the tacked up stage yet, I'll take better pics once it's out, welded up and painted. It's got 3/16" angle about 13" long on both sides. If I can, I'll bolt the whole mount through the frame rail, that way I can drop the engine down, lock it to the mount, then slide the mount with the engine in another inch or so towards the back of the car.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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New Trans. Mount made up, fits like a glove. The original was stamped and welded steel, same as the mustang one, but this was a little easier, I guess. I am still a little curious if anyone has some thoughts on this one though, because my engine is offset towards the passenger side about an inch, the transmission is pointing slightly off center. Is this going to be a problem, or will it actually help the rollers in the universals rotate, and prevent them from "flat-ing"? By the way, this a 0.25" plate, being welded up to 1.25" hex, all being done with a 110V wire feed welder. PS. The holes in the plate are just because it's a scrap plate from something else. No function. If I get real ambitious maybe I'll weld em up too. Probably not though. Racing holes!

 

 

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Got transmission mount in, bolted up like a factory mount smile.gif I just have to trim out a window for a casting lug on the transmission that is basically touching the front of the mount. Everything is lined up pretty straight too. I had to trim a tiny bit (~0.375" off the inside of one of the transmission mount hangers in the tunnel to kick the transmission over to the passenger side a little. The carpenters square (yellow) in the picture is butted on differential input flange. The scale was placed against the transmission output shaft and flipped over 180° to make sure the end of the scale was truly 90°. Surprisingly enough, it was. Here's a good reference on setting drivelines: http://jeep.zerok.ru/index.php?page=86

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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So...spent the last few weeks getting wiring straightened out....sigh.... it's nothing less than a huge mess. I can get it to fire up for 3 seconds at a time. Every time. I think it has something to do with the PATS (ford's anti theft system) but I'm having one hell of a time figuring it out. If anyone has experience with PATS, please let me know.

 

Between banging my head on the wiring, I've also been doing the little pieces here and there. I've got a NEW driveshaft on order, should be finished next week. (ran me $290, I could have gotten it to $220 using the old D/S I had from a C6, but the already sketchy looking mods weren't worth the risk)

 

Here's a pic of the throttle cable (I actually flipped the first ball link connector around, unscrewed the ball end (one end is threaded on, the other is swaged) and drilled and tapped the end of an old 302 throttle cable I had to screw onto the cable. The pull was a little too short, so I just replaced the under pedal stop (in the cabin) with a longer flathead bolt. Works great.

 

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Also, mod'ed the shifter to get it in the right position, although the console won't fit now... I'll either forego the console or re-mod the shifter lever to get it to work.

 

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Oh yeah, and one more thing I didn't snap a shot of yet, I found a serpentine belt that works great if you remove the AC and PS pump, you just have to get a slightly smaller idler pulley that is ribbed instead of flat.

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Just some new 'update' pics. Got the clutch all straightened out. I'll get some pictures of the slave later, the engine is out for brake/ gas line routings and finishing up the engine cradle right now. The last picture is a Noid light, used for seeing if your injectors are firing or not, worked great and I already had the parts on hand for it. Apparently I already had a broken cold start valve (male end plug), the LED and resistors. Beats having to buy a complete kit at like $50 from Harbor Freight. (of course later, it was electrical taped up, so it didn't ground out) The cradle has nuts welded to the top of it now, the frame rails were drilled from the top, then bolts slid up from the bottom and then the nuts were welded in place. They're pretty much unaccessable from the top, so in from the bottom they go.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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If anyone has experience with PATS, please let me know.

 

 

'96-and-up Mustangs have a unique security system called the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS), which can cause problems for DIY engine swappers who aren't familiar with it. PATS is comprised of a steering column-mounted transmitter and an ignition key with a coded chip (arrow) that all work together to protect the 'Stang. When you attempt to start the engine, the PATS transmitter sends out a radio frequency signal that's picked up by the transponder in the key. Once the key's coded chip is recognized, the transponder returns a unique RF signal to the PCM, giving the OK for the engine to start and run. Engines swapped from PATS-equipped 'Stangs have no hope unless the processor, coded key, and transponder package are part of the process, or the PATS system is disabled with a plug-in chip or flash tuner.

