Modern Motorsports Ltd

others have used your same OEM roller setup on old non-roller blocks, takes a bit of work but nothing v. difficult. Seen as you have your rollers etc already it could certainly be worthwhile. Roller or non roller, either will run and can give you same power but NOT with the same manners or overall dyno curve. Roller is a fatter and flatter curve as a result of their faster ramps. I wouldn't rec'd solid lifters unless you have to go past the rpm's of hydraulic setup. Just extra maintenance and noise with no gain UNLESS you must have that extra power (like in excess of 450hp for ie. on a 350sbc). I only know one racer of many running solid's among roller setups FWIW.

quote: Originally posted by Mikelly: Evan, Per Jags That Run you take the bolt hole on the front crossmember where the control arm bolts in and you move it 7/8th inch straight up. This allows better geometry for the front control arms and cures some of the bumpsteer issues! Now is it the same effect to put a 7/8's spacer under your strut b/t control arm end instead? (assuming your wheels clear etc..). This should achieve same geometry change. Are your front coilovers installed Mike with top hats? Just wondering if your struts/control arms are in their final position/configuration yet to see how it all settled out to do your final bumpsteer mods etc?

Pete, before you order drop me a line. I paid ~$220US for my 15-244T (Lt1 by memory) Canton(wholesale) and will see if I can recontact the bud that got me that pricing before for you. Their is a HUGE range in their pricing structure as you and others have found out. Ross (won't pay above wholesale for anything but groceries) C

quote: Originally posted by scca: ok.... i've been upgrading my computer for the last 3 days.. Finally up and running AMD-Thunderbird-900 with 256ram, (rams so cheap now 256 was only $100!)i should get more-- once i transfer all the email files onto this HDD i'll get to mailing. Mike Hey Mike, I told you I get that stuff at wholesale........Ram should've been $81-86US depending on source for 256Mb yesterday. CPU less than $220CD/$150US Anyone in W. Canada here needing systems etc, I can get some sweet pricing on parts to complete systems/notebooks etc.

anyone know what the OE Cobra R's weigh in at? (and their width to go with that?) thanks Ross (leary of heavy and weak wheels) C

The word I'd forgot was that GMPP was for their Z28. If bucking up for new stuff be sure to get something KNOWN for great oil cleanup off the crank with a scraper or a closer fit mesh tray besides the usual sump/baffles etc. It's a lot more than just keeping some oil at the pickup to satisfy a psi guage, if paying $ you deserve to minimize your oil on the crank which is where the 'free' torque comes in to greatly improve efficiency. The 'strands' of oil really add up and the more you can intercept the better Pete, if you get a chance to check out a Canton do so. I know you'd enjoy just checking it out:-) I have a chunk of pics I should post up from when I had mine. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Jeff 280ZXT: just trying to get more people to look anymore reviews? Reviews/comments on what? The TH350 is fine and reliable and can often be had for next to nothing if you're patient. As you know you'll run higher rpm's. What do you want to know about topend? For rpm's just do the math for your intended setup. If you don't have your own spreadsheet this one works fine http://www.off-road.com/tools/gearcalc.html there's many others but they all do the same thing (Drax had a rather all inclusive one..) Downside of higher rpm's are increased wear/decreased life from any and all components but what come to mind mostly for me are the valvesprings if you have a more lively setup, just something to be aware of. One friend's ran more sbc's and bbc's than I've driven cars total and has no problem cruising at 3000 or 4000rpm, just his perogative. They were normally coupled with 'lower' diff ratios (2.53/2.79 for eg.)so ran lower rpm's in their OE design. If you do go with one choose your tailshaft so if you change to a t5 or 700R4 you can use the same driveshaft ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by pparaska: I bought a Edelbrock 2 piece cover that is a better design and looks like it should not leak. Does anyone have experience getting a 7.5" tall SBC wet sump system to work well in the corners? I have an old 7.5" tall 327 pan on the engine now, and any more depth is the wrong way to go as the pan is a bit too low as it is! Pete, noone on the fbody lists has had success with any true two piece timing covers other than the pricey comp cams thick aluminum one FWIW. For pans I used the '68 GMPP (for their zapper perhaps)sbc pan and windage tray on my 327. It wasn't cheap but worked v. well back then and still does now. If you don't already have money into the tray/pan I'd go full bore on a Canton pan. I don't have their contact info but they are THE source for roadracing pans. Moroso/Hamburger do not measure up the same. This local builder who does a lot of $$$$$ US destined motors for drag cars/drag boats/roadrace cars has dynoed them all at one time or another and he said 25ftlbs was an easy gain on my setup with a Canton pan. But the Canton for my setup offered me less Xmember clearance (mine's 280zx remember) so a 4th gen buddy bought it (new style one piece oil seal/block on mine as well, no longer my 327). So I'd go with GMPP pan/tray for ~$185 discounted if money's tight or if it can in way be afforded a Canton pan for a few bucks more. They do an awesome job of oil control and be sure to get the matching pickup from them. Your buddies pickup might be too high (common error) or poor to no windage tray or low oil as well. I've NEVER had an oil psi drop on any maneuver with any of my treads. Current setup is 'hacked' OE windage tray to fit my 'hacked' oil pan and worked fine at events last summer.

