Modern Motorsports Ltd

Jeff, what were your short and long term goals for this project? (I don't recall if you did say) $50 deals can grow to a grand or more pretty fast. If your budget is tight you may want to keep looking for another motor and just accept your $50 loss (may get that for core fee). It's a great option IMO how you can install a cheap/decent used motor and do all the conversion work and later on as funds are available build up the motor you want, meanwhile driving a fun V8Z the whole time:-) (what I did) Your mech. may have thought the vortec's 64cc might result in too high a comp. ratio (but if you need new rods that should still be variable??). The Vortec's go on any normal/older sbc block with no mods. You do need the newer intake (not much chance used their, others you can get %70 new and below) which ads to the cost. And for expandibility mods to the vortecs as mentioned to get into any midline lift. If you go with alum. heads the edelbrock seem to have the best quality IME. I found too many Twisted wedge crack/return stories to go with their 'newer' product, maybe it's improved in the past two years. Also seemed odd the chevy mags have many edel. heads on motors in articles but I v. rarely read about a TW head. I would not go with the Vette L98 heads (old design now), vortecs outflow them handily. The L98 sluggish exhaust ports are the reason the ZZ4 cam has such a dual pattern/higher exhaust duration on it (accomodates slow exhaust on L98 ports). The money to step to an edelbrock Al. head or similar is v. well spent if Al. is desired. good luck

oh yeah, food for thought I had a 'clunk' that I wasn't noticing going into gear/low speed shifts a trans guy noticed. Turned out my driveline geometry was less than optimal (still is) and the input/output bushing (or something...not my area) on trans was getting worn prematurely...in any case their was some play allowing this minor 'torque' to klunk as it loaded/unloaded the driveshaft. Doesn't take long to create that clunk either..worked fine for 4 yrs after it first came about...his fix didnt' last long as I haven't got to correcting that alignment (my motor spacers got centre after one reinstall after pain by others, not in the proper JTR offset....., then I duplicated it this last spring/doh!)

What's that Aztec weigh Mike? That sounds like a fair price for a a light strong wheel. My momo's aren't heavy but I'm sure you want the lightest wheels you can get for max handling and hp for your 180mph goals. Oh yeah, what profile treads you planning to run? (wondering what weight penalty you might give up going 17's instead of 16's, RX7TT's out east racing fell behind their 16" equals with slower speed at the end of straights and greater braking distance requirements, when they strictly went to 17's with a mild weight penalty, having given up their great light/strong OE 16" rims). Probably not a factor with your hp but at 180mph I'm not sure how significant many things are But the one thing I never mentioned that applies more to some others than Mike's situation....I went with 5 lug and adaptors for the ease of running MULTIPLE sets of wheels and acquiring them cheaply. I have two sets now, identical 16x8's I got cheap and so suspension can all stay at same settings if I have my R compounds or streets on or all seasons (yes it snow a day or two up here). It's also very easy to act on the deals ricers often throw away (like both my sets of rims:-) whether you want their rims/tires or both....if you might get into two or more tire/wheel setups it can payoff in tire swapping changes and inconvenience real fast IMO. Saves on risk of damage to the wheels by tire monkey's as well:-) Just food for thought whether you're looking at 16/17/18's etc, deals are out their and if you can easily change b/t setups (I could bolt on a 17x8 zero offset or up to +55 this afternoon for ie. in the v. common 5x4.5 pattern, just wish GM was on that tooo). [This message has been edited by Ross C (edited December 12, 2000).]

Great to hear it's going:-) HP Books 'Rochester Carbeurators by Doug Roe' is a good qjet book As Frank says the mixture screws affect idle/light throttle in varying ways. What worked really well for me on tuning my qjet for light throttle was this... -start with screws where they are or go all thy way in and then out as Frank says (don't turn in too tight! you can damage them), then progressively turn in both screws a 1/4 turn -take it out and in 1st gear run it up to 3k/4k rpm or so and back right off....when you back off if you get an intake 'popcorn' you're lean, if not lean progressively go in until you are, once you are back one out at a time 1/8 turn until the popcorn (you'll hear some harmless popping at the air filter area) is gone and I found that my best set. This assumes your timing etc is close in the ballpark as retarded timing can have similar symptoms so's you know. (found this worked great before I started getting more of the tools I have now) Do you plugs look v. rich? If they do then your idle/part throttle is rich as you say. (unless you shut off right after full throttle it's pretty much idle/light throttle you'll read on them, other than left over damage from WOT). Are your secondaries coming in fine? (ie. no bog) if so great....If you get into the secondaries/rods/hangars I have collection of parts if you need a different combo. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Head: Hey Jeff, I've done a little research on 280zx headers. I've been looking for some that really hug the block, because I only have 2.5" between the block and the steering box (I have a 1980 model). These I found, but they're a tad expensive. ~Brian Can you fit header pipes (4 tubes) in 2.5" allowing for engine movement/install/removal etc? Can you drop them down closer to your firewall down in front of your oil filter etc? I've compromised on exhaust a couple times now and wasted a LOT of money FWIW, hope others have better luck.

