grumpyvette

old post but it fits well here in this thread, ... as additional info now think it thru, (1)pressure is the resistance to oil flow (2) the high voluum pump can push about 25% more oil (3) the oil pump bye-pass circuit limits the max pressure in either size pump to about 65lbs-75 lbs MAXIMUM before it BYE-PASSES all additional oil voluum (4) the engine can accept and use only the max flow voluum that the engine passages can flow at the max pressure the pump provides , at any point less than max pressure the passages can flow only what the pressure and voluum provided by the pump supplies (5)if the bearing clearances can flow more than the pump provides in voluum and pressure at any rpm level the film of cooling oil that provides a cushion between the bearing surfaces are at risk of not being supported and seperated by that cushion of oil (6) now since the sweep voluum is greater with the high voluum pump it will reach that bye-pass circuits max pressure at about 25% lower rpms and supply a POTENTIALLY higher voluum of oil to the supply passages/bearings (7)SO... all a high voluum pump does is provide the maximum oil flow the engine can use up to the max pressure allowed by the bye-pass circuit at a 25% lower rpm level if the system can reach max pressure, but it also supplies 25% more oil at every rpm level below that point to provide additional cooling and protection for the engine. and if the engine can flow more than the stock pump can provide the high voluum pump helps fill the need faster (8)oil flow through the bearing clearances INCREASES at a faster rate as the rpms increase (9) in most engines the oil flow can be provided by the stock pump IF the clearances are close to stock AND THE RPM LEVELS ARE KEPT IN ABOUT THE idle-6000rpm range but if rpm levels exceed ABOUT 6000rpm,or if bearing loads greatly exceed the stock hp levels, or the clearances are greater than stock, the high volume pump is a good idea , simply because it potentially provides that extra volume of oil. any less than about a 1/4" tends to restrict oil flow into the pick-up on many oil pump pick-up pan combo designs and more than about 3/8" to about 1/2 MAX tends to allow air to be sucked under some hard brakeing or accelleration with some pan and pick up designs so a 3/8"-1/2" pick-up to pan floor clearance is what I tend to try for, Ive seen numerious cases where a high voluum pump was installed without checking the clearances (and of course the pick-up moved closer to the oil pan floor simply because the oil pump itself is longer and the pick ups deeper in the pan if its reused from the old pump)and the engine SEEMED to run out of oil pressure almost instantly on accelleration, (im sure this is what leads to the myth of pumping the pan dry, but simply swapping pick-ups and verifying the pan floor to pick-up clearances cured the lack of oil flow into the pump and restriction that was the true cause of the low oil pressure condition. remember the high voluum pumps have a deeper body to fit the longer impeller gears. this places the oil pump pickup closer to the oil pan floor if no other changes are made when swapping to a high voluum pump from the standard pump and can restrict oil flow into the pump if you choose to install a high volume oil pump you should SERIOUSLY consider the fact that the pump is only a small part of the whole oil system,(which includes a high volume BAFFLED oil pan (7qts or more is ideal) and a windage screen, which is necessary to quickly return that extra oil to the sump, and doing the distributor mod is a big help, as it prevents any potential for cam/gear wear (something already almost non-existent with synthetic oil and the proper distributor gear material.) the bye-pass spring only limits the pressure at which the bye-pass OPENS thus it only effects the upper pressure limit and has NOTHING to do with oil pressures or flow BELOW that level BTW heres an old post that will answer several questions I just got asked " I just installed a new oil pump and have no oil pressure over about 1500rpm. but IM pulling about 24 psi at IDLE?? whats wrong GRUMPY" the oil pick-up needs to be mounted between 3/8-1/2" from the oil pan floor.MOUNT THE PUMPS INTAKE TOO CLOSE TOO THE PAN FLOOR AND YOULL GET THE RESULTS YOUR SEEING! THE reason is that at low rpms the pumps pick-up can feed enought oil but speed up the pump, the flow requirement goes up and since the pick-up can,t supply the pumps needs, it cavitates and oil pressure falls rapidly to near ZERO ..untill the rpms drop back to the point where the pick-up CAN supply the pumps needs HERES MORE OIL INFO small block oil pumps generally but not in all cases have 5/8" pickup tube dia. while BIG blocks generally but not in all cases have 3/4" pickup tube dia. keep in mind that in many cases the big block pump can be bolted onto and used on the small block engine (a comon mod) and that you need to carefully check clearances on the oil pump,oil pump drive shaft to distributor length and pan to pickup clearances in all oil pump installations braze the pick-up tube to the pump body so the pick up is 3/8" MINIMUM, 1/2" maximum from the oil pan floor and use a large lump of MODELING CLAY (every mechanic should have some its great for checking clearances)on the pickup then install the pan temp. with no gasket and remove to measure the thickness of the clay your local arts/craft store sells it in 1 lb blocks I usually use brite blue or black but suit your self, a digital caliper or even a ruler will get you the thickness measurement your looking for) MOST CRAFT STORES SELL MODELING CLAY once its correctly possitioned ,remove the bye pass spring and gears from the oil pump,and have the pick-up brazeD or welded to the pump body, then after it SLOWLY AIR cools (DON,T DROP IT IN WATER LET IT AIR COOL)replace the byepass spring and gears, lube the pump,with assembly lube on the gears, check the clearances, check clearances again! and install! just be damn sure its brazed or welded in the correct location as that 3/8"-1/2" is critical to good oil voluum feeding the pick-up