seattlejester

Interesting, so you cut the strut tube, and weld in an adapter so that the coil overs don't have to be modified. I've got a spare strut assembly front and rear .

^That's my thought, the "grounding kits" fad made me turn off of over grounding the car. I can understand having a noisy ground, it is a thing, and a noisy ground would play havoc with sensitive electrical equipment and the coil and injectors can indeed be noisy, but I doubt it will exhibit the same problems I am encountering (rock steady sensor input, variable coil firing, rough running). To be fair, I did take your advice and ground the coils to the head. Still the same problem. The capacitors did not seem to work, so I may hold off on them for the moment. Once again I can appreciate it, input is very important to me, but if possible I would like to look past the possibility of the ground for the moment as it turns out grounding isn't the problem. Akrev, I owe you a meal. The coils are all firing at the same time. I had the tach wire grounded to the chassis with a loop so that I could read off of it with my timing gun. Changed the output to test spark C, and started reading spark pulses. Only to find the wire was on spark A. Switched them around and the same result, switched to B same result. All 6 coils/3 inputs are firing when any of the spark outputs are triggered. Spark output A, B, or C, fires all the coils if the tach output is to be trusted. So to be clear. The problem I am encountering is all the coils are firing at the same time, making the engine run really really badly. 1-6 are paired, 2-5, are paired, 3-4 are paired as A, B, and C respectively. When testing singular outputs all the coils seem to fire. Testing the other outputs (D, E, etc) do not trigger the coils. This is limited to A, B, C The tach wire was wired the same, so 1-6 is paired, 2-5 is paired, and 3-4 is paired. Logic says it can only be 1 of 3 things. 1. Wiring is messed up, all the triggers are tied together 2. Board is messed up, somehow all the triggers are tied together 3. Settings are messed up, somehow the ECU is triggering the three outputs together Wiring: I took the wiring apart to confirm. Following this link http://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/upgrading-coil-plugs-all-years-cop-writeup-12704/ My wires are for each coil 1. Common ground 2. Split trigger signal (1-6, 2-5, 3-4) 3. Split tach signal (1-6, 2-5, 3-4) 4. Common power I have checked and they are all going where they should be. Short of unplugging everything and testing continuity, I am willing to say that they follow the wiring diagram correctly. Board: I opened up the board to take a look. To my understanding the factory case has 1 native coil driver, so another two would have to be setup (a third was added to drive the boost controller). Based on the silica insulation, it looks like the boost control driver a BIP373 unit was added and two additional inputs were attached to the input, ground goes to ground, and output goes to PAD11 outputting DB5 for the boost control. PAD3 is outputting through DB10, and PAD2 is outputting DB11, PAD1 is outputting through the DB37. I haven't traced where PAD2&3 are from so no progress there. I would imagine it would be going to the other two coil drivers. I think it would be a good idea to test continuity between PAD1-3 as that would make sense on how the coils were triggering at the same time. The only point the come together however look like good clean solder points. I did notice that the jumpers are not in the correct location for the 36-1 trigger wheel Build the VR conditioner circuit, as described in Step 51 of the MegaManual. All our preassembled Megasquirts with the V3.0 or V3.57 board come with this circuit installed. Jumper TachSelect to VRIN. (V3.57: Set JP1 to the 1-2 position.) Jumper TSEL to VROUT. (V3.57: Set J1 to the 3-4 position.) You may need to adjust the VR trim pots, R52 and R56, when this is installed on a running engine. A usual base setting is to turn them all the way counterclockwise. Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN to send to IGBT ignition coil driver signal out of pin 36 on the DB37. (not needed on a V3.57) Cut out R57 if fitted (This won't be there on my units, though.). JP1 looks to be in 2-3 position J1 looks to be in the 1-2 position The settings are what I followed below Set Spark Mode to "Toothed Wheel." Set the trigger angle / offset to 0. Set Ignition Input Capture to "Falling Edge." Set Spark Output to "Going High (Inverted)." Setting this wrong can overheat the BIP373s or damage the coils. Set Number of Coils to "Wasted Spark." Set Spark A output pin to D14. Under Trigger Wheel Settings: Some settings are the same for all engines. Trigger Wheel Arrangement: Single wheel with missing teeth Trigger Wheel Teeth: 36 Missing Teeth: 1 Wheel Speed: Crank Wheel The only difference is my angle is set to 80 (8 teeth ahead) and my sensor is set to rising edge, falling edge would give me no signal, rising edge would give me an excellent signal. I have noticed that 80* is specified for 1-2 or 4 cylinders. That isn't how the ECU identifies the number of cylinders does it? That is done in the basic settings tab no? Settings: My MSQ is up a page or two back, nothing has changed. I believe the only change that could be a problem is having spark set to D14 instead of J11 or something of that nature Any thoughts? I'm planning on tracing the board to check where all the inputs are and checking continuity. Other then that I am a bit stumped. Unless the output wires are continuous to each other.