quote: Originally posted by pparaska: Yes it's with a dizzy, but I don't mind that. And TimZ is right - I want datalogging and easy control that the SDS doesn't provide. Unfortunately, the Pro-Flo makes a compromise I'd not be satisfied with either - no PC control and needing custom chips. Just a few add on comments Pete: -I'm with you, I'd actually prefer my HEI dizzy any day over any balancer adjustments (magnets etc) and wiring up front where I have a VERY clean area and do not want ANY wiring down their either. If I change balancer/pulley setups I want it to stay simple/easy. HEI dizzy's I'm very familiar with and don't mind using it with an internal sensor etc (I don't need higher accuracy) SDS seems to provide easy control has been the general consensus is it not? Edelbrock's proflo 'custom' chip is not so custom always. They offer a range of chips and their SOLE purpose to the diehard tuners is to get you going. If you want to stick with your chip's setup that's fine but they're generally a get you up and started in your general range purpose. I'm not ordering one, found one I can swap for the one mine came with that's meant for my ZZ4 cam EXACTLY:-) I'll still tickle it a fair bit as I'm running some mods to charm 50+ more easy hp out of the profile. No matter what system you go with you need some kind of baseline to get going, I like knowing I can order/find/swap for a chip that'll get me pretty close in my ballpark. Knowing the performance I got/get from my V8 with a controlled fuel leak I know I doubt I'll ever feel the need for datalogging as the gains I'll experience should be adequate for myself:-) Their were some comments on this thread or another about 'closed loop' being v. good. I'm not in such agreement. Closed loop (correct me if this has changed) is based on your ECU trying to maintain A/F at 14.7 stoich right? Lately their's quite a bit of evidence that at cruise engines (varies among builds) can tolerate up to 17.0 A/F which leads to FAR greater mpg/efficiency, so unless you can alter the closed loop 'target' ratio I wouldn't get to excited about it. I'd instead be progressively altering my cruise/higher vacc A/F while monitoring my O2 sensor and related temps/knock etc. just my .02c and as always open to feedback ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Roamer: Hey guys this has been fantastic. I think I am going with the Ford 302 option. Marc Marc, great stuff:-) You sparked a v. good thread and now we're all eagerly awaiting updates/pics and eventually driver feedback on your new creation:-) You'll definitely like that one and given your 'modest' power goals the weight savings of the 302 and some other advantages will be enjoyed nicely! keep us updated

