Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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I knew it was a mistake to even try.
I must remember to not click "view it anyway"!
Have fun with your diagnostics. Good Luck.
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I was discounting direct injection as it's not even a passable reality for us at this point.
For atmospheric injection, I believe what I said holds true, and the additional mixing of the fuel air mass is accomplished with that, and not at the port, no?
Otherwise they would be port injecting at the back of the valve like the OEM's...yes?
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No, I'm saying the heat source is filtered keeping the heat available to radiate lower, resulting in lower temperatures. The Atmospheric guys who I talked to related the transmission of UV directly to the absence of Aerosols in the upper atmosphere. It is independent of humidity at the ground level as I understood it.
They explained the diffusion of the suns rays in the upper atmosphere by water droplets filters the UV to a great extent not experienced out West. They were the ones who drew my attention to the "deep blue sky" compared to what I was accustomed to seeing in Michigan as I grew up...more Chevy LUV "Sky Blue" than the deep DARK blue you get without the aerosols. Maybe Hawaii gets similar thermal phenomenon...
There is a thermal layer above the Tarmac. You can measure the gradients with a fast-acting thermocouple. Thermocouples placed in the shaded cowl inlet area (air inlet to cabin for the heater blower apparatus) will usually read the lowest-near Ambient, the leading edge of the hood will generally have a reading lower than one on the bumper, which is lower than one on the valence... But they all will usually be lower than cabin air inlet, or a sensor duct taped to your 6' CB Whip Antenna bolted to the back bumper.
I believe if you shot it with a thermal imaging camera you might be able to see it.
The examples I cited of Baker and Iowa were my "Eureka" moment that got me looking into "why" it existed. 85 ambient and 120 into the radiator, 100 ambient and 103 into the radiator.
There is no doubt in the desert southwest the thermal layer is far hotter than most places back East. Seeing the temperature within 10 degrees of ambient during the daytime was just not something I'd experienced until Iowa as we were driving at night, in inclement weather, etc. To that point.
When the sun came out, that's when it got interesting. I have not seen 160F thermal layering at the 24" sensor height like driving Route 66 into Holoman one year, anywhere East of the Mississippi, in fact, East of the Rocky Mountains (Only as far North as I80) I rarely saw anything over 110F on a 105 day. It was within 10-15 degrees of ambient in most cases.
In the Holoman drive, I think it was over 40 degrees warmer (it may have only been 100 or 105F Ambient, but it was 160F air in the radiator sensor!) -- that was 2% RH. The "Dry Heat" everybody talks about...not a cloud in the sky, and dark, deep blue skies.
I think on Okinawa there were similar conditions...but never checked. Just got my IR gun here in PI to do further testing, but we're coming into rainy season now so not till next May for those test results.
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The further the injector is from the port, the better it is for performance.
Head placement at the back of the valve was SOLELY for emissions concerns.
Look where F1 engines inject your fuel and tell me they're anywhere near the valve!!!
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Why not just look up Rick Patton at Patton Machine, drop in the conversion pieces where your suction piston and dome goes, hook up the GM TBI injectors and go from there? Why reinvent the wheel?
The links are on here...but googling will find it as well.
Andrew Jennings has 240Z SU's on his hot motored 510, and ran these adapters from BC Canada to Las Vegas and Back this past week. I pointed him in this same direction and he seems really happy with Ricks adapters.
I sent him 59 # of SU's to make up SU Adapters for every Datsun Ever Made...
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Obviously intent on not overthinking the problem presented (snapped leaving MSA this past April):
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Saddest of all is he didn't even read this forum's first page subject lines page before asking:
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/118330-aar-deleted-heres-how-i-controll-idle/
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"So are you saying that 85F in the desert is hotter than 85F in New Hampshire?"
In fact, if you read what I said, that is EXACTLY what I'm saying! People don't quantify things properly. On several of my cross country trips I was confounded why I experienced problems in SoCal at 75 mph on an 85 degree day, but had no problem in the Midwest doing 100+ mph for two hours on end a cross Iowa in 103F ambients.
Looking back at my copilot's logs, my son had an Omega Rotary Thermocouple Switch, and was tasked with taking readings every so often. I had thermocouples plastered all over the car running to his switch and digital display. He dutifully logged them...
As I said, the revelation of the thermal layer existing in the first 36" above the Tarmac surface of the roadway was shocking. At 8AM climbing Baker Grade with an Ambient Temperature of 85F, the radiator inlet air temperature was 130-145F. On the return leg, at 4PM on the same stretch of road at 82F, the airflow was closer to 150-155! I experienced temperatures in excess of 160F!
Across Iowa, at 2 in the afternoon, doing 100mph, with a 103F ambient, WITH THE A/C ON and the car running 175, the interior 70F, the cooling airflow was only 103F!