If you aren't going to use the stock routing to the filter, route them away from the exhaust, and resist the urge to T, them. As Beermanpete says the are designed to vent to atmosphere, if you block them or T-them it can make the float levels all funny. If your valve sticks you will overflow the bowl and it will squirt out of the top of the nipple. If you just have it covered and the pressure builds up it can pop off the cover and spill gas onto the hot headers and you can guess what happens.

Don't forget to move the regulator too!

Oh just realized it was you in the other post. Sorry for referring to you in the removed pronoun form. I have read that grounding to the head may be preferable for the coils, so I may play around with it. The grounding cable for the battery directly attaches to the head, so that would be a stronger ground then flowing through the chassis into the little 8/10 gauge wire that the chassis is grounded with. Granted, the engine is also grounded to the chassis, so the grounding path is pretty much all the same. I can appreciate some overkill though.

Yea that looks pretty chopped up. I might be missing it because of the focus, but do you have a return line? Basically, you should have a loop, from your fuel tank and then back to the fuel tank. Right next to the outlet of your fuel tank, there should be a fuel pump which pushes fuel throughout the loop. To feed the carbs you need to add a splice into the line. On the stock fuel rail there are two fittings on the loop, one for each carb. It is a single line, basically the splice is open so the fuel flows into it, once it fills the carb bowl, the fuel inside the bowl exerts a pressure back on the splice location, so the opening is filled and the fuel continues on its route. The regulator should be behind the fuel using device, so that it maintains pressure in the line feeding the carbs. Once the bowls are full and the line is full and exerting a pressure of 2-4psi, or whatever you have your regulator set to, the regulator opens up a bit and allows the fuel to flow through. The whole time, your fuel pump is happily buzzing away, you will only notice is picking up speed if you are really on the throttle. The pressure in the fuel rail would drop and the pump would have an easier time filling up/pressurizing the line. Right now, you are pressurizing the line in front of the carbs, your fuel pump probably doesn't make a noise change at all, it is constantly fighting against the fuel regulator with no release other then the regulator exit. And if you don't have a return line, basically once the fuel passes the regulator, it will build up pressure behind the regulator. At that point, the regulator has pressure behind it and I imagine your fuel pump would be pretty unhappy since now it is trying to push fuel down a line that is full, I imagine it would stall, or if it was advanced it would have a fuel flow back design/release valve, but on a cheap pump I don't imagine anything of that nature. Once you are using fuel, the pressure drops, and the fuel pump will be able to rotate a bit and push fuel until they are full again, it will still be fighting against the regulator though. I guess the way you have it would work, but it seems like a weird way to do it. I usually read about regulators in front of fuel using device for guys running a non return system, it puts a bit of pressure on the pump, essentially stalls it until fuel is used. Some OEM systems now a day is indeed that setup, but it has a regulator near the pump where it will shut the pump off when you reach a certain pressure, much more different then having it stall or slow down from pressure build up. I imagine your fuel pump is pretty unhappy right now.

