seattlejester

That seems easy enough to do. Grounding signal from the trigger pin. Would that be to check if there is continuity from the trigger pin to the ground? I'm pretty sure I would need an oscilloscope to capture the actual firing event. Sorry still not all to comfortable with electronic aspects. Coils look like they are coming in next Monday...although I bought them from someone less then 100 miles away on Tuesday.

Yes that has been weighing on my mind, that and the incident when the battery just quit. Granted the engine did run which is the most confusing of this whole scenario, and the toyota COPs are supposed to be smart and have built in protection from being overloaded. Granted I'm sure they can only tolerate a certain amount of stupid. The fuse is on the higher side of what I have heard, but I hear in perfect working order they should see 7-8 amps functioning correctly. If I needed to go all the way up to 30, it definitely wouldn't be outlandish to think that the coils are unhappy, hence why I ordered the new set. I'm hoping to run 3 of the new coils only and see if they output correctly and then use the last three spare coils to pair the outputs. I think if all works at that point, I will have to assume one or more of the original 6 are bad and I can go about testing them. Coils can come out easy enough. Not sure how much they are going to like firing without an exit nearby (spark plug). I'm just not sure on the best way to ground test the coil on plug setup. If I can find a way to bench test the coil on plugs I would definitely like to try it, most of the tests I'm finding though involves swapping coils or having a magnetic pickup tool. Trust me I wished it was just my wiring, my life would be much easier at that point. For the wiring to exhibit the way it does, the spark outputs would have to be continuous to each output. As in continuity from A-B-C when testing any of the output pins. And they show no continuity between inputs or output pins. The only time it looks a little problematic is when actual COPs are connected.

I believe you can just cut the end off, it's literally just a small restriction at the very end of the pipe. Other then that, it seems you have a good list and plan. Really hope we will hear good news next week.

I knew someone would bring it up...doesn't change the fact that L motors are still old. The LS motors are modernized, refined, etc, but yes the 2 valves per cylinder is still old. Simple, cheap, etc, still old.

So a bit of an update. With some remote testing and testing the outputs with the coils unplugged, it seems the ECU is happy. Matt has been very patient and helpful with that process. We still haven't crossed an undetectable fault off the board, but it seems supremely unlikely that just the ignition portion of the ECU is unhappy when plugged into all three coil channels. This points us back towards wiring and COPs. Test mode with all 6 coils unplugged are outputting as it should. Plugging in one input at a time behaves as it should (i.e. plugging in only coil 1 and firing channel A only fires coil 1 and 6, removing the plug for 1-6 and plugging in the others does nothing). This points to the problem being isolated to the coil on plugs firing simultaneously when more than 1 channel is plugged in to the coil on plugs. Continuity tests further points towards the wiring harness being without fault. The wires I am using also have an additional oil protection coating so cross talk through 4 layers seems unlikely. Just in case, the wiring harness will be separated as a last resort to see if that is a source of the problem. From further reading wasted COP setting is used when you have 6 coils wired into outputs A, B, C, D, E, F, and want to pair the outputs. Setting wasted COP will have the ECU fire two of the coil channels. With the way things are wired it actually does not make a difference whether I choose wasted spark or wasted COP as with wasted spark the 3 channels fired are A, B, C, while with wasted COP it would be A-X, B-X, C-X. I think for simplicity I will revert back to wasted spark. If the LED's are to be believed, then the outputs when unplugged from the COPS are going as they should, test firing A has the PAD1 led blink in going high etc etc. I have ordered another set of COPs, annoyingly they only really come in sets of 4. I bought two sets last time so I have a total of 6 unused, but just in case, I will use just 3 of the cops from the new set on cylinder 1-2-3 to see if the COPs were the problem. So the questions are... The difference between going high and going low. If the LED's are to be believed, going high means a pulse of power is sent to the COP as the led blinks when firing spark. Using the same logic, going low the LED's stay on and I imagine if you had sensitive enough equipment you could detect a very subtle blink when the circuit is triggered. The way the board is wired and the COPS I am using suggests I should run going low (logic output, built in igniter coils). On the flip side, some people are saying to run going high on the miata forums. One thing that is a bit of a concern is a slight fluctuation in voltage while the ECU is connected. My voltmeter in the car shows no fluctuations, but in tuner studio I am seeing maybe a rise and drop of 1/2 a volt or so with just the ignition on, not running anything. What could cause the pulsing voltage? Have other people noticed the slight bouncing of the voltage in tuner studio? I am running the VR delete and an internally regulated alternator, so perhaps until I get above running voltage I won't see anything? Akrev: This one is for you, would you happen to know if Jeff followed the diagram below? You mentioned not needing one for the ground side, it seems like the capacitor is supposed to be bridged between the power and the ground? So current theories in order of likeliness: COPS are bad (I did run them in the going high configuration for a while) Strange Voltage (perhaps the fluctuations are causing some kind of problem?) Wiring is bad (cross talk of some sort) ECU is bad (highly unlikely it seems) I think this may be my last week before I'm done playing with it. I have a bit of money saved up, the shop that installs megasquirt has gotten back to me saying they are willing to help, and they are only 20 miles away and I should have my AAA renewed later today.