Extensive reading and consultation revealed the presence of aerosolised water present in the Eastern Midwest severely filters UV Radiation, resulting in less temperature rise off the pavement.
I noticed this phenomenon all throughout the Eastern Seaboard, and a cross the Great Plains, and to some extent in parts of Texas. Those temps on the roadway started soaring when the sky turned deep, deep blue and not that pale blue so common in summertime back in Michigan.
Yeah, it's 85 out. But it's not ambient that is running through the radiator! It's a superheated layer of air...leading my to wonder if that cooling slot for the radiator should be as high as possible in the front of the car to get the coolest air ducted into the radiator.
Like I said, the way I drive, likely you will not encounter it unless you enter an endurance event. I literally ran a tank of gas out of the car one evening leaving St. Louis running 4750rpm in top gear...could go no faster maximum horsepower absorbed by aerodynamic drag. Stopped for gas, and 20 minutes later, was back up going 3500 rpms for another tank of gas. Stopped for gas, and did it again.
I learned driving at night, everything runs cooler, even if the ambient doesn't change all that much!
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Just take an idle screw from an 82/83 N/A, hook it from the turbo J-Pipe to a fitting on the take manifold with 1/4" high pressure fuel line hose.
That will allow zero to 2,200 idle speed adjustment, just like the Euro Turbos.
The system is designed to idle with the throttle plate closed and specific bypass. The stop screw is a bit coarse and ends up meaning TPS readjustment, and eventual crudding of the plate with goo, meaning more issues later on.
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They all looked the same-- it wasn't really model specific. The heater components were either 240 or 260/280. Basically "early or late"--they made the ARA for the later models as well. It's a pretty simple universal application between the model years.
There was an application that put the York Compressor on the other side of the engine, under the distributor like where the Sanden goes on the stock turbo bracket (forged aluminum instead cast iron...)
All sorts of oddball kits out there back then. The Japanese under-dash kits were Refrigerator Box Truck Efficient! Blow smoke out and get condensation on the outside of the windows cold!
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If you buy the pumps new, don't fly back through New Jersey. Thieving bastards stole my four pumps, NIB, but left the greasy differential covers and fittings in ziplock bags.
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The coolers started in the R32's and as stated the Euro Turbo S130's and all Z31's have them... Nice systems, electrically driven. Far as I could see it's the same pump on the differential and on the tranny (two pumps, two heat exchangers.)
I'm not aware of Nissan 4x4 fitments. I speak specifically to Nissan components used in their performance models specifically designed to cool the gear oil in the transmission and differential. No crossed applications, no guessing. When you get a possibility of pushing 200HP continuously through an R200 and higher speeds were common, it seemed like Nissan put a cooler and switch/relay on it. The pump did not run continuously, it was triggered by a sensor in the cover to turn it on and off. The cover had a filter screen of fine brass mesh, stand tube, and vent-- picked up from the cover, returned on the nose of differential to come through the inboard bearing (there is a slat on the housing where it was drilled...) I don't think the USA got them due to our relatively Third-World driving speeds near the population centers, and cost reasons being Americans won't pay for anything and will sue if you put it on and they can blame you for a failure afterwards. If it's not there, it can't fail, and if it can't fail then no contributing negligence in design...
The same setup was used on the transmissions.
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The Mikuni manifold has both sets of hardware, and can be used on either bolt pattern. You can use either depending on what head configuration you have. I like four bolts, less to tighten, less to drop.
Manifolds pre 75 won't have that dual use feature, and can be identified by the "humpy" nature of the flange...just like the original Nissan SU manifold. Flat spot for the EFI bolt is not present on them.
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Undersized cheap relays burn up contacts, induce voltage drop, cause problems.
Relays were never "work or don't" -- your voltage readings told you that, your jumper test directly to the pump from the battery told you that, you just discounted it in both instances for some reason.
/Obi Wan Haunting Voice/
"Blackdog NY, trust your instruments, they show lack of The Electromotive Force!"
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Again, the L28ET is not suitable why?
Plenty of 300-350HP L28ET's out there, no driveline modifications...
I've had mine in there since 1985 and well over 40,000 miles using it as a daily driver for quite some time.
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My girlfriend says "You should not be drinking and writing e-mails!"
Too Late.
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Now, realising I misread 240 for 280....
Everything still applies, but all the components exist in junkyard cars to put the factory AC system in the car that blows THROUGH the evaporator, instead of sucking air over it. From an efficiency standpoint, that is better.
On a factory system, you just need the better fan volume from the Honda to boost system efficiency.
If you get the 1974 260Z FSM, in fact, the back of the AC Section has a whole section with step-by-step instructions to convert a stock non-AC heater system, and swap in a factory system. Read that and weigh your options.
I took out my aftermarket system, and reinstalled a stock factory system using that as a guideline (retaining my higher capacity fan) and was happy with the results.