Yes, the regulator should be after the carbs on the return line. As long as it isn't a high pressure pump, and the gph is more than 15 you should be good for the L24. I had a mr.gasket 25gph 4psi pump in mine and it worked fine when I finally figured everything out. With the stock 240z fuel rail, I didn't need the regulator to keep the carbs happy. If this is at steady cruising then you are most likely running lean all of a sudden. By turning it off, and letting the fuel pump run, you are allowing it to fill up your carbs a bit. Which indicates that the carbs are running dry, not necessarily a tuning problem. The regulator will maintain the pressure ahead of it. So right now you are maintaining the pressure in the line in front of the carb and after the fuel pump. The carbs are being filled with whatever the regulator is allowing to pass. Relocate it after the carbs if you have a non stock rail, or use the stock rail with the restrictor fitting and it should generate enough pressure to fill the bowls before returning. Honestly I think if you removed or relocate your regulator, you may fix the problem. If not, then you may be running into some crud in your tank clogging the filters or something of that nature. For SU's they ramp up from what I have seen and encountered. Different needle profiles will change that, but the stock needles will lean out the higher rpm it goes. If you are getting a cruising of 14.7 and 11 at full throttle (high rpm?), then that's pretty good, a bit on the rich side, but safe, if you are hitting 11 at high rpm at full throttle, then I think there's some tuning to be done there. I think mine was idling at 10-11, cruising at 13-14, and under full throttle it would go to 11 then work it's way up to 13 near my self imposed redline of 6000.

What's the throttle situation when it bogs? What's your current fuel system like? I'm guessing an electrical fuel pump of some sort was installed? Yes, you should probably replace the scored units. Yes, it is quite difficult to know exactly what is going on without an AFR gauge. How did the shop tune the carbs? Happen to have a picture to show us of the AFR vs rpm? Honestly, for the SU carbs, I think all AN lines would be overkill. The fuel pump only needs to push 2-4psi if memory serves, and there's a built in restrictor in the the fuel rail so some residual pressure remains. I would lean towards maybe changing out the fuel filter, and pre pump filter if your tank hasn't been cleaned. Maybe pop off the fuel line and see if you are getting a steady stream of fuel, and then go about checking the fuel pump connections to make sure they are nice and tight.

Ah, I see what you mean, I meant grounded to the chassis, not a pre-existing chassis ground, my wording was indeed misleading. I believe I did read that the sensor grounds should be dedicated. I also read that the LC-1 unit will not work reliably without grounding to the engine, but that is attached to the chassis and I have not had any problems with the unit in the past. I can try moving the coil ground and seeing if that clears up anything. Thanks guys, I have a whole new variety of things to take a look at.

I see, please don't worry, I wouldn't go about adding resistors willy nilly. Thank you for the heads up though. I will definitely take a look. Any thoughts on the reason for the ground being problematic?

Interesting some new information there, 7 turns instead of 5, and he is adjusting pot R56 instead of R52 as I did. There's some talk about 12v and 5v differences, or connecting it to Vref. Mine is connected to the ignition signal which I believe is 12v. I'll have to go look through the pictures I took of the board to see how the jumpers are set. But he did add a 1000k resistor on the pads marked Pad57. Honestly I had mine put together by diy, so I am unfamiliar with the settings or modifications they did. I did tell them I was planning on using a VR sensors before I switched to this hall effect, so there may be some differences there. I had read that the settings should be the same though. It seems like he was not getting any signal and now he is? I on the other hand have been getting a signal so perhaps these mods are already done. So things to do... Buy the capacitors and add them to the ground and power wires for the coils per instructions Check the board to see that jumpers are in the right spot and look for the resistor If resistor is missing acquire resistor and place jumpers in correct orientation Turn both pots 7 turns counterclockwise and turn R56 2 turns clockwise Acquire new battery charger Test timing output via test mode to see if the correct coil is firing, and during cranking to see if they are firing at the right location/this will also test to see if the capacitors are helping any Move coil ground? May I ask why the coils grounding to the same place as megasquirt is a worry? I really am curious. Should they be at separate locations? Or grounded to the block or something? None of my other sensors seem to be fluctuation (coolant temp, air intake temp, AFR, TPS). Do the coils just ground a lot of amps and should be located to its own dedicated ground? Tooth log attached. One thing I did notice, was that the time between teeth have gone down with the addition of the new battery by a few ms. I guess my little battery was having trouble. crank wheel adjustment.csv.zip