Well what didn't flow well but was v. quiet: 2.5" Y to 2.5" single behind trans to a 2.5" bottle and then turbo muffler. Removing the bottle/resonator brought it back to normal power levels. (I'd wanted 3" bottle/exhaust after single....bad experience with the shop!) A fella in California with a kickass 280z V8 (Dustin) had dual 2.5" to a single 3" behind his 700R4 (yes he does autox and RR very well)and then a long 3" resonator of unremembered brand..into a 2 chamber flowmaster. He said he was told a 3chamber will restrict above 350 or so hp. He's running a lumpy 400sbc so went with 2chamber. His system sounded good at WOT but fine/reasonable (and I"m picky) at idle/cruise and I'd be really happy with same results.

'pantera' piece by Arizona Z Car is all that comes to mind, do a web search and they'll come up, min. $1k order though as I recall...

You didn't mention halfshafts or driveshaft U joints....did the diff have slop before you tore it apart? ie. rotational play on any of 3 input/outputs with others fixed? hopefully others can offer more...and not too sound stupid but you're sure the SLAM you heard under the running car on stands was the same KLUNK you hear while driving? I've heard many noises under a running car on stands I've never heard on the road. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Ditto John on having them v. clean before applying their sealant. ALSO make sure the block threads are v. clean, I sprayed brake cleaner down mine (small amounts) to help clean them out. Not sure that helps as I'm sure you did the above anyhow but FWIW, I've had not troubles with my Pioneer head studs on two motors now. Used some generic stuff on the first motor and they were HARD to remove for the 2nd. Cleaned/soaked etc etc and used Loctite PST on the 2nd one (was going to get the GM stuff, but Loctite PST is the same and cheaper) and it's still fine...it was a bit hard AIR to get enough loctite on the threads but not too much so I didn't have a lot of cleanup to do before head gasket placement etc. both motors 9.4:1 compression, one cam with v. little overlap and a little more on current setup..17 lb cap AIR Ross (head studs are cool )

PSS my first motor cost me $800US total, would've been $525 but I paid for new cam/springs and timing chain to be installed. It was straight out of a '68 camaro (327) and ran fine for me. Finally pulled it this last spring thinking I should replace it as it must be wearing out...(it's my only car/daily driver) with a 350 I'd been building and I've now inspected that 327 and it probably would've gone another 100k miles:-) Still in the corner of my garage, I dont' really want to sell it..snif sniff

As JTR says you can't beat the value of a complete powertrain from a used car. Beauty is you can drive it and verify it's alright as well as do compression checks etc. Hopping it up is easy at any later date as 4 comes in. Intakes/carbs/headers etc are available good prices used all the time. Don't get the idea that a $4700 motor is the norm for a V8Z:-) I wish it was but we all have our differing scenarios:-) Ross (hmm, how could I drive 500hp in the rain) C

Sorry to hear about that Dave. Often it's only a change of the nose piece to fit a 153 or 168 flywheel. About shimming, the box a starter comes in usually has a label/dirxn on shimming. From underneath with tranny cover off you check the gap b/t bottom of the starter teeth and flywheel with a paperclip or similar, just from memory. I've only had starter's rebuilt, never bought new so didn't get that paper slip. But when a guy on a jobsite got a new starter and had the 'shim' they include left over I grabbed it just in case it's ever needed. I'd assume your gap could only be too tight and then shimming it would lower your starter and increase/create some gap at the base of the starter teeth in the flywheel 'slots'. But do make sure the teeth are compatible if this is an issue. good luck ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

clutch type LSD"s are only in 4/87 -12/89 300ZXT's except the SE model (ivory white) which has the viscous one which does not work for an easy install, apparently they're in 3.7 and 3.9 ratio but I've only found them (some 6 now)in the 3.7 ratio FWIW. search the forum for a lot more info finned cover does not guarantee a posi