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Oh, and the biggest thing you can do to boost your AC efficiency besides making sure ALL the air goes across the evaporator, and NO leaks for warm air to get into the fan without going across the EVAP....is to boost your fan capacity and get more air exchange across the EVAP/cooler.
The aftermarket cars used the same fan as stock, the most people did was put the later 280Z fan onto the existing motor. That is a fart in a windstorm compared to the Honda blower. You get more air at "Lo" than you did on High before!
You want to seal all those leaks when you drop the cooler to get to the fan. I used HVAC duct foam to make a proper gasket, and a small bottle jack to get it positioned and compress the gasket (and hold it in place) while I re screwed the brackets.
That setup with a rear window louvre (and tint if you can--I didn't have it) ran 70F inside the car doing 80+ across I80 in 103F heat!
"Acceptable"! They get a bad wrap mostly from air bypassing the cooler, and insufficient fan delivery for adequate air exchange.
Fix those two things (and get that nice quiet Sanden in there) and that system should work great. I use Freeze-12 in my setup when I replaced the compressor...but even with the York and Freeze 12 OR R134, I could get 37 degrees center-register air temps. There is sufficient capacity on compression and condensing...it's those leaky evaporator housings that let uncooked air bypass, and poor fan volume that kill the system after a few decades! Get it sealed up, and you will be surprised how well it works.
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Standard ARA or Frigi-King setup that utilized a York AC compressor. You will find them on many domestic cars as well.
If you want better performance and a quieter compressor, just swap to a Sanden Rotary off a 280Z or 280ZX. You can run their front pulley and accessory drive with the larger belts. Common conversion to get that klunky York corn popper compressor off the side of the engine.
They do make nice air compressors as they pump to 250+ psi!
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Standard rate is $125 hourly, portal to portal all expenses at cost plus 15%...
Oh, wait... There's beer. That's good enough!
Hope you get a hand! I'm tied up. But really it's more daunting reading about it, than doing it.
You should be able to do it yourself. As long as you aren't working on your primary driver that you "need" on Monday to get to work...
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Get yourself the pump and switches out of a GT-R (heck, and the air cooled cooler while you're at it!) and go for it.
What you describe came on Z31's in Europe, and if you cruise West Texas at the "legal I10 Limit" during the summer you are well into the zone where this would be advisable.
Nissan did it for a reason, sustained high speed driving even in chilly Europe will heat things up where lubrication is marginal with non-synthetics.
I refuse to run non-synthetics when my R180 got hot enough after running from Riverside to ElPaso in a day that the plastic breather melted off and dropped into the crossmember behind it, and the mineral oil burned up so black that you couldn't smell the hypoind any longer...
Transmission? Hell dude, I'd put one on the differential as well!
All the parts exist in the Nissan Catalogs to do this--it's a factory-standard setup!
R200's in Europe on S130 Turbos in fact, had a differential cooler straight from Nissan. The Z31 got both a tranny and differential cooler.
Now, in the radiator? That's a long run...the stock coolers are under the car and seem to cycle the pump, so the cooling you need may not rise to exchanger in the rad level... It's really more set up for low-vis ATF, don't know how it will do with 90 or 140wt!
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Again, caveat being WHERE the street might be!
Climbing the Baker Grade into Vegas at 85 ambient, with 160-170 thermal layer on the radiator cooling airflow level is a lot more strenuous than running up the local Hillclimb at 85 with a 90F radiator cooling airflow.
I've had people tell me there is NO WAY my breather melted off my R180, too. Running stock engine...it was 120F into Phoenix in June and I was climbing the grade to Chirraco Summit at 85 mph... No, you don't need a differential cooler for street use. But when th even MELTS OFF, it might .... Maybe.... Be suitable to street use!
When I went to TI Zedaway in 2001, those jaunts were 16-18 hours daily, doing 85+ (maybe triple digits for hours on end but that would be illegal, and I'd never do anything like that...) stop for 20 minutes to fuel up, then back at it.
Outside endurance racing, I don't know many places you will do that. And it's my "street reality"... Once I got to the aerosol-covered grey sky Mideast and East Coast...everything ran cooler. But in the desert southwest, even on a "street car"... "Margin in the cooling system is a good thing"!
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That's Fred Sangalang's car... wait until you see it up on it's integral, central rotisserie post for rotary display at car shows!
Fred will never leave his cars alone. it was not turbo when at Santiago Canyon. It is now.
Ang Pinoy Custom!
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My stock 73 tank worked fine for...29...going on 30 years because I used two pumps and a proper surge tank.
And I couldn't be bothered to change it to an EFI tank that would need the same damn thing anyway.
For a stock conversion, a 75 EFI tank makes it easier for hooking up a stock pump...that's about it.
Turbo Cam
in Turbo / Supercharger
Posted
Racer Brown is a pretty modern grind as they were ahead of their time...
Isky should have something that will work.