Oh my god, I missed out on the capacitor portion on the parts list for the coils...could that be the problem? "10,000uF capacitor (install on 12v and GND)"

Sync loss, has been much improved on this last one, I literally can get it down to only reading a sync loss when it actually looses sync, i.e. when I stop cranking. I will upload that during lunch today. This is read off of the tach signal wire for cylinder 1, so I would have to go check the other ones. I think I am getting what you are thinking of? Maybe the inputs have been switched for the other coils so that it is running with essentially what would be the equivalent of messing up your spark plug order? I can go take a look this week. My gun is supposedly a dial back light, so I should theoretically make it able to read what it is firing at. The coil packs are from a 2zzfe engine I believe 200X Toyota Matrix. http://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/upgrading-coil-plugs-all-years-cop-writeup-12704/ That is the wiring diagram I followed. Ground wire is grounding all coils to the same place as the sensor ground for megasquirt (chassis) Power wire is taken from my makeshift relay box and fed to the power wire of the coil Spark A is taken from pin 37? Spark B is taken from PAD3 and Spark C is taken from PAD2 if memory serves, I think it was discussed at some point on here, I'll have to go find the thread. I have run test mode and I can audibly here the coil firing. I haven't tried to confirm exactly where the firing is coming from though, so you may be onto something. Madkaw: any new input is appreciated. Where did you install the jumpers and the resistor if you don't mind me asking? My sensor is the threaded sensor from DIYautotune : http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/hall-effect-threaded-body-crankshaft-position-sensor-p-489.html

I followed the "how to rebuild your datsun OHC" book. I think I ended up with position two lining up the best with the timing mark for my particular engine. So as Xnke says, put it back to where the timing marks line up. Just make sure you use a good timing chain tensioner tool, if the chain falls you are going to have to take the front timing cover off, and that can be a real pain.

It can happen, I've heard more then one story of people just changing the spark plug wires around instead of going through the hassle of reclocking the oil pump. This makes it a problem when the next owner decides to take the plug wires off for some reason. If the throttle shaft isn't leaking/worn and you are familiar with the carbs, the rebuild kit is ~20$ a side for the SU carbs. I bought LM needles, gross/grosse valves, and the two rebuild kits front and back for I think 90$ + a nice synchrometer for 50$ I think. Mine ended up running pretty well so I never actually had to take them apart, I was convinced that the old fashioned method of tuning using RPM and lifting the piston wasn't as accurate and bought an LC-1 to check. Found out it was within 0.2 or 0.3 AFR of what was recommended less then half a turn of adjustment. If you choose to go the same route with the AFR meter, SU's for our cars idle rich and lean out as you rev in standard form with the stock needle on a 2.8L. Idle was hard to dial in without going to lean on the high end, I've heard the LM needles will flatten the curve so instead of 10-13.5 it is more of a 11-12 kind of curve.

People have used the stock crank pulley wheel before, I don't see why you couldn't. Megasquirt has a slot to enter in the teeth information so it can decode a variety of teeth. You could order one just in case if you have the extra 30$ to spare. You would have to find a way to mount it though. If it is an NA dizzy, it is going to have two wires going to a little black box. The little black box is called the E12-80, I'm a bit tired right now, but I believe it is an electronic ignition box, instead of a points style ignition. The E12-80 module is going to have raised letters, one with the letter C for coil and for with the letter B for battery. Right now it is stand alone, so feeding it power from the battery and letting it know when the coil is on, let's it know that the engine is running and can distribute the spark for you in whatever mechanical advance you have it set to. If you have decided to feed megasquirt the crank orientation information, you are going to have to have a way for megasquirt to also control the spark. So those two wires will be used for your coil pack as they are still helpful (one is constant power, and the other will be an ignition power wire if memory serves). I believe EDIS is a popular option, coilpacks make things more complicated but it is also a feasible option. I believe at this point it would be best if you read up on the manual as NewZed suggests. I can sit here and feed you the information, but it will be better if you can find the information yourself, plus I am new to all of this. It is a pretty good learning exercise to look at different people's msq, plus you would want to get tuner studio and take a look at how to adjust settings and update your megasquirt to the newest firmware for the newest options etc etc. Good luck.