http://users.erols.com/jyavins/solder.htm« http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq_brazing_versus_soldering.html http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm silver soldering is basically lower temp brazeing , the soldering metal flows over the surface and into micro cracks in the surace of the other metal forming a almost unremoveable bond to the other metals surface it allows you to stick iron to steel or brass to steel, it works more or less like normal solder does on copper but at higher temps and has a much stronger grip in addition too working on iron and steel I vastly prefer the 5 BOLT BBC style pumps with the 12 tooth gears and thier larger 3/4" pick-up VS the small 4 bolt pumps with thier 5/8" pick-ups and 7 tooth gears. the oil flow is both higher pressure at low rpms and smoother in pulse presure spread,no! you don,t need it on a non-race combo, or even on some race combos but its nice to have and I willingly will loose a few hp pumping oil for better engine lubracation most comon question I get? "will a high volume oil pump help or hurt my engine?" followed by some guy saying "If you're using a stock capacity pan, the high volume oil pump could actually suck out all the oil from the pan before it is drained back in, thus creating bad, bad problems" absolutely proven false bye SMOKE YUNICK with HIGH SPEED PHOTOGRATPHY and CLEAR WINDOWS IN ROCKER COVERS AND OIL PANbut what can and does happen is the oil pump pickup can and does get mounted or moved too high or low in the oil pan,restricting access to the oil supply, sometimes the pickup comes loose or under hard acceleration or brakeing the oil in a non-baffled pan can rush away from the pickup under (G) forces, this is not pumping the pan dry, a baffled pan with a windage screen with the same oil supply volume would work perfectly ok lets look at a few things, pressure is the result of a resistance to flow , no matter how much oil is put out by the oil pump there is almost no pressure unless there is a resistance to that oil flow and the main resistance is from oil trying to flow through the bearing surface clearances and once the pumps output pressure exceeds the engines ability to accept the oilflow at the max pressure the oil return system/bypass spring allows the oil circles back through the pump ,now the amount of oil flow necessary to reach the furthest parts in the engine from the oil pump does not go up in direct relation to rpm, but it instead increases with rpm at a steadly increaseing rate that increases faster than the engine rpm due to centrifugal force draining the oil from the rods as they swing faster and faster since energy increases with the square of the velocity the rate of oil use goes up quite a bit faster due to the greatly increased (G-FORCES) pulling oil from the rod bearings over 5000rpm going to 8000rpm than the rate of oil flow increases from 2000 rpm to 5000rpm (the same 3000rpm spread) and remember the often stated (10 lbs per 1000rpm)needs to be measured at the furthest rod and main bearing from the pump not at the pump itself, next lets look at the oil flow itself, you have about 5-6 quarts in an average small block now the valve covers never get and hold more than about 1/3 to 2/3 of a quart each even at 8000 rpm (high speed photography by SMOKEY YUNICK doing stock car engine research with clear plastic valve covers prove that from what Ive read) theres about 1 quart in the lifter gallery at max and theres about 1 quart in the filter and in the oil passages in the block, that leaves at least 2 quarts in the pan at all times and for those that want to tell me about oil wrapped around the crankshaft at high rpms try squirting oil on a spinning surface doing even 2000rpm (yes thats right its thrown off as fast as it hits by centrifugal force, yes its possiable for the crankshaft WITHOUT A WINDAGE SCREEN to keep acting like a propeler and pulling oil around with it in the crank case but thats what the wrap around style milodon type windage screen is designed to stop)the only way to run out of oil is to start with less than 4 quarts or to plug the oil return passages in the lifter gallery with sludge or gasket material! now add a good windage tray and a crank scrapper and almost all the oil is returned to the sump as it enters the area of the spinning crankshaft! forming a more or less endless supply to the oil pump, BTW almost all pro teams now use DRY SUMP SYSTEMS WITH POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT GERATOR PUMPS that are 3,4,or 5 stage pumps each section of which has more voluum than a standard voluum oil pump because its been found total oil control is necessary at high rpms to keep bearings cool and lubed NOW I POSTED THIS BEFORE BUT IT NEEDs REPEATING ok look at it this way,what your trying to do here is keep an pressureized oil film on the surface of all the bearings to lube and cool them and have enough oil spraying from the rod and main bearing clearances to lube the cam and cylinder walls/rings. now a standard pump does a good job up to 5000rpm and 400 hp but above 6000rpm and 400hp the bearings are under more stress and need more oilflow to cool and because the pressure on the bearings is greater you need higher pressures to maintain that oilfilm.lets look at the flow verus pressure curve. keep this in mind, good oil flow volume across the bearing surfaces to cool and luberacate them and to provide a boundry layer between the metal surfaces is more important than the pressure reached at all rpms. since oil is a liquid its non-compressable and flow will increase with rpm up to the point where the bypass circuit starts to re-route the excess flow at the point were the pressure exceeds the bypass spring pressure. but the voluum will be equal to the pumps sweep voluum times the rpm of the pump, since the high voluum pump has a sweep voluum 1.3-1.5 times the standard pump voluum it will push 1.3-1.5 times the voluum of oil up to the bypass cicuit cut in point,that means that since the engine bearings leakage rate increases faster as the rpms increase because the clearances don,t change but the bleed off rate does that the amount of oil and the pressure that it is under will increase faster and reach the bypass circuit pressure faster with the high voluum pump. the advantage here is that the metal parts MUST be floated on that oil film to keep the metal parts from touching/wearing and the more leakage points the oil flows by the less the voluum of oil thats available for each leakage point beyond it and as the oil heats up it becomes easier to push through the clearences.now as the rpms and cylinder preasures increase in your goal to add power the loads trying to squeeze that oil out of those clearances also increase. ALL mods that increase power either increase rpms,cylinder preasures or reduce friction or mechanical losses. there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard chevy engine. 