Recalled this which I hadn't thought of before....redrilling a 5 lug rotor to fit a 4 lug car. Pic at bottom of URL shows it (almost deceptive how that shot is taken...just about hiding that lug hole) http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/brakesz32.html

quote: Originally posted by Mikelly: Looking for info on hub adapters, who sells them, what they cost... I'm weighing my wheel options here and I'm really wanting a set of wheels that are wide enough for the tire I want to run and have enough backspacing! Mike No loss on your rotors Mike, you can drill 4 more holes in them and they'll work just as they did before:-) http://content.communities.msn.ca/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Community=RossCorriganspicspicsandmorepics&ID_Topic=3 is some pics I put up a while ago, no time to organize but some of my 5 lug stuff is on their, what's missing is my front hubs and slip on spacers, if you have a friendly machinist that may be your best bet. I have a .tiff file somewhere with an ACAD dwg you can use as is or alter around somewhere. If doing calc's, ARP studs are not 3" threaded length and allow ~1.5" spacer max if a rotor is included on that stud just FWIW. I actually feel safer with proper slipons as it's easy to torque the outer nuts and know it's all dead tight. With bolt ons you truly don't have a way of verifying the inner nuts are tight w/o wheel removal, just my .02c and slip ons allow more variation in wheel spacing (tire width variation for same size is surprisingly large too) good luck

Enjoy Mike K:-) I'm happy you got that price and it appeared clear as you explained that others could have the same shot at that pricing if they planned to a do a lot of business with PC as well. Reading about others finds/opportunities is a lot of fun for me whether new or used so please don't hold back on this, I feel it's welcome info.