LC-1 connected, reading within 0.1-0.2 of the gauge, but more then good enough for now. Unfortunately the way I have it wired, during cranking it resets (enters heating element mode), so I don't get a reading until after has caught and died, I think I might need to get an external power source to keep it running so I can find out exactly what is happening. I have seen it show 13-14 while running rough so the fuel mixture seems to be decent. Still no oil pressure, checked that engine has oil, checked continuity to block, just have to check continuity to signal wire. Actually killed my little battery with all the cranking activity. Pretty sure my charger also bit the fan. Not sure if one caused the other. Bought a replacement standard acid-lead battery and surprisingly that cleared up quite a bit of problems. I can get the car to catch and enter into the non crank settings. It doesn't stall as it did before. I think I finally got my sensor in the correct orientation as well. I got my sync loss down to essentially 0. Only get sync loss when I stop cranking. Here's a link to the timing video which I think is the source of all my current problems. I believe this is with the fuel injectors disconnected so I could just look at the spark timing. I'm not sure why it uploaded in vertical instead of landscape, but the timing marks are to the right in that orientation. I added a piece of white tape near the timing mark, the point is pointing towards the TDC mark, ignore the angle of the tape if possible. You can see the problems I encounter: 1. The before and after TDC timing firing pulses 2. The empty sparkless cycles Currently the car runs so rough that I had to put it on the ground so that it does not shake itself off of the jack stands. It does not stay running for very long at all, maybe 5-10 seconds at most. What I expect is seeing one mark at around 10BTDC, and then no mark (the mark should be 180 out), and then a mark at 10 BTDC alternating from the wasted spark setup. What I am seeing is a mark at 10btdc, and then another maybe 20atdc. Then long gaps of no spark. Then the correct pattern etc. This is all being read out of the tach input wire for the first coil. I've used this same cheap gun before in the past without problem, so I'm not likely to believe it is the gun especially with how rough the engine is running. If someone has seen cheap timing lights exhibit misfires, I can try a nicer one. I've played around with the center pot to try and tune out some noise, but I've found that the more I turn it the less teeth in general it picks up. According to the tooth logs, if I am reading them correctly, I am missing out on some teeth? (Tooth log will be uploaded tomorrow)

NewZed: I agree, the megamanual could use work. Surprisingly there isn't really a better per say. Both the distributor and the crank pulley are connected directly to the crank. If you were picking holes I guess the crank pulley is bolted on and the distributor is geared and then splined, so the crank pulley might be a little more accurate. We would be talking infinitesimally small though. If you have the crank pulley it would probably be easier to just go ahead and find a sensor and mount it. Saves you a lot of work. You wouldn't have to look for a stock sensor either, just a sensor that will be able to read the teeth. The two hall effect sensors on diyautotune would work, or if you are familiar with electronics, any 3 wire hall effect sensor could work as long as it had the resolution to make out the teeth.

Dude...that's exactly what I said. Megasquirt CAN get RPM from the negative terminal off a coil like a tachometer does... but it will not know where TDC is and thus CANNOT do ignition timing... OP, bottom line, in your current configuration the dizzy won't communicate with megasquirt to control ignition. I think you understand that. Your options are either to fit the correct electrical signal generator for your motor (turbo dizzy for an 82-83 block, or the crank pulley and CPS for an 81 block). I'm pretty sure you can use the turbo dizzy on the 81, but I'm unsure if the 82-83 have the mounting location for the CPS. If you take a look at the pulley and see teeth, then you are in luck, you will just need to buy a cps sensor, diyautotune has a selection you can choose from that are proven to work with megasquirt. You can also choose to mount a trigger wheel to the crank if you have an 82-83 instead of having to try and pull and re-install an 81 pulley (not sure if they are even compatible, would imagine so). I think leaving it alone for now is a good idea if that car is up and running. As long as you aren't running an aggressive fixed timing I think you will be fine for now. Definitely some power to be tapped there when the time comes. Megasquirt does indeed ground the relay signal, so you would connect it to the ground wire of the signal wire on the fuel pump relay (I believe 86 actually), 85 is the main constant ground on most relays. I'm not too familiar with the double relay, what does the other output control? Megasquirt kicks on the relay for a couple seconds when you go to ignition on, and then turns the fuel pump on when you are running. If the second output is the horn or something of that nature, you would have to keep in mind that the horn would not be available while the car is off or non-running.