16 lifter to push rod points 16 pushrod to rocker arm points 32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends 10 main bearing edges 9 cam bearing edges 16 rod bearing edges 2 distributor shaft leaks 1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.) so the more oil voluum the better.chevy did an excelent job in the design but as the stresses increase the cooling voluum of the extra oil available from the larger pump helps to prevent lubracation delivery failure, do you need a better pump below 5000rpm or 400hp (hell no! at that level the stock pump works fine) above that level the extra oil will definitely helppossiable deficient oil flow and bearing cooling and a simple increase in pressure does not provide a big increase in voluum that may be necessary to keep that oil film in the correct places at the correct voluum at all times.the stock system was designed for a 265cid engine in a passenger car turning a max of about 6000 rpm but only haveing the stress of under 300hp transmitted to the bearings, Im sure the orriginal designers never thought that the sbc or bbc would someday be asked to on occasion hold up to 450-800hp and 6000-8000 rpm. nore did they forsee valve springs that placed sometimes as much as 500lbs and up loads on the lifters and the use of over 9 to 1 compression ratios in the original design so the oil voluums and pressures necessary to cool those valve springs and bearings at those stress levels were never taken into account for that either , the stock pump works but was never designed for the loads and rpms that a modern engine hotrodded to over 450hp sees the standard volume pump gears are about 1.2" long the high volume pump gears are about 1.5 inches long (depends on manufacturer) heres the discriptions right from chevy 12555884 SBC Oil Pump, High Pressure Z28/LT1. Production high-pressure oil pump with 1.20" gears.Will produce 60-70 psi oil pressure. Does not include screen. The pickup tube dia. is 5/8" for this pump. 62.17 14044872 SBC Oil Pump, High-Volume. This high-volume pump has1.50" long gears.It has approximately 25% more capacity than a production pump at standard pressure. Does not include screen. and yes I comonly build small blocks useing bbc oil pumps like the ls7 pump, it has 1.3" gears but they are bigger in dia. and have 12 not 7 teethlike the small block pumps (many standard sbc pickups use 5/8" dia. pickups) (the ls7 pump is best used on 8qt-9qt road racing oilpans as the larger 3/4" pickup flows lots of oil for extreme high rpm engines with a multi baffled pan useing windage screens, scrappers and cut outs for extreme (G) loads where a dry sump can,t be used or cost makes you stick to a wet sump pan. these LS7 pumps dont fit most sbc oil pans so your stuck using the high volume sbc oil pump if your not using a true racing 8-9 qt style oil pan in some cases since I just got an E-MAIL about what mods are necessary or at least a good idea when running a high volume oil pump, and concern over possiable extra gear wear caused by the slightly and I do mean slightly increased pressure on the gears, guys Im getting the idea here that most of you are not aware that your normally suppose to cut a .060 wide x .005-9 deep grouve in the lower band on the distributor houseing so that extra oil sprays constantly on the contact point between the cam and distributor gears and that a ARP style drive shaft with a steel collar to hold the dirveshaft alignment on true center is mandatory for long high rpm use. look at this picture: The grouve is cut under the bottom (O)ring in the band just above the gear (look at the picture above, (BTW the pic shows a smaller grouve than ideal)) and in line with the gears so that oil sprays on the gear contact points at all times, this is a mod most old time racers know about and use, but Im getting the idea the new guys have not picked up on it! (those two bands form the side of an oil passage in the block and the distributor shaft seals that passage, cutting the grouve sends a spray of high pressure oil onto the contact point at all times, if you dont cut the grouve your relieing on returning zero pressure oil flowing down the rear lifter gallery drain holes to lube the gears BTW the other way to do this is to grouve the block in the distributors lower band area as this keeps the location of the oil jet constant as the distributor is turned, for a full contact spray on the gears so I generally do BOTH btw heres more OIL info http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar10180.htm http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/default.asp http://www.melling.com/select/oil_pumps_gm_chevy_small_block.asp img]http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Engine_Blocks/images/12480157.gif[/img] one or at the most two of outer plugs for the oil passages plugs above the cam, drill a .030-.038 hole in one or both , naturally the one on the left is prefered as the rotation favors that side for spraying oil eveywhere under the timing cover BTW DRILL the removed oil passage plugs, while they are clamped between a couple boards with a drill press If you can, you don,t want metalic shavings in the engine don,t get too wrapped up in worring about which oil is superior, keep in mind oils main function is to provide a lubracating film and