Edited by Trevor

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Trunk mounted? Hmm.. I think the 96 I pulled all the PATS stuff out of had the transponder mounted under the dash. Even with all the stuff wired up it didn't do the trick (matching ECU, PATS module, transponder key, and ignition pickup-halo). I found a guy through the corral forums that does programming dirtydirtyracing.com To turn off PATS, EGR, and the rear O2's on one ECU runs $125, for another $75 he'll put a custom tune on it, I got him to do two ECU's for $200 for the pats, egr, and rear o2's. I'm sending them in this week, so I'll let you know how they turn out.

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Been doing lots of wiring etc lately. ECU's seem to have been tuned right, as the car no longer dies after running for two seconds smile.gif In the video below (the last picture there is a video), that's about 3/4 throttle, it will lay rubber on command, but my local friendly neighbor cop told me to stop running around the neighborhood with no mufflers (albeit, no comment about no plates/insurance), so no smokeout videos. Enjoy!

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Just some new 'update' pics. Got the clutch all straightened out. I'll get some pictures of the slave later, the engine is out for brake/ gas line routings and finishing up the engine cradle right now. The last picture is a Noid light, used for seeing if your injectors are firing or not, worked great and I already had the parts on hand for it. Apparently I already had a broken cold start valve (male end plug), the LED and resistors. Beats having to buy a complete kit at like $50 from Harbor Freight. (of course later, it was electrical taped up, so it didn't ground out) The cradle has nuts welded to the top of it now, the frame rails were drilled from the top, then bolts slid up from the bottom and then the nuts were welded in place. They're pretty much unaccessable from the top, so in from the bottom they go.

 

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Hi yellowoctupus

 

I am interested in how you setup the t45 and why use a Chrysler brake master cylinder for the clutch...Also what did you used on the transmission for the slave? I am using a tremec 3650 which should be similar.

 

Thanks in advance

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This was my first try, it worked but was in the way of my exhaust. I mounted the stock Z 7/8" slave to the transmission mount. It also flexed the trans rubber mount whenever you pushed the clutch, so you lost some travel.

 

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Try two, Wilwood cylinder 260-1333 works pretty well; it looks like it's bolted solid in this picture, but the thick yellow zinc washer is actually conical, allowing it to pivot on the cable stop hole. It's left loose enough to pivot, but not loose enough to see in this picture. I also pulled the cylinder apart to change the stud out on the cable stop end.

 

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Another view: The larger 'nut' that is contacting the clutch release lever is actually a drilled out nut which is ground into a conical end to pivot against the clutch arm.

 

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The Chrysler M/C was used because I wasn't sure what size cylinder I'd need, and from rough calculations came up with 1 1/8" (somehow). I think 1" would be better, as my pedal travel is limited to keep the slave from over traveling however. I only used the Chrysler, as I didn't want to have to buy two or three M/Cs to get it right. (Already had three of these sitting on my parts shelf...)

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Front exhaust 'y' pipe. Still waiting on my muffler to come in to finish up the rest....

 

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Went to O'Reillys auto parts, they wanted $23 for ONE O2 Bung!!! Obviously that did not happen. If you reuse these bungs, just cut them out square, weld them in square. Easier than holesawing 1" holes on an exhaust corner.

 

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Pertaining the clutch slave movement, right now my clutch disengages all the way with 1 1/16" travel, but I know I can get another 5/16" without filing down the back of the clutch release arm.

Edited by yellowoctupus

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So....the car is basically ready to drive, less putting the rad. fan back in, and hooking up one wire to the stock Z fusebox for lights etc.

 

Here's some pics of the finished exhaust and the battery arrangement I put together. It's not in the most convenient location, but I used the battery box area under the hood for my intake (and future airbox), and I really don't like when people have them inside their cars (in case of leakage, fire etc).

 

I went with a Thrush welded 2 chamber style muffler (PN 17649). From stock manifolds, I have 2.5" running until it comes together at a union behind the transmission, then it goes out 3". I was going to go with a quieter muffler, such as the Thrush Super Hush, but found an ACTUAL picture of the 3" through model and it actually necks down right before going into the muffler. What's the point in that?? Anyhow, it sounds pretty sweet with this one. Idles pretty quiet, but when you get into the throttle, it howls like all get out.

 

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The exhaust is fully hung in there now. May need to add one additional support by the 3" SS flex though. I'll have to see how much movement there is when I'm driving.

 

 

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This is the battery mount, it holds to the bottom of the 'trunk' area by 7 M6 screws. The bottom portion bolts on to the two hangers, so the battery can be removed with only the lower mount by 4 easy to access M8 bolts.

