josh817

I don't think its that bad. Could be very wrong. I know nothing about trucks.

Yah that looks like what I was seeing. You mount it inside the cab. On the website it was saying they had two different kind. The type that ramps up at whatever rate you want and the type that has a momentum sensor which applies the brakes more evenly relative to your stopping. From all the install videos I see you basically just wire it up (4 wires) and a 10 gauge wire goes to the trailer to the drums. I assume that's all you need, the drums and the controlled but it sounds too easy. The type I'm use to is the pressure sensor in the trailer hitch/neck. Only problem with that is when you reverse you'd need a lockout. The website I was using is etrailer.com http://www.etrailer.com/tv-demo_trailer_brakes_and_wiring.aspx

Alright guys seriously. I've been looking and I can find Chevy S10's all day long CHEAP. Trying to avoid the V6 but the 4 cylinder looks good with "28MPG". Not too worried if its sluggish, no mountains over here. I just need to be able to stop. Looking at trailers and I see electric brake drums are $50 each and the controller is around $100. I can put brakes on a trailer for $300? Sounds like a breeze. I'm still reading up on how it works though. With this electric setup it looks like you just wire the controller up to the brake pedal light switch or something and then it relays it out to the drums. Drums have a magnet in it, still can't figure that out, and somehow it applies enough pressure to stop. Whatever the case may be, should I have brakes on both axles or is that overkill?

That's not what I was complaining about, I wasn't really complaining about anything. I was making a comment towards Tony to have some tolerance. We are far past the carb thing and into another realm. Fuel injection and head preparation is what we are at now. You are right it will cost time and money if I kill a head, however head work would yield important power, not minimal. I'm sure you can understand that I want to get it right. I can't assume my head performs as well as Z-Ya's GTU head. It probably doesn't. I don't know who did the head work. I know when I bought the head I also bought a Don Potter camshaft, maybe its his work which means its good, but I don't know if it is his or not so...? The head could be nothing and in that case I'll dig into it, the head could be special and in that case I want to preserve it. Can you see the conundrum now? In fact, lets just not worry about it. I'll take my questions elsewhere.

You told me that, what, 3 days ago at most? Sounds reasonable for me to purchase and have read them by now. Have you gotten the Kas Kastner books I referred you to? Do you have any knowledge from your books that pertain to this thread that you would like to add? Thats with absolutely no sarcasm intended, I really am interested in what they say since I don't have them.

I was thinking the same thing as you, if this head is kind of like a GTU head then it should make a good amount of power. Then I started having those ridiculous thoughts where I'm like "Hmm velocity and CFM/volume are the two important things. I have a larger displacement thus I would need more volume?" From there, the little people in my head argue back and forth until I become indecisive. I still think I may grind a little on the head. The step for the guide on the exhaust side is still there a little bit. I would like to grind this completely away. The intakes look fine to me and as Tony said, same power from 45mm ITB to a 50mm carb but with smaller ports so no need to gouge. Have to keep in mind that the gasket I use will have to have enough material to open up the holes. I think I may just have a copper one made. Last time I tried to drill/cut/press cut the intake ports out on the gasket, it turned out nasty. Also as I stated, I'm wanting to go to the bigger 46/38mm valve seats with the regular size valves. Once again, still worried it will screw up something potentially great. My head may kind of look like yours but it could/probably will flow worse. By the way my application will be an 11:1-12:1 89mm L31 which will have a rev limiter at 8000 RPM. 11 or 12:1 compression for the same reason Z-Ya said. I need to figure out my chamber volume and then decide on pistons. My chambers aren't welded up and will have a larger volume than yours for sure. Not a crack in the port wall, just like... a pube or something... how did that get there?! For anyone who was interested in the carb thing. Here is a 45mm Weber, this is at the back where the throttle plate is. The bore at the throttle plate is 45mm and the calipers show what a 50mm would be: Here are the front dimensions. The bevel is 50mm and the bore after that is 48mm. If you went to a 50mm bore, that would be 50mm at the back of the throttle plate and then the front would have to have a 55mm bevel and a 53mm bore if you were to follow the 45mm carb dimensions: The vent thing on the front opens up 3mm in, so you may break through if you went that big on this body: This post will upset Tony. I was typing while he was typing, therefore I have written things he just mentioned. Lets see how this works out. The common thing I see is that you don't like giving exact answer. I respect that, let us figure it out on our own, aim us in the right direction. However, that sort of system is inherently open to interpretation. If you don't say exactly, then some conclusions may be drawn that are incorrect. What else would be expected unless instructions were do exactly this, do exactly that. If you say "drill the oil hole out..." ok to what size? "Well figure that out..." Yes I could figure it out on my own, probably at the cost of an engine or two. Does anyone want that? You have to realize a lot of us don't fully understand the science behind port flow. I wouldn't act surprised when you read some grotesquely wrong statement/game plan. Its a learning curve, not everyone knows the things you do, not everything is as straight forward as it might seem to you. Have some tolerance. I honestly think that we get too tangled up over the semantics of things to the point where certain technical threads lose their conciseness and the poor fellows (including us) have to weed through it all for the information they're looking for. Sigh. I don't think I'm going to participate in anymore back and forth "you're wrong, no, you're wrong too" attitude.