transfer absorbed heat,away from the moving parts, almost ANY of the name brand oils do that well and ALMOST ANY oil will last at least 5000 miles without significant loss of its abilities to do that if the filters used keep the particals in it minimized AND the temp stays in the 190F-250F range. but like I stated earlier, oil needs to get up to 215F at least for a short time to burn off moisture, and above about 240F it slowly brakes down, its the regular replacement with clean oil , to remove the crud from the engine and good filters thats the key! EVEN if you had the best oil in the world, that could easily last 30K-35K miles the CRUD & acids trapped in the oil from cumbustion,would cause wear and reduce its lubration abilities over time, if the filters don,t remove the majority of that crud the oils life expectancy is limited reguardless of the oil quality itself , and regular replacement is the key TWEAKING THE SYSTEM since I just got an E-MAIL about what mods are necessary or at least a good idea when running a high volume oil pump, and concern over possiable extra gear wear caused by the slightly and I do mean slightly increased pressure on the gears, guys Im getting the idea here that most of you are not aware that your normally suppose to cut a .060 wide x .005-9 deep grouve in the lower band on the distributor houseing so that extra oil sprays constantly on the contact point between the cam and distributor gears and that a ARP style drive shaft with a steel collar to hold the dirveshaft alignment on true center is mandatory for long high rpm use. look at this picture: The grouve is cut under the bottom (O)ring in the band just above the gear (look at the picture above, (BTW the pic shows a smaller grouve than ideal)) and in line with the gears so that oil sprays on the gear contact points at all times, this is a mod most old time racers know about and use, but Im getting the idea the new guys have not picked up on it! (those two bands form the side of an oil passage in the block and the distributor shaft seals that passage, cutting the grouve sends a spray of high pressure oil onto the contact point at all times, if you dont cut the grouve your relieing on returning zero pressure oil flowing down the rear lifter gallery drain holes to lube the gears BTW the other way to do this is to grouve the block in the distributors lower band area as this keeps the location of the oil jet constant as the distributor is turned, for a full contact spray on the gears so I generally do BOTH Mark a straight-ahead position on the outside of the distributor body to use as a reference mark for the distributors placement in the engine. Use this orientation to position the oil groove. Remember that the cam is on the drivers side of the distributor. Crane suggests cutting a .030-inch-wide by .030-inch-deep slot in the lower band of the distributor housing to direct a spray of oil onto the camshaft and distributor gears. YOU can Use a Dremel tool to cut the slot into this distributor. Thought I'd best add that you would be ahead by disassembling the distriburor first & clean the debris out before you re-assemble ,but you already know that ITS just a tip for improving the oil flow to the distributor, GEARS TO PROMOTE LONGER LIFE,BUT it HELPS a good deal with cam/distributor gear life so its a STANDARD MOD I always do! (keep in mind youll want the grouve location to spray oil into the gear teeth contact area and that requires YOU to carefully match the notch location to the contact area WHEN the distributor is fully seated and timed correctly, moving the distributor timing moves the oil spray pattern area so the time taken too CAREFULLY CUT a second shallow grouve in the block , on the lower band where the distributor seats and seal the oil passage as a secondary extra presureized oil spray source spraying oil onto the gear contact area,that can,t move seems like an even better IDEA . having twin high pressure oil jets spraying oil into the gears helps slow potential wear Mark a straight-ahead position on the outside of the distributor body to use as a reference mark for the distributor’s placement in the engine. Use this orientation to position the oil groove. Remember that the cam is on the driver’s side of the distributor. Crane suggests cutting a .030-inch-wide by .030-inch-deep slot in the lower band of the distributor housing to direct a spray of oil onto the camshaft and distributor gears. YOU can Use a Dremel tool to cut the slot into this distributor. Thought I'd best add that you would be ahead by disassembling the distriburor first & clean the debris out before you re-assemble ,but you already know that ITS just a tip for improving the oil flow to the distributor, GEARS TO PROMOTE LONGER LIFE,BUT it HELPS a good deal with cam/distributor gear life so its a STANDARD MOD I always do! (keep in mind youll want the grouve location to spray oil into the gear teeth contact area and that requires YOU to carefully match the notch location to the contact area WHEN the distributor is fully seated and timed correctly, moving the distributor timing moves the oil spray pattern area so the time taken too CAREFULLY CUT a second shallow grouve in the block , on the lower band where the distributor seats and seal the oil passage as a secondary extra presureized oil spray source spraying oil onto the gear contact area,that can,t move seems like an even better IDEA . having twin high pressure oil jets spraying oil into the gears helps slow potential wear one or at the most two of outer plugs for the oil passages plugs above the cam, drill a .030-.038 hole in one or both , naturally the one on the left is prefered as the rotation favors that side for spraying oil eveywhere under the timing cover comp cams sells this tool (below)to grouve the lower lifter bores so they spray a good steadl flow of pressurized oil onto the cam lobes just before the lobe passes under the lifter base, its a good mod and well worth the effort if you want a bit extra insurance to prevent lifter wear on flat tappet cams http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html