 

 

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One of the bolts is the ground connection. The positive lead has enough extra cable that I can drop the battery to the ground and unhook it there. You CAN get to both of the terminal clamps from the 'as mounted' location though. It's just a little tighter to work on there.

 

 

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The cable starts basically at the left headlight (a the fusebox/electrical distribution box), then I drilled an extra hole in the AC firewall insulator. This brings in the cable just to the left of center at the heater. Then the cable runs under the center counsel.

 

 

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Used some insulator grommets I had kicking around and brought the cable into the trunk area, and exited right above the rear diff. I cut the 3" access hole to push the cable through. It was super tight on the grommet, but WD-40 and some long curved jaw needle nose pliers helped push it through relatively painlessly. Under the car to keep the cable from wrapping around the passenger axle, there is a rubber hanger that is used for the e-brake, I just fed this cable on top of it too. Worked out beautifully. As a side note, has anyone reclaimed the little toolbox things in a 280z, the way they were in a 240z? I was a little surprised to see the cutouts right there for them. Just wasted dead space right now. Someday I'm going to re-do that back area with the 240z height style in mind. (At least the first foot or so. Maybe just hinge the whole first foot in the opposite direction as the rear access is right now, so it's handy to get to from the passenger compartment....

 

 

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Battery box sits just barely above the diff/ gas tank level, which is what I was going for. You could bring it up about 3/8" before hitting the fuel lines; as it is I had to remove some of the bend one of the fuel lines originally had to get it to fit. This mount is so solid, I can't flex it in any direction; it can probably be used as a new jack lift point.

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Just a quick update, I've had the car on the road for about a month now, driving it every day to work (30mi/day), and even taking it on a few (~150mi) longer trips on the highway. It's really fun, starts right up and runs like a dream. I don't have reverse, and have to double clutch it into 5th, but I think it's probably a bent shift fork. (Haven't had time to tear down the trans and check though, as this is my only car at the moment.)

 

A few notes:

 

1: Possibly change out the clutch M/C for a 1" bore (currently 1-1/8")and lengthen the pedal throw

 

2: Likewise lengthen the pedal throw on the accelerator, as it's a tad bit touchy. I'm used to it now, but anyone who takes the car for a spin has some difficulty getting used to it.

 

3: The exhaust has a low spot that is on a bend at the rear axle, that could be straightened out, it has hit twice while going through big dips in the road.

 

4: Get some better (tackier, etc?) tires. She gets a bit squirrley on rainy roads. Just rolling on the throttle (no clutch work), it will spin the tires in 4th. I didn't try 5th.

 

 

So far, although I'm not sure I'd recommend this swap (compared to a 5.0, etc) I'm 100% happy with the way it works and drives. It's awesome. :2thumbs:

Edited by yellowoctupus

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2000mi mark coming up, somehow the tranny keeps putting along. Lately I'm working on getting gauges functional. Still have to do speedo and tach, but here's some notes on Oil and water temp:

 

Water Temp:

 

Make sure you have a return ground path for the original Z RTD (it's a plastic manifold = not a good electrical path..) I welded a stud to the Z sending unit hold-down collar, and ran a grounding strap from that to the block. I also had to get a universal gauge fitting adapter kit, and cut down the Z hold-down collar 1/8" for proper thread engagement. Seems to work well so far. By the way, I took a 'non functioning' sending unit apart for fun, it's pretty neat, I'll post some pictures later. Also, it works fine now that I took it apart... :bonk:

 

 

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Oil Pressure:

 

I have been trying to use the mustang wiring harness as much as possible to not create a spiderweb of extra wires under the hood for gauges etc, so I made a plug converter to go from the original Mustang oil pressure switch (yes, even though the Mustang dash shows a gauge, the sending unit closes the circuit, and there's a fixed resistor behind the gauge, which makes the needle swing up to that set point. Pretty sweet, huh?) Just ignore the grey wire in the picture, that wasn't used (I was using a used M/F 3/16" spade connector and drilled a hole in the male end to accept the M5 bolt). I could have cut off the stock Mustang 'push on' end, but it's really a pain to get to, and I insist on soldered connections everywhere (even after crimping), and I certainly can't get down under the block to solder a different end on.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Tranny is out, putting in another T-45 (lets hope this one shifts into reverse!). I'm putting in a reman LUK clutch/pressure plate this week, and figured while all this is out, I might as well finish up the shifter so it fits under the stock center console. Needless to say, it's really tight up there. The shifter comes out of the transmission right below the rear defrost/ haz light switches, so there's maybe 1" of room for the shifter to move back and forth with. It's too bad it's so tight, I got a T-45 B&M shifter at the pick n pull and wanted to use it (it has adjustable stops), but there's no way it would fit. No way no how.