quote: Originally posted by Kevin Shasteen: I have been thoroughly researching how I would set my eng/trns 280Z when I'm ready for the swap & will definately go w/6spd. 2) Because of the xtra power-what are your shift points I appreciate anyone's response & welcome any insight. I"ll touch on your Q2 and insight question. What are your goals for us to offer insight? Xtra power won't typically affect shiftpoints unless your just spinning and trying to find lesser power to gain traction. My shiftpoints will always be peakhprpm as long as it doesn't drop me below my peaktqrpm, if it does then I'll shift a little higher so's not to drop too far assuming my build handles the extra rpm fine. Do you have any dyno or shifting software? Can't recall any URL's as I"ve had mine now for a while but they'll quickly give you a good dyno curve approximation and a great feel for how various factors affect the curve. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by pparaska: I'm REAL IGNORANT of any injection stuff, bear with me, please. Pete, you have seen all the EFI threads we've generated and a lot within last few months. I'll put my quick spin on your questions that I saw as follows: 4Di worthwhile at new cost? 4Di TBI worthwhile in comparison to multiport? value of SDS or others not too much more $? I had a (700 or 900, don't recall, it's the injectors that count BTW!) 4Di I got in great/as new shape for $350US with both the pot controller old ECM and new ECM/laplink setup (yes good deal, I'm patient). Never installed it and sold it to a friend as I learned I wanted MPEFI and didn't want to bother setting one system up (and buy a laptop) to later do the MPEFI setup. Pete knows my expenditures usually so that might help. Power is made not by any max cylinder but by all cylinders being as EQUAL in power as possible. This creates a gorgeous balance of smoothness that just lends to more power. MPEFI can give every cylinder the EXACT same shot of fuel to help create all bangs as equal as possible (just suck bang blow here). I did a lot of background on 4di (have some archived at home) and the analog version is not worth it for custom motors as it's tuneability is v. poor with only the pots. Digital is great for tuning with newer software versions of recent that you can view it on 3D graphs and 'grab' a point on a graph and 'pull' that surrounding region as your adjustment etc. With advent of ProFlo I no longer see the same value in the 4Di. I was stuck at doing a custom EFI setup but that throttle body issue is ridiculous at what they're sold for. $4-$500 for a throttle body? Get real, carbs with same design and a lot more involved sell for far less. I"m sure price will drop as more units come out etc but till then......no laptop with Proflo, you get MPEFI using cheap (but reliable) OE sensors (ford and gm FWIW) and injectors on a v. proven manifold (factor in manifold cost as it's not in 4di and you can sell yours). You gain much better fuel control and now have a dry manifold so can port/polish to your hearts content if you like to improve efficiency and power (many don't know these go hand in hand, most here do). As well being 'dry' you can use a short runner single plane intake like a Vic. Jr as proflo does as you're NOT losing bottom end so will now support your bottom fine but will NOT impeded your topend. (fact that edelbrock uses their advertised '3-8000rpm' intake for their 'standard' sbc package now convince anyone it's actually fine at <3k;^), it's always worked fine down their....) I"M quite certain 4Di has no fuel cutoff as proflo does (proflo has a soft touch rev limiter and fuel cutoff on decel that work nicely for improved mileage, with all my accelerating I do a lot of decelerating so that alone will really benefit me). Their timing control is similar to 4Di but SDS needs that crank trigger. HEI mods for proflo or 4Di are easy/cheap not an additional cost/concern. SDS is 'just' a brain and harness, for a V8 the 'others' add up to at least cost of proflo for a 400hp sbc (injectors/tb are big costs as can be a good plumbed intake). The ease with which non sbc guys can use other throttle bodies makes the SDS great for them. So 4Di is ~$1225US AIR? $150 for any decent laptop (may as well get something you can use when travelling if need be), $200 for a good intake and you're up to $1575. The $1925 'new' sticker for proflo IMO more than justifies your 'big' jump to MPFI with the efi Vic. Jr., injectors/rails/tb/fuel pump/3/8's alum. line etc. Find it used and the value goes up:-) I ran thru this as I know you (Pete) like to arrive at a 'final' vision of what you want and given your in depth preview/analysis/alteration of your car as is I doubt the 4Di would satisfy your nature.