Sounds like you got a great attitude Jeff:-) Some reading I highly recc'd (money v. well spent IMNSHO) John Lingenfelter on modifying sbc engines, he discusses quite well how the different parts/designs relate and includes dyno sheets of his proven combos with listing's of all parts in those combos. as well Vizards: how to rebuild your small block chevy, and any of his other books I rec'd JL's book 1st if you can find it (if you were here I'd have an armful for you to borrow:-) and, order as many free catalogs as you can as they offer a lot of good info on combo's edelbrock/comp cams etc etc, comp cam's catalog is a wealth of info, you also get good ideas from some info in summit on characteristics as well I'm not sure but a 700R4 may swap in place of TH350 IF the shorter TH350 tailhousing is used on the 700...ask your shops, I'm not sure anyone here as done that so we'd appreciate hearing back on it:-) ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Head & others: not sure what q's are still outstanding on this thread. Guess I've missed the development of this one. John, great to hear you've got some time and space to tinker with your Z:-) Even if you paid full for your labour 6 yrs ago it's been worth it for you having had your V8zx to drive the whole time:-) You know I've changed my setups a few times and it costs money but hey it's a hobby and still great bang/buck IMO:-) About headers....my car is a 79/80 with manual R&P, this can be swapped into any 280ZX taking the crossmember with it (xmember is exclusive to this rack, others measure VERY similar (w/in 1/4"!!) on rack mounts but not the same (ask me how I found out:confused . I bought cheap hedman headers (didn't know any better) with a thin flange. They'd have been fine if they had a thicker flange but they were still only 1.5" tubes which is small for anything but quite a mild V8 IMO. I also custom bent my drivers side header 'out' (away from block) ~2 " or so to clear the steering rod. I've had two exhaust systems now and will get a 3rd (3rd time lucky) this spring or earlier if time permits. A lot of dyno's and respected opinions have now convinced me I'll lose v. little to no power where I need by staying with shorty headers. I'll get 1-3/4's (from www.rewarderheader.com or similar) most likely, they'll customize them somewhat at no extra cost and at ~$300US coated that's v. fair IMO. You'll hear many opinions on what size headers/configuration are good for what combo which I won't get into. BUT just cause someone is pushing 400rwhp thru 1-5/8's headers doesn't mean it's optimal/appropriate, they may put 440rwhp thru 1-3/4's and gain power right across the board and gain 500rpm or more in power range for ie. On steering rack's, if for some reason you HAVE to have a power rack I'm sure ways around the headers can be figured out. But I don't find the steering effort excessive, aluminum heads and relocating the battery made a big difference to the effort. Less now than stock I"m sure (weighs less/better balance better be true!). Drive some manual cars first to see if you can enjoy that if thinking of changing. It's strictly a preference IMO and not a strength issue at all (can't be, I was barely walking/standing up after a bone marrow transplant and wheeling the monster around for a daily 'stomp'!). many autox champs out their in manual cars (I hear that occasionally, "But I'm going to be autox champ so I need power steering"), so I dont' buy into that, preference again IMO. Keep in mind I don't have ANY options on my car except power windows I added and rear wiper (must've been custom order or something?), so no AC/cruise accessories up front etc. I have some header pics from either side aiming down b/t fender and header if of interest. I'd be game for arranging a group 'header' buy or participating at least. Any q's feel free, it's been a daily driver for some 5yrs or so now and sees autox & roadrace duty so nothing much it hasn't been exposed to. HTH ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Some v. quick comments as I'm off to bed.. No matter what carb you pick make sure the floats etc/fuel bowls will work well with your intended use...(ie. in general side hung for straight line and fore/aft for lateral). I prefer edelbrock for same reasons your mech does. Additional comments on your listed combo; all just as my opinion (if you weren't looking for them, I apologize, but we're generally pretty straight up around here so figured you (or others lurking) might welcome the feedback: -why increase your intake greater than your exhaust duration? If anything I'd think you'd want to help out the 1-5/8's headers (borderline OK for that power). Are you thinking intake will be restricted (milling V.Jr.). Lower your motor to gain that intake clearance/space Xmember below frame and if necessary/notch oilpan. For that intake you WANT the height and a carb spacer if you can fit it. As well if you are buying a pan get a v. good one (Canton) as most others don't give you the xtra torque a good pan should with oil control if you're bucking up. -268H is an old cam design, they've improved a lot, the XE256H-10 or XE262-10 have quicker ramps and a dual pattern (you can adjust as you know w/ your rockers) -how much will those heads set you back? as well the flow you quoted isn't relevant to what lift this cam will operate in....(you'll hit .484 with the 268H and 1.6 rocker you propose), you need max flow in the .3-.5 range, those ports you mentioned would IMO make it fall on its face with your 'mid' lift cam (aluminum heads will REALLY help your weight distribution, and give you a free .5 point on compression with pump gas). I ran cheap iron first till my pennies grew, then aluminum and balance/steering were greatly improved (and moved battery at same time:-) -268H in my catalog is a 110 LCA, you getting a custom grind to 108? that's narrow IMO for a street cam of the range you're looking at. Your torque curve (does your book have the dyno curve) sure won't be the flattest. -were those iron heads? do you want to run pump gas at 10:1? with sbc's power is so cheap it pays off quick IMO at your power levels to build for pump gas all just curiousities and not meant to offend, just seems the parts might have some room for 'optimizing' your bang/buck PS if you can alter the budget to include roller lifters and a cam (cam's can be had in your range/used/great shape/cheap) we can build you same or MORE power with far better manners:-) FWIW, I've got a 280ZX roller 350sbc w/ a ~.519/.522 lift cam and it's an easy 400hp flywheel (seen 420 dynosheets for same) setup with easy manners d/2 it's roller design with a FLAT torque curve their all over. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by ellobo97: I one do like to bang gears. And second, it has just been nothing but problems. I can't ever get the lines to seal up good, the pan gives me problems, and the shifter I had to put in works well, but now to what I want. Plus, after driving my brothers 5speed, I want to have that thrill. Do you have a carb, or tpi in yours? I have also noticed that I don't have a lot of power in mine, and I really don't know why. Did you put a lock up torque converter in yours? I have one in mine, but I don't know how to wire it up. Obviously whatever you prefer is your option, I'm just looking of nuances so far. 1) shifting, with a nicely built 700R4 you can shift WAY faster than any stick and enjoy it tooo:-) I did this with my adapted OE shifter and my current Hammer shifter (got the hammer for roadracing security/one shift per HAMMER ) 2) Your lines must not be properly flared or routed (or rubbing somewhere), OR your tranny is overfilled, then it will try desperately to sweat this fluid out somewhere...(had that) Your pan may be bent, I've done my filter a couple times now and had no troubles with sealing the pan (just R&R the Y pipe is a bit of work on mine) 3) not sure how your 'trans' can be down on power if it's functioning fine, is your TV cable setup right? If you're rolling v. slowly away from a light and it goes to 2nd and you STOMP it will it kick down? (this test ensures you have minimum TV pressure), what carb/EFI are you running? MANY carbs don't offer the correct swing arc geometry for the TV cable (edelbrock's for ie.). Drove mine for 4 yrs till someone finally figured that out....(3 rebuild in 2 mos at one point/ ) If your shifts are firm at all trans shouldn't be a significant source of power loss at all. If it's freewheeling at all it's hooped and it's time for servicing fast..(made it home from Seattle once like that....2 hr drive) 4) I don't disagree with John that a TV cable is not for major adjustment (in another post) but it does offer SOME adjustment. If you hav e minimum TV already and WOT shifts are at 5500, you can tighten it a notch and bump your WOT shift point IF the travel is left in the cable etc. And similarly slacken it a notch if WOT too high as long as minimum TV is always maintained as described above. I have the cable geometry swing arm specs somewhere... Their's also kits for controlling your lockup related to rpm's with a thumbwheel that you can control. I have B&M's but haven't had time to resolve hooking up their speedo cable at a tight bend in my setup (no 90's in stock locally) FWIW, I wish 1st wasn't so steep....only good for full gear smokies once I got tuned up. Give a great 'silent' holeshot though, usually I sidestep into 2nd right away for a nice LONG gear once someone indicates they mean business ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