 

I had some broken 3mm German Allen drivers from work that somebody threw out, they're made out of some really nice steel with a funky red rubber handle (actually pretty ergonomic). I reefed on one in a vice exerting at least 4x the force I would shifting and it didn't bend at all. (It's 5/16" in diameter). I am still using the stock shifter ball joint, but I cut it off super short, drilled a 5/16" hole in it, and pressed in the allen arm. Once I gave it the crazy dogleg bends (heated it up with a oxy/act torch) and test fit it in the car with my junk console, I welded the shaft end into the hole to prevent it from rotating during gate changes. (from the 1-2 to 3-4 gate; Left to right movement, etc)

 

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Next up is the speedo/tach. I don't have pictures yet, and they're not 100% done (still have to finish up backlighting, check engine light etc) but I massaged a set of gauges from a 1994 T-bird into the stock tach and speedo pods. I put them in a day before pulling the tranny, so I at least got to test them first.

 

Speaking of the speedo cal, after I put them in, of course the speedo wasn't dead on. It has a 21 tooth driven gear, and what it needs is a 23. Ford Racing has a good chart of part nubmers -->http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/SpeedometerGearUsageChart.pdf but of course no 23 tooth gear. The only FORD solution is pulling the tailshaft extension housing off and changing the drive gear from the 8 tooth to the 6 or 7. Luckily for all the actual Ford racing guys out there, Steeda and a bunch of other companies offer a non Ford PN 23 tooth gear! Yay! -->http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-23-tooth-speedo-gear.html

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Sooooooo, with the new clutch in, the crazy Chrysler dual brake MC I put in just barely doesn't push enough fluid to disengage the clutch. The car's basically undriveable, although I kinda revmatched it around the block once or twice.

 

Here's a PDF of the Tilton Master Cylinder I'm putting in tomorrow. It's a 1" bore, 1.2" stroke brake/clutch universal MC. Scored it from evilbay, and it came with a drawing dated 1985. It's great to see a company come up with a design and then keep it for years in production, instead of coming out with some throw away design every other year, making your three year old part unserviceable. Ok, sorry for bichin, I'm off my soap box.

 

FYI, clutch pedal stroke is maxed out at 1" at the stock pushrod location. Maybe you could stretch a little more travel out of it, but that would require removing the floor bumpstop, or changing the adjustable 'topout' bumper. With a 7/8" slave cylinder (Wilwood pull) and 1" Tilton MC with 1" travel, I can get 1.4" travel from the slave. I was going to upload an easy clutch component calculator I made in excel to this post, but I can't attach it for some reason. Send me a PM if you want it, and I'll email it to you. You just put in the three of the four things you know (MC travel, slave travel, slave piston diameter, MC piston diameter) and it will spit out the last variable for you.

 

The 'doglegged' shifter arm I made JUST BARELY fits under the hazard light switch in the center console (maybe 3/16" clearance), I wasn't kidding about having to cut the stock shifter down short. Also, I had to make a fancy pocketed shifter hole cover since the shifter arm dips so low for clearance. I may make the shifter arm a little bit longer, as it looks like a short shifter with the console pleather boot installed.

 

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I also now have the full wiring figured out for my stock Hitachi radio, including how to run an MP3 player into it. smile.gif I have a jack wired into the ashtray in the center console, so it's still bone stock looking inside the passenger compartment.