I just took a quick peak through the FSM's doesn't look like any of them are connected to the ECCS, so they are not a triggering type of wheel. I'm betting the car has separate fuel and separate ignition control. Basically your ignition will not change. Megasquirt cannot communicate with your dizzy. Right now the only information regarding engine speed you are getting is from the negative of the coil so that it basically knows the speed your engine is turning at and can fire in a batch of fuel for every 6th signal. If you don't have plans on reading through the manual and getting familiar with the setup, it may be better not to involve the ignition portion of the control. You won't get the best performance/economy/adjustability out of megasquirt, but having fixed distributor should be good enough to run around with as long as you aren't pushing too much boost.

Was the car running when you bought it? If you have a turbo motor, you need the turbo distributor/turbo ignition setup. What year is the motor? What year is the NA dizzy from? In other words, if your car does indeed have an NA dizzy (I just looked through the FSM, doesn't look like any of them came with opticals except the turbo's), and the housing or rotor is not modified to send a signal instead of lighting off the spark plugs, then it is entirely possible that your car is running fuel injection control only. So as stated, nowhere to plug in your NA dizzy. If it does somehow have an optical sensor then all of my reasoning is moot, head straight down to the bottom sentence, and see if the optical wheel is 54mm and order one if the PO did not. The VR circuit I believe is the same for optical and that is how they are getting a signal. Megasquirt can get RPM from the negative terminal off a coil like a tachometer does, but it will not know where TDC is and thus cannot do ignition timing. You need a way of telling megasquirt what location the crank is in, thus a wheel of some sort that has a missing tooth or a single tooth or a gap where it can let the ECU know when it is at a specific point. You need a turbo distributor and potentially oil shaft from 82-83, or the crank pulley and crank sensor from an 81. Either that, or you can put a crank trigger wheel and find a location to mount a sensor to read off of it. If you have the optical distributors you can order a 54mm wheel that megasquirt can easily read through diyautotune.

The place where you connect the NA dizzy to megasquirt is no where. You need a turbo distributor or crank wheel at the minimum.

Very true, I imagine some leverage can come into play. My contribution: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-99-04-Grand-Cherokee-Hood-Lift-Supports-Shocks-Struts-Arms-Rod-Prop-Damper-Ram/141194004528?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D21235%26meid%3D5928231305529909920%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9374%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331166021824&rt=nc I don't think the hood on a cherokee is quite as big/heavy as ours, but I am game to give this a shot in the near future. According to one website, from end of socket to socket it is 13 inches fully extended.

Sorry misworded, I meant reduction of the power steering assist at highway speeds. I am going to chock up my feeling with having just been around hydraulic and manual steering cars my whole life. Just felt foreign to me. I would adore it at parking lot/autocross speeds, but I would probably turn it down on the freeway.

If you have compression you should be able to get the motor to essentially detonate under cranking with fuel or get it to stutter if the mixture is being lit off at the wrong time. I am doubtful that the difference would be so great that you would have to clock the oil pump shaft, but it is something to look into. If I recall there is quite a significant difference, it will be up to you to decide if the difference is the changeover from carbs to efi or from points to electrical ignition. On my L28 with carbs, I think the number I used was 16btdc? I might take a look at how the ignition wiring is done. Making sure that the coil is getting power and sending power via visual/multimeter will be the next step. Use a multimeter and confirm that the coil has power both when the car is on ignition on and during cranking. Alternatively, yes you could just hard wire the coil to the battery for testing purposes. To check that the spark is making it from distributor to coil, pop off the lead and leave a bit of a gap so you can spy the jump. Just be careful not to be anywhere near the distributor or the coil when you are checking if the wire is sending the arc. It sounds like you are familiar with the process, so my apologies if this all seems trivial or explained in too much detail.