BTW if you go to change the valve springs with the heads still on the engine, most guys use the hose they use to do a compression check and the spark plug adapter and pump the cylinder up with about 125 psi of air to hold the valves shut while they do it, yeah it usually works just fine. (yeah theres a differant method) (1)disconnect the battery (2) remove the spark plugs, and rocker arms (3)turn the first cylinder to BDC BYE HAND or someplace close to that (4) insert one end of 5 ft of 3/8" rope into the cylinder thru the sparkplug hole and be sure you tie a KNOT in the other end (5) rotate BYE HAND,the engine until the rope compresses against the valves holding them in place (6)REPLACE THE SPRINGS on that cylinder while the valves are held to the combustion chamber roof (7)rotate the cylinder back to BDC (8)pull out the rope (repeat 7 more times):thumbsup: :laughing: yeah! the air USUALLY works but I don,t trust it EITHER, I want those valves locked from falling into the cylinder PHYSICALLY:D :thumbsup: BTW youll want one of these or something similar http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D906784&autoview=sku IVE done it both ways many times, Ive never trusted the air alone but Ive used it without problems in the past, the ropes usually not a problem,, and yeah theres the potential for it to tangle but I have not had that happen either

you can do what I do, buy the pan below, and modify it , at the MINIMUM FOR A CORVETTE,you need to cut the front lower edge lower corner ,1" wide at a 45 degree angle, and re-weld in a plate so it clears the front cross member., now I also extended the sump forward untill it was within 3" of the front of the oil pan, to increase the capacity to 10 qts another good example of why a shop welder is so valuable, you can build a decent oil pan for under 1/2 the price you can buy one for:thumbsup: naturally on a datsun/chevy combo swap, the mods necessary may be differant, http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=15120K&line=MWM http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=150 http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296 you don,t need to spend big bucks on a baffeled road racing oil pan if you can weld , measure and fabricate, keep in mind a higher capacity baffled oil pan and windage screen are good insurance against oil related problems. on a CORVETTE the ground to lower block clearance better not exceed 7.5" with 7.25 being better and 7" about ideal for road clearance, but be aware that factors like the suspension, K-MEMBER and other under car obsticals unique to that model will influence your sellection and so will your stroke and windage tray height or main caps so ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE you buy I GENERALLY BUY A DECENT CIRCLE TRACK DESIGN PAN then MODIFY it to the application,as its far easier than starting from scratch, adding or moving the sump,baffles etc. BTW you can use tape and poster,cardboard to mock up ideas and potential changes, and use as patterns when folding the sheet steel you acctually use in the oil pans modification, but be sure to work with the starter exhaust and suspension clearances being checked frequently,and access to the pan bolts in mind, these circle track pans generally make an excellent starting point, and these guys are great to deal with http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=7101R&line=WYS http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=15120&line=MWM for example on my vette I needed to cut and weld a patch of a 1" wide 45 degree bevel on the front lower edge, as the pans orriginal lower front edge hit the k-frame , the sump to clear the K-MEMBER clearance needed that mod. and I extend the sump forward 4",added baffles and add a second side sump, to get to the 10qt volume I wanted in my race engine heres a factory version for $240 without the forward extended sump but with the side sump, keep in mind your times worth something, but you can build a decent racing oil pan for under $120 vs $240 for the smaller capacity factory version http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=CP100LT&line=MWM BEST NOT AS A BEGINERS FIRST WELDING PROJECT , BUT IF YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIANCE AND SKILL ITS FAR FROM DIFFICULT, be sure to weld while the pans mounted to the block if you can to minimize warping due to heat distortion http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D21950&N=700+0&autoview=sku Moroso 21950 http://www.qmpracing.com/qmpcatalog/product_info.php?products_id=15879 "i have a question, how do you know your new oil capacity with a custom pan?" GOOD QUESTION, with a simple answer you temporaraly install the oil pan with the windage screen in place with a large lump of modeling clay (use wax paper on the windage screen) between the lower edge of the windage screen and the pan , remove the oil pan and mark the inside wall edge of the oil pan at that height, PLUS about 1/8" higher with a majic marker where the compressed clay shows the windage screen compressed the clay, this is the location of the windage screens lower edge in the oil pan plus 1/8" while its installed, remove the clay and fill the pan use an empty quart bottle from your last oil change, count the number of qts, WRITE THE TOTAL DOWN,THATS your new capacity, remember the true oil level while the engine runs will be about 1" lower as theres about one and one half too two quarts in the upper engine at any time while it runs, so the working levels below the windage screen,and the oil filter should also remove some volume as the oil passages fill and pressurize so the windage screen never has oil sitting in it while its running once youve installed the oil pan and filled it with the correct amount of oil and before you start the engine, insert your dipstick and mark it at that oil level. BTW if you don,t have a lbs of modling clay for checking clearances in engines get a lb having some skills ,a few hours with a decent welder, some poster board and tape for a pattern and some 14 ga sheet steel are about all thats keeping that pan you have from holding 7-9 qt capacity one of my more creative friends buys two of these at the ,local mill surplus http://www.armysurplusworld.com/product.asp?ProductID=921 and cuts and welds them into the sides of stock oil pans after careful measurement for clearance to headers,starter, frame etc, to form two extended horizontal side sump extensions that save him some welding time, he says you can,t buy the steel alone for that price let alone get the sump partly pre-welded but theres good deals available if you don,t weld, and don,t have a stock oil pan to start with as a base http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=7101R&line=WYS but TAKE the time to mock it up and measure clearances carefully with the engine,exhaust, starter, oil filter, etc in the car to prevent having to make extensive mods after you start, you can use cardboard and tape to make trial sump designs theres plenty of epoxy based , high temp and oil resistant paints or coatings that can be used, you could even resort to powder coatings but Ive yet to see the need. and yes I usually paint the outside surfaces with a decent engine paint after sanding/grinding down the welds and useing J&B weld to smooth the outer surface of the weld and seal any potential pin holes in the welds so you have a very hard time seeing where its welded from looking over the outside surface. I bought the TIG welder MOSTLY so I could get into fabricating aluminum components but I still find myself useing a oxy-acetolene torch most of the time and useing steel oil pans, simply because I usually start with an aftermarket STEEL oil pan as the base I start from, and then fabricate an extensive sump and baffles THIS IS WORTH READING THRU http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/baffle.htm BTW if your just looking to buy vs build other sources http://www.kevkoracing.com/ http://www.stefs.com/stefsindex.htm http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorybrowse.asp?CatCode=11000 http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/oil-pans-from-milodon.asp http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/ http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1289/SBC-MODIFIED-%26-STREET-STOCK-WET-SUMP-PANS http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1833/SB_CHEVY_CIRCLE_TRACK_6-1%3A%3A2%22_OIL_PAN http://www.billetfab.com/pans.htm http://www.bakerengineeringinc.com/ProCam.html#wetsump http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm

Im assuming its lousy humour, if its not........YOUR CORRECT...YOUR NOT ONLY PISS POOR MECHANICS .......YOUR REALLY BAD COMICS

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/otto-c.htm you might want to read this

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0802_chevy_intake_manifold_porting/index.html http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/1181-porting-school-6-secrets-reduce-valve-shrouding.html#post5343 http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.aspx http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/general/139_0305_port_matching_engine_porting/index.html http://speedtalk.com/shows/027_jim_mcfarland.html http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518_small_block_cylinder_head_porting/index.html http://www.gmtips.com/3rd-degree/dox/tips/plen-port/port.htm http://www.bfranker.badz28.com/96ss/58porting.htm http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/plenum/ http://www.diyporting.com/molds.html http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/12/MakingMolds/index.php

thanks thats a very informative post , with good pictures and I appreciate the effort it took

some free engine related downloads http://www.powerperformancenews.com/forum/camquest-6-cam-selection-software-now-230.html http://www.virtualengine2000.com/ http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/downloads/downloads.htm http://racingdownloads.com/

Understanding cam timing http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm http://www.howstuffworks.com/camshaft1.htm http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/cam-basics.html http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_9811_camshaft_tech_valve_timing_piston_movement/index.html http://www.auto-ware.com/combust_bytes/valvetiming.html http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0606em_camshaft_specs/index.html http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95298_camshaft_lobe_phasing/index.html

LOOKs NICE! I got a chuckle about the FRAM filter, I started to say something about "what the #$%%^^ was he thinking???" but read further and see its just a space saving test mule......