Looks like it needs some wheels and a bit of suspension work, and oh don't forget.....lol. Really admirable build man, short, simple, thurough, cheap, love it. Biggest advice I got for killing road/windnoise is the little fuzz balls in front of the mic. Even for go pros the little wind cutter/wind screener fuzz balls seems to make a huge difference.

It is a physical restriction, you would just take the rubber line off and look at the connection to the fuel rail. One tube should have no restriction, the other will have a much much smaller hole. It's up to you really. If it is worth your time to test the flow rate then go for it. If you would rather spend 40$ and not worry about it then go that route. For all we know it really could be a tired pump, or maybe a worn pump, it may indeed not be pushing adequate fuel so your bowls run dry. This is all still assumption though. Checking that your carbs are functioning correctly would be the next step after you check the pump and change out the filters. From the fuel perspective it could only be.... Electrical (you said a recent rewire should prevent that from being an issue) Fuel routing (you took care of that with the reroute) Fuel tank (rust in the tank clogging the pickup or bits coming loose and...) Clogged filter (clogged filter would mean even with pressure behind it only so much can go) Fuel pump (really tired or worn fuel pump could indeed be winding down or not delivering the promised volume) Fuel metering device (carb setting, a really badly set float could be shutting the fuel flow off prematurely making the small amount of fuel in the bowls run out very quickly before needing to be filled again) Engine (low engine vacuum could mean that even if your fuel flow and metering was perfect, the engine is not pulling sufficient vacuum to pull a vacuum across the carbs to pull up the fuel) Low fuel (I highly doubt that is the case, I'm sure that is one of the first things you checked if different amounts of fuel in the tank alleviated the problem)

...He's saying the engine in NA form with all the port matching, head work, etc would be capable of 350hp. Not necessarily to build an NA engine and then boost it. I think rebekahz made it almost into the 10's with a stock ls2 which is 400hp 400tq rating from the factory. The Z chassis is light I think it's the same weight as a miata with a passenger. You don't need 700hp to break into the 10's. You have to remember that it is older technology. 2 valves per cylinder, single overhead cam etc. It isn't impossible, quite a few examples of fairly high hp cars using the L-block if you look around, electromotive had something around that much hp back in the 80's, but it would be easier with other engines on the market and the Z chassis accepts them pretty readily. That's probably the reason people don't do it very often, not that the engine isn't capable, but it requires quite a bit of work, more so then buying a 2jz and adding a big turbo would (which would get you roughly in the same range).

Actually the fuel flow rating is quite high. I was told 1gph can feed ~10hp on the high side by pegasus racing when I was looking around. So that pump should be able to feed 230-320hp. I had a 15gph in my car and it ran fine until the fuel relay spade fell off. I recall the bottom one had the restrictor in place. Did you check the lines to make sure the restrictor is either removed (if you are using the regulator, which it looks like you are) or plumbed to the correct line? The voltmeter should be reading high 13 or 14's unless you are using an accessory. Not being able to use the starter to start the car seems strange. I could crank mine for a minute or two on my tiny battery. Alternator checks out? Three things to do is one, pop off the return past the regulator and turn the pump on (make sure you have a bucket so the gas doesn't eat the paint). You should see good fuel flow once the pressure is reached. Next try the same with the feed line popped off. Finally try it with the filter popped off. Each time the flow should be roughly equivalent and the gas should be the same color. My thought is the gas coming post filter is going to be milky and the filter may be filled with gunk. If that is the case, you may want to swap the filter near the pump as well. It could very well be the pump, a replacement is 40$ or so, and it comes with a new filter, that may not be a bad idea. I would get a clear filter in the engine bay at least for testing so you can see the fuel actually moving around.