Z-ya, I just got here at home and I measured the ports again. I was seeing 39mm intakes, 31mm x 40mm, and 36mm x 40mm on the exhaust. Head has 44mm intake valves and 35mm exhaust. I know this may piss off Tony, but I'm curious if the ports should be slightly bigger, to compensate for a larger displacement. However a part of me is saying no because that's the higher velocity Tony was talking about, the difference between my future EFI and Z-Ya's carbs. I am wanting to put in 46/38mm intake and exhaust seats and then use the regular 44/35 valves, like Monzter did. The port would have to be reworked a little bit to match the seats. Once I get the manifold I need I will need to see the difference between the runner and the port. Hopefully they aren't too far off, requiring a lot of grinding. I'll have pictures when I get back to Arlington.

There is a lot of discussion about how that's not the best for performance but it just looks cool.

Unfortunately you have surpassed the 20 year barrier. All hope is lost. These days you now have to watch out for dudes like FlatBlack hunting down your youngest:

Standard MSA/Black Dragon header it appears to be.

Tomorrow I'm going home so I can remeasure the ports and take more pictures. Do you have any videos of the V8 and the Z31/32's, Z-ya?

I have found your list of things that bug/piss you off is rather long.

Sorry Tony. My mind was running a muck. Had a hurray moment, then was like :/ wait what if its realistic, then was like wait we just discussed, then was like wait what? I will make up for it by presenting this idea to you: http://teamc.com/i-4554532-moroso-performance-63765-air-bleed-valve.html Assuming the Hilborn or Kinsler manifolds have 1/8" NPT nozzle threads, screw one of these in each and twist the knob to sync. Seems to work in my head. I looked back at Derek's manifold build thread and he uses a log he made himself but he is running MAP. I don't think I will run MAP at all, so unless I have brake booster issues where I lose a lot of brake pedal from serious cams and little vacuum, then I won't use a vacuum log. The description says its for cooling systems but I saw the same product on another website for CO2 bottles. I have an old paintball gun and I remember having air adjust things on it. I'm wondering if a paintball supply shop will have a product I could use. I'll need something that won't twist under vibration. Edit: Simple PM to Derek and I now have a very clear idea of how this will work. He directed me to Clippard.com and said he used the 1 series. Found a 1/8" thread with knob: http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MNV-1KP May choose a knobless, to utilize a flat head screw driver.

Wait a second, Tony. I think I see twin injectors on the first video too.... Seriously now, will it work the way I described?! Injector before the throttle plate only, no injectors after the throttle plate to spray when the plate is closed? Grrr

It would be really easy to mount the injectors/fuel rail outside the horns, like a staged injection system (but only 1 set of injectors) instead of having to weld bungs and ****! That's what I was initially wanting to do and was why I was asking if an injector before the throttle plate would work at idle and stuff, since the plate would be closed. Now that I think about it though I remember this video. Slide valve injection on a rotary, injector is before the slide: Almost like this, but not really because he is running injectors before and after the throttle plate. This is perfect, its going to be fun doing this! I'm all excited now, I may squeal like a girl.

Oh-oh-oh-oh can I see?!