quote: Originally posted by ellobo97: I don't have more pieces then I started with, I just don't know how the heater works, so I don't know if I need to put this t piece back into the loop or not. Didn't see that Tpiece on my 79/80 280ZX. Just hooked up my hoses to the two coming out my firewall. Mine's a barebones 280ZX though with none of that digital or climate control excess. Have you got climate control? I assume if you found an electronically controled valve (or is it a temp switch? doubt that) it's part of the climate control. Got your FSM? it should tell you... What diam. tube headers did you install? I don't think I caught your motor/build specs? Just be careful as shops often get exuberant at exhaust mods and selling you that their 'tweaks' won't affect your overall flow etc....I've been hosed a few times with stuff like that....never again. You might want to install some Stage 8 locking header bolts while/if they're still well sealed to keep them that way. Not something I enjoy changing to much. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Morgan: mike: I just got a pile of lsd parts, which should include a finned cover. If so, it will probably be an extra. You can buy the tapped nismo cover you know.... or tap a smooth cover for a cooler.... Both will get you more oil capacity and lower temps. Anything wrong with using the two tapped/plug holes on the finned cover for a cooler? Return line thru the upper hole and supply out the bottom? Any tendency from diff fluid to 'foam'? If it's like engine oil it should be fine.......or? They don't interfere with the diff mount, not sure what best connxn would be on the upper line to allow one to check the diff fluid level though.....

Glad that got cleared up, I think it was the 'limited' slip word in the subject that helped with the misconception as their's nothing limited about it, on or off with an improved transition. Nothing for healthy cornering. I've got some dyno LT1 figures from my friends but yet to put gather them up to post... ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by pauli: the way i've understood the no-slip unit is that it's just like other lockers, except that it is completely smooth. Exactly, not worth 10 seconds of thought unless you're a straight line only guy. I would NOT want that in any of my cars I did higher speed driving in, track or even just touring trips. Applause that they made a smooth locker as that is valuable to straightliners and may be desirable to some here. But to none that I know inquiring above with twisty interests. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Tom Scala: You probably need to adjust the pump shot on you RPM carb. This is easily done on that model by putting the pump linkage in the hole closest to the pivot. This will give a larger shot. Yes that's one possibility. If you change it the first spot and that makes no or little difference go back the prior location and then alter your the springs on your metering rods. Do you have the tuning kit? I'd guess you do....if not a good investment. Jump to the softest or stiffest (don't recall/tuning book has it as does website) spring. If that fixes it then back up one increment(spring set) at a time until it starts getting worse, go back to your last pair and that's optimum for your setup. Your timing can also play a v. vital/big part in that. Try a few more degrees initial if it doesn't knock your total up too high and you may be very pleasantly surprised:-)