Palnet fuel rail and 440cc supra injectors (7mgte mk3) seem to be the go to route around here for minimal modification. As long as you could find a fuel rail with the correct spacing and a machine shop to open up or weld in new injector bosses the world's your oyster as they say. I don't think the injectors you pictured would work as I believe they get their fuel in the horizontal fashion, so you would be limited to the fuel rail that it came on. If it matched the intake pattern you might be in luck, but I wouldn't be hopeful.

Interesting. Bummer that it didn't work out very easily. Do you have a fuse for your fuel pump? For that matter, can you ID your fuel pump? Any pictures of the new way you routed your carbs? Couple of photo's from different angles will really be a big help here. Is the fuel filter the clear variety? Can you see if it is full or picked up any bits? I think the questions now are where does the problem reside... Fuel pump Fuel lines Carbs If you could ID your pump and check the wiring that would be a big help. Maybe wiring in an inline bulb to the fuel pump or something of that nature would tell how the pump is behaving when the engine bogs, I had 1 poor connection on my fuel pump relay and my AFR gauge which was getting power from the fuel pump would flicker before the car ran out of fuel/started bogging. Fuel lines, if there is a restriction before the carbs then not enough fuel could possibly be making it to the carbs. Carbs if the float heights are set incorrectly you could actually just be shutting off the fuel flow and using the meager amount of fuel, have you checked the fuel float heights? Do you have a volt meter on hand? If you aren't supplying enough voltage and amps to the pump it could be struggling a bit, granted it would be popping low amp fuses if that was the case.

Yea, it seems to be the weakest point which is a good thing. I think brute force non-grease-able are the strongest you can get before looking for a cv conversion.

That's a real bummer, but at least that's better then the stub axles snapping, then you would be without a wheel. Were you doing lots of launches? Wolf creek or ermish racing (I think that's the spelling) have porsche conversion axles. Lot's of bolts involved though. If you were on a budget the 280zx or 300zx axle swap could be done for less.

Seems interesting. I'm not following the custom strut tower portion though. Do you mean a custom strut tower top? So basically you are using the front hubs from the intrepid (which is front wheel drive thus the drive wheels), to the ford f150 cv to the porsche 930 axle to the porsche 930 cv to the custom 8.8 input stub to the 8.8 differential. Any pictures? Would be interesting to see how it lines up/sits.

My friend used to work at a subaru performance shop, so I've actually asked around about hp/torque limitations of the subaru r180. The consensus was that even the 6xx hp cars were running the stock differential, but the power was of course being split to all 4 wheels. The shop owner seemed to think that it wasn't a part that needed upgrading in subaru applications other then maybe a cooler/finned cover for most builds. There was actually some talk about taking the R200 from our Z cars for those who were thinking of drag racing or running a lot of rear bias on the forums, but who knows if that was just bench racing. The roadkill rotsun is pushing over 350hp and 400tq if memory serves through it's wrx differential. Some of the local 510 guys say they put 300-400 daily through theirs. I also think the halfshafts/stub axles are the weak points. With the stub axles breaking being a lot more of a concern then the half shaft. A broken halfshaft may be bad, but a broken stub axle will mean you loose a wheel. Keep in mind converting to a subaru diff is still a pricey task, either conversion stubs or running a custom cv axle conversion. If drifting is going to be an activity you are more limited in your differential choices, I've been told the viscous units will over heat and not lock the wheels as efficiently with longer sessions, so at that point an aggressive clutch style or a welded diff would be preferable. Living with either is going to be a chirping nightmare.

Thanks Matt, Will do. I really don't think you guys sent the board out with problems. I'd be more then happy to pay a diagnostic fee if this solves this conundrum. The coils are wired via... 32097-upgrading-coil-plugs-all-years-cop-writeup-cop_pins-jpg 1 ground 2 trigger 3 tach 4 +12V found on here http://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/upgrading-coil-plugs-all-years-cop-writeup-12704/ Part of my last checks will be heading up and inspecting the output pins on the coil packs to the pad outputs to make sure each one is outputting to it's own coils (paired outputs). Once that is confirmed, I think wiring can be 100% crossed off the table, and then it will just be the settings/board gremlin somewhere.

Really excited for you, stop teasing you tease and get back to work!

Yea, I went in with high hopes, but yea.... Yes, output pins have been verified, one from DB37 pin 36 I believe (brown wire labeled spark A), the other from DB15 pin 10 and 11. DIY actually told me to set it to wasted spark when I had it on wasted COP. I was told it does not make a difference? I can try giving that a change and see if anything happens. Boost control is not connected so it is not outputted. Plan is indeed to set it to J11 when the time comes. I'm giving it one last effort, and then going to either ask to send it back to DIY for a checkup to see if the board is outputting as it should, or if I somehow hurt only the ignition portion of the board, or take the board to my local MS installer, and see if they can shed some light. If the board checks out, then I guess I have to replace the coils and take the entire harness apart. Thanks for the assistance guys, I really wished it was something we could have figured out, but alas...