Lol sorry about that Tony, look at the time I made that post! I'm just saying no more then 350hp because I don't have the money or the knowledge to do something like that. Remember how I was raving about the Japanese making that sort of power? I may have a nice cam, exhaust, and intake, but I don't see my headwork performing as well as theirs. I'll leave it all up in the air though. It sounds like I can get away with an injector substantially larger than necessary and it won't kill performance. This setup, since I'm going with a Hillborn or Kinsler manifold will be more like Dereks home made manifold. Point being, I wonder if I will need air bleeders to sync. the runners since its one long throttle shaft, unlike Webers where you can adjust the idle open on each body to sync. I should probably start another thread so we don't fog up Z-ya's original post. D: Sorry!

I don't want to be a jackass but the question, is twin injection needed for something like my setup, was never really answered. The conclusion was you can run decent sized injectors for my power output and still get good idle/low end control, therefore no need for staged injection (use only one set of injectors?!). From what I've read I want a low impedance injector and the charts show I needed 450cc but you said 550cc will run well. Oringed or barbed, thats easy enough to answer, just get the fuel rail to match. Then comes the difficult part. I remember on 280z's they had something with 2 screw holes in it the hold the injector into the manifold. Am I lucky enough to avoid this and have some sort of snap in bungs/injectors. I will read. I can't see anything more then 350hp at the wheels from a race 3.1L. My cam grind idea was perhaps something slightly smaller then a 306º duration, 102º lobe center, and .610" lift. I don't want something as radical as I just mentioned. I'll be giving Isky a call when I'm ready to play. Isky's Z-273 (710127) looked to be around what I want, if he can do it with the right lobe centers.

I'll just say I'm wrong and continue on. Lol This was a header system I was wanting to base mine off of. The bends don't look as complicated as others. It would be a fun project. I could see potential difficulty in the merge engle that you guys discussed.

I think I'm starting to get it. I just freaked out a little looking at the setup section of the forum. All sorts of terms I didn't know but I have a feeling its explained a zillion times somewhere on the interwebs. The air cleaner thing was easy to me for carbs cause I already had an idea! lol I'll need to get better pictures/get my hands on the manifold I want to use, and eyeball it while I ponder. I wouldn't run triple injectors because of the cost ahh! I get the idea of doubles. I read things like large injectors are hard to control at low RPM, so you run the smaller set like you said for lower RPM and switch to large ones after a certain point. For my N/A application, my largest injector would be 450-ish I think I saw, for a 3.1L 8000RPM max therefore I wouldn't need 3 injectors since the gap between my smallest to the biggest isn't that big...? I also read that they use two to switch over at higher RPM's for the atomization. I'm wondering if I can run just 1 set but mount them outside the trumpets or whatever. I don't see that working though when the butterflies are closed. This would help save money on double sets and on having to have someone weld bungs onto the runners. If the runners are Mg then I don't even know. Luckily one of the Megasquirt things has a staged injection setup if I have to go with 2 sets. Don't know if its MS1, MS2, or MS Extra.

I would refer you to Kas Kastner then. The information he writes about on Triumphs specifically notes that you want your exhaust pipe to be exactly this long with this setup. Granted my translations of the Japanese pages were... barely helpful, the subject of keeping velocity up was found multiple times. Doesn't necesarily mean keeping it up by restriction. It was just an observation, it may mean nothing. I agree with you that the header is the major part of the system, however I honestly believe the pipe matters too. Hundreds of Triumphs are out there to prove it, especially my fathers. The method is also used for gocarts. One thing I will admit is perhaps the tuned length is more-so for smaller displacements considering a Spitfire is 1.3L and a gocart motor is 100-200cc. I wish Don Potter were still around so we could give him a call and see whats up. The vintage car I posted, has Potter exhaust stuff on it. Now, Potter was not his engine builder, however he uses a guy who had close contact with Potter. Tony, did you ever try varying lengths or did the tests end in the conclusion that full length X diameter had a loss of 20hp and no pipe showed the 20hp improvement? Was there any middle ground where there was more power to be had? Once again we hit a point on Hybridz where books and calculations say one thing but tests show another. Once again I can only relate to what I've seen with my dad and those are Triumphs, perhaps Z's are completely different. I wouldn't take calculations as gospel though. The rules and patterns of the periodic table are there but there are many exceptions. The Lewis Dot Structure explains the majority of atomic/molecular structures but there are some instances where it doesn't explain. Regardless of where this discussion goes if I were serious about making all the power I could get, then I would go dyno test varying lengths even if its said it doesn't do anything. Tony, for the 2.8L with the pipe, where was peak power compared to without a pipe?