TiltonMC.pdf

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Not a 4.6 update, but the radio's all hooked up. Kind've a pain to do with no stock brackets, but it's pretty sturdy and all lines up nice. There's a switch in the ashtray; you switch power from the radio to one of the pins on the Aux input plug, and the amp is powered through the AUX input instead. Kooky, eh? I'll post wiring details later. Nissan did some weird stuff that is left out of all their factory wiring diagrams like switching wire colors at harness plugs etc. Also, FYI the center knobs are not stock, I was missing one of the black plastic ones, so I put a set-screw into some solid aluminum ones from a 70's Sanyo radio on it which worked out pretty well.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Ford cruise control is in and is working. Eventually I'll find a better switch location, but this easily housed all the resistors/ switches for easy prototyping. Not sure what the box was for originally, but whenever I find little switch/project boxes like this I horde em. DSC09725.jpg

 

Helps to have big hood scoops for running wires cool.gif

 

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I also got the stereo working with WAY better sound quality, originally it just has those two 3" speakers right below the quarter windows, I put in some 8" Alpines and ran an Alpine amp under the rear deck floor, for a completely clean installation. You wouldn't know anything was different unless you pulled the seats back. IMHO it is a way better setup than taking up the little space that is in the hatch area with separate speaker boxes. Overall they came out real nice, and the sound quality is not even comparable (compare watching Starwars on your crappy TV speakers or at the movies). I actually ran both the subs and 3" speakers in parallel with no crossover to the amp and the amp to my mp3 player in the ashtray (where the toggled power switch is) and they sound RELATIVELY balanced. Maybe a little too much power to the 3" Boston Acoustics, but it's not bad. My old 8" Alpines were completely blown when I took them out of their boxes (who knew??), so with some Aleene's craft glue and new foam surrounds (from Bootapest on evilbay, under $10 shipped), they are working great again! Way cheaper than replacing them with even crappy speakers. Another note, if you get 2+2 carpeting, it's almost EXACTLY the same as 2 seater rear carpeting, except you have to trim some extra material at the tranny hump (at the back of the center console). I got some for $2 at the junkyard in great shape, sure beats my old tan household carpet that was back there!

 

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Almost forgot, this is a real handy trick for protecting wires, hoses etc on rough/ sharp holes. It's just plastic wire loom conduit, when you put it in a cutout, it springs tight and won't fall back out.

 

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Well, I've had the car up on jackstands the last two weeks on my original quest to find a rear end vibration which has led itself into a quest for giant brakes. Hmph. In the meantime, I found some interesting things while digging into the brake system.

 

My booster was full of brake fluid. Like, there was over a cup in there. It's been in there for the last 5 years, as I replaced the MC back in 2007. The insides are nice and clean (and paint free). I would not recommend taking one of these suckers apart, as they're a PITA to put back together properly, and not have any leaks where the two halves come together. I ended up (after the third try with these tiny vacuum leaks on the seam) putting it together with a bead of RTV on the diaphragm edge. I let it sit for two days, and it seems to have fixed the problem. I haven't had the car fired up again to see if the booster is good to go now. I think the only other problem I might have is if the air valve isn't unseating for some reason (old, swollen rubber or something) then I'm getting no pressure differential ie, no power brakes.

 

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Front Discs. I'm sure the concours guys know this, but I hadn't noticed it before; the calipers are painted half yellow, half black.

 

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I decided to do a brake swap up front, using the four piston Toyota 4x4 brakes. Instead of the S12W variants, I got mine off a 1994 4Runner, which are S13WB calipers. They look similar, and bolt right up to the mount in the same manner. However, as has been mentioned before in the FAQ section, they are different (Overall wider, and also require a wider rotor). I'm using the 84ZX vented front rotors.

 

I had to grind down the cooling fins a bit to clear one of my sets of wheels. I also have to run 3/16" wheel spacers, and I will be using the Dorman PN 610-403 Nissan Quest rear wheel stud. (I have attached a three page PDF of the Dorman catalog with this info in it.)

 

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I'm thinking of making some 'pad spacers' to reduce this gap instead of finding/ machining another rotor.

 

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Making the rotor spacer, I somehow already had discs cut the right OD and thickness laying around the shop. Odd, but convenient. The tool I used isn't the best quality, but I replaced the crappy keystock cutter with a HSS flycutter, and it will do some rudimentary machining.

 

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Spacer mounted.

 

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Rear Discs:

 

 

I have slightly loose rear wheel bearings, which I'm planning on replacing. While I have the rear end apart, I have decided to go to discs too. I have a late 80's Maxima caliper bracket I'll probably use, not sure which rotor/ caliper yet.

 

Pulling the rear stub axle was tricky, but I made do with my homemade puller. I had a front motorcycle axle laying around (81 CB650??) that has the same M12x1.25 thread, and I pulled the top cap off an extra lug nut to make this puller. Worked great, but still took a lot of hammering.

 

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Has anyone seen this grease before?? It's blue!

 

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zstuds.pdf

Edited by yellowoctupus

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