Well with spacers either longer studs for slip ons or normal studs for bolt ons. For longer studs Mike's laid it out, the 240sx and for true longer studs ARP's quality and value can't be beat IMO. My 3" ARP's were ~$2.50US each at the time. Depending on the studs you get you may need new lug nuts as well(those 12x1.5 Mazda ones mentioned would...OE Z's are 1.25 AIR). ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Roamer: -forgot to mention, tranny tunnel mods are minor and no more than an afternoon's work at most (some it was only 10minutes with a hammer), not aftereffects either -found the URL for Ron Tyler's car (my dad now has his powertrain), good pics and some verbage to go with it, feel free to email Ron with any q's, he took an autox title the year he ran it and just took one this year with a different car I believe http://www.datsuns.com/cars/rontyler.htm HTH ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Been a busy thread since I last got in here! I'd heard my ears ringing;^) Nothing wrong with building up an 'older' style sbc. I'd only do it if nothing current suited my needs though. Many on this list have built high $ motors for 425+ hp. Roamer, you didn't say you're looking for that and if you were you'd have to fully reengineer the WHOLE car to roadrace with that anyhow so we're at your ~300hp figure. -sbc built is not VERY heavy as you say, and yes it may be slightly more than others but it's power comes so EASY and CHEAP (2 of my fav. words, right next to bang/buck;^), it's weight is in a nice/low location as well to help your polar moment of inertia (do a search of site if a new term) which is v. beneficial in any autox/roadracing -I can't tell you what you want but IMO you won't need under any event to hold a sbc at 7k to roadrace it, with flat power/torque from 3k-6.5k (and broader depending on your build) their's just no need to run higher with a decent trans/gear spacing, if 7k makes the difference I"m sure a rev kit can be installed to gain that bit, it's a lot cheaper/easier/more suitable overall IMO to build the trans/diff/tire to meet your gearing needs than build a powerslide type 4k-10k rpm motor (those 2 spd setups..) -given the ease of getting 3-400hp (400hp comes easily with simple mods) from an Lt1 and their relative availability with T56's which do offer a nice gear spacing that'd be a natural for me if I were starting from scratch and going with a standard as you are (I'm sure you can get an Lt1/T56 for 4k) -or if you can come across any roller sbc block's (what's your budget/intents? $4k was it? for motor or fully motor/trans) and you want to add some bolt ons to a low mileage shortblock (what I did, easy 400+hp, 50/50 weight..) -I wouldn't discount a sbc for what you've calculated as a weight gain (so many weight figures that go around), those few pounds you're talking are covered easily with small power increases (~5lbs for 50lbs). The EASY power and cheap/very available parts (whether any piston/intakes/wicked roadracing oilpans etc) more than make up for that IF indeed their is a weight gain (I'd argue that, as my steering effort/etc/weights are less than my car was OE) I don't recall where you were (eastcoast?), I have a '68 327 shortblock that should be put back to use, and a PJ gear drive, and other stuff;^) ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Well if your wheel isn't seated properly and you can't bolt it down tight and have 80-100 thou clearance from your wheel to rotor/caliper then it's no good. Not sure what your 'spigot' is. Are you using steel wheels? Is the swap usually used on certain mags?? Just FWIW, the 6 spoke ZX wheels are only about 13lbs each which is sweet for OE wheels of that time. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

Mike, 1/3" from spring perch to .......? tire or rim? (JTR manual not handy to see those pics...) But it looks good: -old setup was ~9" overall rims, 4.5" backspacing with 1/3" clearance (to tire or rim) -new setup is 10.5" rims so ~11.5" overall and 5" bspacing so net .5" moved outward (gained .5" clearance from rim edge to strut/whatever) -new tires 1.5" wider overall so .75" per side minus .5" clearance gained from rim change says you moved your inner tire edge inward .25", assuming your prior clearance of 1/3" was was tire to strut you now have 1/3"-1/4"=1/12" clearance TO OE STRUT -you say ~4" diam OEM (51mm radius), struts are ~42mm? so 21mm diam, then ~1/2" (maybe more?) for threaded tube/lower perch of GC is 13mm +21mm=>23mm so 51mm-23mm= 1.1" gained clearance + your 1/12 should leave you with ~1-3/16" clearance using your 'approximate' numbers...sounds v. kewl:-) I walked thru the numbers as I get enough personal q's on this and lately I've sent a lot searching the hybridz site here and they're v. happy with the great data everyone is leaving:-) Keep it up folks ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

quote: Originally posted by Mikelly: Ross, What was the backspacing on your wheels? I'm running flares and plan to run no more than 5 inches of backspacing, so I should clear the perches with the 2.5 inch coil over setup. You cannot do this with a stock fendered Z, which is probably what you are thinking. Mike I wasn't thinking of fenders at all (never have really, just make sure I'm not slicing tires on 'em after;^) but simply strut/offset wheel/tire clearance. My struts are 280ZX so different from yours (no idea how much different, but worth going thru this excercise for our confirmation and others interest) What do the numbers from your present combo to proposed generate for clearance at the strut? This will tell you right off if it's close or not. I usually work in offsets as I'm dealing in various hubs/rotors/overall scenario but see if I follow this thru right: 16x8 +50mm wheels WITH 1.25" spacers, so ~9" wide and 4-3/4" net backspacing correct? (9" wide, 4.5" with 0 offset, and net +.25" so 4.75" backspacing) I have 1/8" MAX clearance 245/45/16 treads to my lower threaded collar/welded washer support (ground washer flush/parallel with tire to only a 1/8" width near tireas threaded collar is so thin this is plenty of seat for it). This is at the top of my tire which does not flex much if any being at the top, on markes on treads after roadracing Thill and SIR etc. I only have 1/4" more I can space out on my ARP 3" (they're not 3" of thread at all BTW, misnomer).