Hopefully what you are leading up to is mentioning tuned parameters/dimensions for a certain RPM you want to work in. If I say I want peak power at 5000 RPM I won't be running 1 3/4" primaries. Velocities would be too low to take advantage of. Same reasoning for carbs. I'm not going to run a 50mm with a 47mm choke if I'm not going past 6500 RPM. Velocities and volume of the intake charge with large ports and runners wouldn't work in my favor. Other ways to keep velocity up is to keep the heat in. Ceramic coat, wrapped headers, whatever. Some people ceramic coat the entire length of the exhaust so heat isn't lost. Also look into some thread I made a while ago showing some header porn from the motherland. One thing I noticed right off the bat is that a lot of them had their primaries going straight out and rounding over rather than straight down as soon as the exhaust gas exits the port. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures because my computer is dead. :[ But just imagine the gasses entering the header and hitting a wall as soon as it enters, because the primaries are directed downward. The expensive headers I saw had the gasses continue a couple inches outward and a nice big 90º bend was made. Of course, right hand drive you have more room but there is still plenty of space with LHD. Just for fun I'm going to create my own now that I'm doing some decent welds. Compare MSA to others to see what I mean. MSA where the connection between the primary and the flange, the primary basically goes straight down: The others, note its never a sharp tight radius angle, always large. From the translations they all mentioned tidbits of velocity and as you can see one mention of a cyclone effect: Helps explain the functionality of a megaphone (pulse jet motor): So I think this kind of works along with what you're saying, a little. Small enough to keep velocity up higher than needed for your performance needs, is obviously restricting. However, there is a too big, once again lowering the velocity to where it may not be good for your application. For instance on a race prepped Spitfire, the tuned length and size of a proper pipe, when standing behind it from 5 feet away I can feel it on my legs. For my Z with a 3" pipe at idle, I can't feel it more than 2 feet away. The only use of my 3" pipe would be if I started winding it up past 6000 RPM, which I don't so shame on me. My point is, and we all already know this is if you take it to the dyno with a set length, cut off 6" at a time and watch what happens to the power. When the power drops after so many 6" pieces have been cut off, return to the length 1 cut before the drop, then insert a sliding piece of pipe so you can slide it in and out in to find where within that 6" length the power is at its peak to finely tune. Once you find your peak, that is your optimum length for that setup (pipe size, primary size, header bends, cam, displacement, RPM) Change any single thing, and you will need to go back and do it all over again, if you wanted to be picky. A guy running in vintage with a 2.4L motor has his pipe coming out just behind the seat. His butt dyno claims it to be better than all the way to the back. I need to shut up and sleep. Tomorrow I will read over this and be like.... why did I say that.

I've seen the spraying down the air horn (I guess its called TBI? woops! stand off injectors) but I see in your picture there is a second rail of injectors after the throttle plates. Is that for idle? I see that sort of setup being hard to make an airbox. I'd like to filter my air. I'll do some research before I say anything. Like I said before, I know nothing about injection at all. Edit: For the past 3 hours I've been looking over EFI MS stuff. I'm sweating.

You're not going to let up until I go EFI. I'll see. I've heard of Hillborn systems converted to EFI. Must the injector bosses be welded on the flange spraying into the port or could they spray into the runner, close to the port, where the normal nozzle would be? Inform me on here or in a PM maybe?

I'm not here to bash other systems and I know you're just saying that to correct my logic of simplicity, but I just feel uncomfortable with EFI and I am becoming very fond of this MFI idea. One thing may be easy for you but hard for me to get. This MFI is clicking, webers kind of clicked, EFI is completely unknown (thus the fear of the unknown). Not worried if it sputters and **** on the street. The only reason why it would be on the street is for a test drive or driving to a club meeting or something.