hope that helps

BTW when you go to buy a ring compressor....this type works far better than the others http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D66766&N=700+115&autoview=sku Proform 66766 $31 how they work is you clamp it around your piston and adjust it to that size before the rings are installed so the piston is a snug slide thru fit, then, install the rings, dip the rings and piston in clean oil, place the compressor over the cylinder on the block with the base firmly held against the block deck and push the piston into its much larger open enterance, as it slides thru the funnel like construction squeezes the rings into the grouves and they can,t spring back out untill they are in the bore, remember to line up the rod bolts and having them covered with the ends of a 3 ft long section or 3/8" fuel line to protect the crank journal is a good idea, having a ROD GUIDE TOOL you can use to guide and PULL THE PISTON INTO THE BORE WITH IS EVEN A BETTER IDEA youll be surprised at how much easier they slide into the bore if you BOTH pull/guide and push the pistons into the cylinders rather than just beat them in with a hammer handle, it takes some practice but a few taps to get them moving with a fist, while pulling and guiding the rod into its journal is usually all that necessary with a well oiled piston and that type of ring compressor

you WON,t get the results you after with that kit!

yes ITs completely within the realm of possibility and done correctly the combo above should easily exceed 400 plus hp, depending on the components used and the care of assembly. my personal opinion, is those THUMPER cams are a bad JOKE for WANTABEES...even COMP CAMS will suggest some of thier OTHER designs if MAX HP/TQ is the goal rather than building an engine solely for cruiseing around the local car show parking lot in idle, with a lopey sound you don,t need to get all "HIGH TECH & expensive" to make a decent engine combo, but you do need to match the cam timing to the compression ratio, rear gearing, head flow rates and trans stall speed if you hope to have some combo thats reasonably effective light weight cars using reworked fuelie heads on decent combos have occasionally run fairly well, now those heads are 40 year old technology and restrictive by todays standards but they still have some potential with a high compression ratio and a cam like that listed above with the mandatory matched , engine & drive line components and its MANDATORY too have the correct clearances on the heads and correct springs and valve train geometry, having a car that can run in the 12s should be easy, and faster is certainly possiable let me know what your thinking and Im sure that with a few tweaks we can get that combo to run decent times once the heads are reworked, and youve got the combo set up, but to run a killer cam like that youll need the rest of the combo to match its effective opperational rpm band. and before you ask! NO! you can,t ignore doing some of the listed mandatory mods or leave out components and expect it to work correctly

if youve got at least a TRUE STATIC 10.5:1 cpr,and your determined to have a lopey idle....you can run this cam http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=110921&lvl=2&prt=5 and get the lope you want, but! .....to do that youll need a few MINIMUM other components to match or be modified (1) the proper valve springs and clearance work on the heads for a .600 lift, (remember you need a minimum of .050 over valve lift) (2)a 3000 rpm stall converter (3) a decent performance rear gear ratio, in a 3.73:1-4.56:1 range (4)real HEADERS would be a BIG help, as would 1.6:1 roller rockers (5) the heads @ lifters I suggested in the other thread would be as huge help,with your build, but at least use the lifters, correct clearances and springs and get those fuelie heads re-worked (pocket porting your fuelies won,t hurt either) heads http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/102...760699%7C10187 lifters http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...umber=651080DL (6)youll need to learn how to tune an engine and correctly lash solid lifters if you do that, the car won,t run well below about 3000 rpm so youll need the high stall converter, but from 3000-6500rpm youll notice it pulls a bit better

"[*]What is a reasonable lift and duration for stock fuelie (camel-hump) heads? UNTOUCHED STOCK, about .475 lift is maxId suggest [*]Is it necessary to upgrade the valvetrain for a cam upgrade, or only for serious builds? ITS always a good idea on 40 year old cylinder heads and springs and making sure the clearances and spring load rates match the cams only reasonable, plus your LONG over due for spring upgrades on 40 year old heads [*]At what point will I need to upgrade my fuel system from the mechanical pump I'm currently using? generally either when you experiance problems or intend to exceed about 400 hp with a stock system [*]Is there anything I'm missing? Now, I did search and found a bunch of info, but very very little of it was geared toward the sbc specifically. What have you guys used for your builds? How successful did it turn out? well the first thing ID point out is that (LOPE)& (RUMBLE) in the idle that you crave is due to reversion pulses at low rpms and too much durration and overlap too allow the engine to run well at low rpms, AND a HIGH COMPRESSION RATIO cylinder, bleeding off exhaust pressure, and if the compression and head flow rates won,t support the intended HIGH rpm opperation the cams designed for, youve just screwed up both ends of your power curve potential installing a high rpm cam in a low compression ratio flow restricted engine read thru this,theres a good bit of useful info...slaping a radical cam in an otherwise stock engines, to get it to lope noticably, is basically not going to do much good for the combo http://www.chevyasylum.com/chp/