quote: Originally posted by Roamer: SBC preachers, I was only considering an engine with aluminum heads and intake manifold, plus the other lightweight accessories to keep overall weight to near stock levels. Any ideas on getting LS1's for reasonable dollars? As for trannies, I don't want to go 4 or 6 speed for various reasons, any 5-speeds out there that could possibly bolt to an LS1 or a built iron-block 327/350 and take 350+ ft.lbs of torque in racing conditions? Ls1's aren't cheap and neither is mating a trans to it (and an Ls1/T56 OEM combo [Ls1 T56 is diff. from Lt1 T56 trans). An OE Lt1/T56 setup would do you very well. I know it's a 6 spd but stand. trans that take the torque are pricey and those take it as is and are a nice trans. The Lt1 can get you your 250rwhp sleeping; with v. easy/cheap mods you'll get a fair shake more keeping the same cam. A bit of wiring to sort out but once done you have a v. reliable/smooth and efficient motor (no large fuel cell needed for enduros;^). Someone on page one (V8Zed?) mentioned his trickflow sbc twisting 7000 no problem. Sure it'll twist 7000 no sweat but what does the dyno curve show? Peak HP will be below that w/ hydraulic lifters to no gain running their with lifters floating a bit, that can get to pushrods acting like air chisels (don't ask....8k wasn't good for only my pushrods and one rocker, gotta love a chevy:-)) 6600-7000 is top bag for any hydraulic lifters and normally a rev kit and particular non-soft lifters are needed to get that. 6500/6600 is more norm for that. I'd also reccomend driving any similar sbc/light car setup you can come across...it's already tons of torque to be shifting at lower rpm's (5-6.5k) let alone up their in 7's:-)) If you must have those rev's I know it can be done but valvetrain costs go up a fair bit as springs/lifters etc see a lot more abuse, I don't recall the exponential relationship to rpm for wear but it's significant.

someone missed their cheerios again Morgan, too bad you deleted your 'meaningful' piece for that what you decided to share with us. IMO nothing Roamer said deserved your public prod and I appreciate others keeping it civil. It's more fun discussing thoughts than tossing **** IMO. Great to have you here Roamer If hp were just rpm we'd all be running very different setups. If you're into rev's and not too gungho on turbo's I'd sure look at a 302 Ford (small/light/fine power/easy to stick in, just parts cost a little more up front), 327 or 302 Chevy (you can buy cranks to build any of these if you can't find them used, I have a '68 327 in my garage available that I twisted relentlessly and it's seen 7-8k (not on purpose) a few times and still looks great). Above can twist 8k if needed but 6.5-7 yields a much friendlier street motor. Roller cam's just ice that cake:-) Northstar's can be done rwd but not worth the effort for gains/cost IMHO. At first you scared me with your engine braking comment (it's been instilled in me by instructors brakes are cheap and engines are expensive/use your brakes to brake not engine!) but then you quantified your use for those less experienced in your planned track use. I strongly feel you won't loose any engine braking with a 7k rpm V8 vs. a 9k Vtec etc. (my V8 has more braking at 4k or 5k than most....I love using it in corner's at lower speed). I'm not sure what gears/powerband you're looking for but it's hard to beat (or convince us to build differently might be more correct) a nice and simple 'lower' v8 power band of 3k-6.5k or 4k-7k depending on your build. I feel my V8 leaves a lot less stress on me to be able to handle roadracing transitions as I can still drop an Lt1fbody like a stone on corner exit if I get stuck at 2500rpm on exit..... I don't care if I"m playing 3k-6.5k or 5k-8k but as it's my daily driver/streeter etc no point wasting 5k rpm the other 98% of the miles I put on my ride. PS Torque is the silent winner:-)