Changed settings, no dice. Tach output wire is still showing simultaneous spark via test mode. Even during cranking, none of the led's are flashing. Any diagnostics anyone wants me to run while I'm still here?

I believe the coils have built in protection so if anything they should be safe. I'm hoping that the board is doing ok, nothing looks out of place, and apparently the continuity readings are indeed moot with the presence of the pull up resistors to pull the voltage up to 5v. Oh wow, yea, I did take extra care to make sure the polarity was correct, I haven't really had a chance to use them yet, the guy at the parts store sold me a 50v 10,000uf unit saying the voltage is just a measure of the max voltage it can hit. It's fairly sizable though. Small world, I'm actually familiar with the build, voted the most thorough rebuild ever I believe. Actually read through the entire build a few weeks ago. Hopefully some news tomorrow. Boy is my face going to be red if that was the source of all my problems.

That looks exactly like how it is wired, Q16 removed, middle pin wired to PAD1. The lack of any other obvious looking BIP units also points to logic level, and the coils (based off of a quick search) indeed have built in igniters. I really hope it wasn't that simple.......could that really cause the coils to be running simultaneously/poorly? Really good catch though!

Yea, I'm beginning to get that feeling, I think the continuity test was just a way to make me panic prematurely. I will go back to things I can test. Wiring I will take a look at, the msq I will go over again, to my understanding though, the PAD1-3 should all be outputting through the LED's on the board so they should be on/off in series during cranking, so something to look for there. If I can't find anything after that, I may be ready to throw my towel in and take it to someone more familiar with the process.

^I realized that I never did upload the form, I attached the order/mod form they sent above. I feel like I am kind of freaking out at the moment, if I seemed panicked in my response, my apologies. I think I am going to walk away for a little bit grab lunch and try to calm down.

Congratulations! I really appreciate you taking the time to look, I know time is at a premium during the first few months. I think there are more than 1, tracing everything on the board is making it a bit difficult. I requested and paid for DIY to install 3 additional drivers, 2 additional for spark, 1 additional for boost control. Boost control is easily identified to the side. According to the parts list for building a general board It says q3 and q11 are Transistor PNP 6A 100V HI PWR TO220AB U5 is Regulator LDO TO-220 Which makes me think they should not be the ignition* drivers. The parts list says Q16 should be an actual ignition driver, I don't have anything in that slot at all. The Q16 slot does have a wire on the backside from the output (where the middle leg would be if it was there) to PAD1 I guess the other two drivers would be wherever PAD2, and PAD3 are connected to internally. The schematic makes it look like PAD1 is for injection (squirt-1), PAD2 is for warmup enrichment (warmup-1), and PAD3 is for acceleration enrichment (accel-1). Am I reading that incorrectly? http://www.megamanual.com/357/hardware.htm Second to the bottom schematic.

Thanks would appreciate it. If someone has their megasquirt unit handy, could they see if there's continuity between PAD1-3? My multimeter is saying there's continuity between the pads. I am getting continuity from each individual output to 3 drivers, the one on U5, Q11, and Q3. Or the 1st, 3rd, and 7th driver mounted on the top going from left to right. This is with testing the output (middle leg) on each of the pad. The lower the value the lower the Ohm's I believe for my multimeter. So... PAD1 is continuous to U5, Q11, and Q3 (1260). PAD2 is continuous to U5, Q11, and Q3 (1260). PAD3 is continuous to U5, Q11, and Q3 (1260). My brain says, that they should be separate. Like I am getting continuity on the output pins, which would make complete sense as to why and how they are firing the way they were. Additional testing... I am also getting continuity from the heat sink to the drivers. U5 middle leg (003) & right leg (600) Q11 middle leg (003) Q5 right leg (003) R38 left leg (003) Q3 middle leg (003) Q1 right leg (003) These same continuous pins have continuity to the spark output as well. Although at a higher rating. And all of the following have continuity to ground, and power....I can't tell if I am retarded right now or if something is really wrong. How would the board even power up with everything connected like that? I've moved JP1 to 1-2 and J1 to 3-4. I do not have a resistor for R57. DIY says to remove it, msextra to add the resistor for a pullup hall sensors. Not sure what to do there.