I ran accrossed this chart that might prove useful as a rough guide, and don,t forget this thread, and ITS sub-links http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=131390&highlight=plugs

heads http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1021004/10002/-1/760699%7C10187 cam http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/cam_finder.php?part_num=00321&x=18&y=6 lifters http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=651080DL stall converter http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60401/10002/-1

thats generally good advice but depending on your intended use of the car it may need to be tweaked a bit, since your basically asking for instructions on a decent combo, ID sure like to know more about the intended use for the car , and any restrictions like the car needing to pass emmision testing etc,and your reasonable budget for the project, now since its an auto trans Id strongly suggest first setting a hp goal to shoot for and sellecting a parts list to reach that goal within your budget and skill levels, and Id point out that that 3.90:1 rear is a nice asset in a performance application but youll want a 3000 rpm stall speed converter and about a 10.5:1 cpr and a solid lifter flat tappet cam to take full advantage of that rpm range and ythose 200 cc heads.....post all the info you can on the car, your goals and what your budget and skills are, it will help, BTW almost any HYDROLIC cam is going to be much more limited than a decent flat tappet solid lifter cam, simply because the hydrolics generally max out at about 6000-6300rpm and a decent solid flat tappet lifter cam easily hits 6800-7000rpm with the correct springs and valve train geometry

"What type of ratios were you using in this methane/toluene mix?" 13.7:1 and 13.9:1 on the two BBC engines I built to race with, in my 1968 vette, btw http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html mixing the two and adding it as an octane booster to race gas vertually eliminates detonation but get a bit to much and throttle responce suffers when the compression ratio and cam are not high enough and your jetting the EFI or carb to match the air flow is mandatory and keeping the engine hot enough can be a problem untill you get some experiance ballancing the factors, and ignition curves will necessarily change, but get it right and youll have a very powerful combo, keep in mind methanol or ethanol alcohol run much cooler and richer a/f ratios, youll spend a good deal of time tunning and don,t forget to flush the fuel lines with gas after, letting ethanol or methanol sit and collect moisture screws up aluminum fast!

I used to run a mix of METHANOL and TOLUENE in my BBC race engine, trust me on one thing, alcohols VERY coarrosive, and absorbs water like a sponge. it makes the engine run much cooler and if you get the fuel/air mix just right it produces very good power, easily 10% better than pure gas, and detonations almost a non-factor with that mix.

youll need about 12.5:1-14:1 cpr and run the fuel thru at about 35%-40% higher rates in the air/fuel; ratio to maximize the alcohols potential,(depends on the blend, but are you aware alcohol tends to screw up many rubber,plastic, steel and aluminum parts? are you aware ethanol absorbs moisture from the air? In other words, for the same energy content as one liter or one gallon of gasoline, one needs 1.6 liters/gallons of ethanol , Although actual fuel consumption doesn't increase as much as energy content numbers indicate. because the compression tends to be lower and the fuel is a mixed blend of the two, which is nearly mandatory to prevent corroasion, on the plus side emissions tend to drop and the engine tends to run cooler. run a high alcohol content and RUST and corroasion in your tanks, fuel lines and carbs/injectors can be and frequantly is a problem

some electric fuel pumps quickly heat up and loose effective pressure if the regulator won,t allow a constant flow of fuel thru them to absorb and carry away heat, thats one of the many reasons a bye-pass regulator with a decent size fuel line from and returning too the tank is a superior design. dead head regulators just don,t generally work very effectively anyway, and you need to use the correct fuel line and filter, a 7/16"-1/2" inside dia. will supply most HIGH performance SBC engines, you can get by in many cases with dual 3/8" inside dia lines for a mild upgrade but the common 5/16" lines almost always pose a restriction read http://www.centuryperformance.com/fuelish-tendencies-understanding-fuel-pressure-and-volume-spg-140.html

ITS not generally HP but RPMS or lack of lubracation to the bearings that kills rods, I know guys with turbo cars that have carefully reworked stock rods pushing over 700 hp but they don,t generally exceed 6300rpm, rods generally fail in TENSION when the rod or rod bolts stretch /stretchs not in compression due to cylinder pressure. thats why the 7/16" rod bolts are so much better, as the bolts are the weakest component in most designs on the compression stroke the whole rod structure resists deformation on the exhaust stroke the rod bolts are playing crack the whip and the rods trying to keep the piston from pulling/distorting it maybe 25-40 thousands it takes to prevent head to piston contact, and the bearing shells from distorting ,under the load so they don,t loose the oil pressure support, if the rod elongates and hits the head or valves in valve float bad things cascade into worse things fast. the rod bolt cross setional area is generally far smaller than the rod itself and if the piston compresses the rod a few thousands on the power stroke there not much effected, but let the rod stretch and bad things happen real fast. a 7/16" rod bolt is about 20% larger in cross section than a 3/8" rod bolt and the L19 ARP steel in the better rod bolts is easily 50%-100% stronger than the stock rod bolt steel in many cases, giving a decent aftermarket cap screw rod design a significant strength advantage

Ive always suggested buying a complete ballanced rotating assembly from a single name brand source like LUNATI , CROWER, SCAT,OLIVER,EAGLE, HERBERT PERFORMANCE,OHIO CRANK, or several other sources, but even supposedly factory ballanced assemblies need to be checked as Ive seen some (SUPPOSEDLY BALLANCED) assemblys that were obviously just matched weight components