beware for comparisons that you can swap shorter tailhousings on a 700R4 trans from TH350's etc(like I did as shop didn't have a speedo combo close to what I needed in the OE 700R4 tail, 350 tail supports more speedo gear combo's) so not sure if that could make it same (adds a possibility anyhow)

quote: Originally posted by Speaker: is it cheaper and/or more worth my while to either purchase a motor already built and tested from someone like badasscars.com? or purchase a block and build the engine myself? I've put together the topends on my last two motors and found that quite straightforward/satisfying. Shortblocks can be had for v. fair price whether new or from a trusted source. Do you plan on all the other mods to plant 450rwhp as well? Reason I ask is you can IMO build a motor easily to do up to 325 rwhp with a 350 sbc rollerized. Stepping to that next power level IMO is a very different motor in terms of attitude but can be built later on your original foundation. Either way I've quite enjoyed assembling my topends (heads/valve springs, rockers/geometry/intakes/cam swaps etc) and it takes a minimum of tools as well. So if you have the interest go for it. Nice thing with sbc's is you can often get practically new parts from drag racers perfect for your own use at 1/2 price or less occasionally. This really cuts down overall cost. Got my 350 shortblock w/ new roller lifters for ~$400US with <16k km's on it in wicked shape. Then set of new roller mixed top notch rockers $150 (260+new, gold race and chromoly). ZZ4 cam new $50 ($250 new). Intake $100 ($150+new). etc etc, even used roller cams are often in as new shape which an inspection will show. Just some ideers.. Ross (more bargains allows more building!) C ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

You can certainly find a 'deal' thru paper classifieds/forums/ebay etc in 17" wheels in that width and can often get a fine set of rubber at the same time (I've narrowly missed advans/SO2's etc for a steal). Theirs numerous lighter Japanese import/tuner setups (volk etc) that cross ebay from time to time at 50-70% of new in great shape. For a cheap 'spare' set you may want the cobra R wheels in 17x9 or 9.5? OEM and lots of knock off's in those, as well the 5x4.5 bolt pattern is v. common in the aftermarket stuff. I suspect you want forged wheels or at least something v. strong (lots of cheap/crap easily bent rims out their these days FS new) for your higher speed plans etc. I"d also be open to various offsets and quite possibly have different spacers for different wheels...cost of good slip on spacers can be very fair in the overall scheme. Then simple machined shims can go behind them to alter offset for a set requiring this. Seems to work on Porsches OK:-)

on the simplest end, you can install a timing control at your fingertips to retard it d/2 bad gas/higher boost etc.....wasn't sure from your post how much more control you wanted...

lots of links off the 'links' button off mainpage here ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.