Mikelly

RSIcard, It's REALLY hard to get the hood clearance when your intake manifold and your mounting for your engine is different from others. I personally find your comment above a little offensive given THOSE factors. The F'n hood hit on the F'n 4 inch elbow and forced my carbon hood to flex, not to mention it didn't do a damned thing for those nice hood vents I installed. I appreciate your input, but sometimes you don't account for all the factors when sharing your wisdom. Mike

Story of my life... I stil got to send you some pics of Orange Crush...

$15K and You can have it as it sits right now... I will have it sitting outside the shop ready to be picked up. My wife claims that this car is a family member and I can't sell it... Funny she didn't find the humor when I mentioned some foreign culters where children are sold off to the sex trade... Mike

Madovic, You captured it well my friend. Pete, It's just a hint of what I think is missing. I'd have to spend more coin to get it where she needs to be... We'll see where it ends up, but I'm thinking I need a change, motor or car. If I could only get Mark Icard to buy it... Mike

And the only argument I have to all of this is yet this car hasnt been able to achieve any of it and it is due to the lack of ability to get the crank vented properly. Which gets back to the root of why I am pulling and selling this motor. The arguments all make sense until you live the last three friggin' years, of which I have lived. I am done screwing around with and wasting time on this motor. In order to make the power I think I will need, I will have to replace a cam or heads or both and more hardware. So why the HELL not do it with the LS1 and gain the weight reduction on the powerplant in the process??? Not to mention resolving serious exhaust header clearance and flow issues in the process? I know, I know, Its Mike being "Mike" again.

I did a set of wheels on my Porsche GT3 and loved the results. I plan to do the Z with a new color. Mike

Not sure if this is as much an issue, but may be contributing factor... The Tokicos dont like spring rates above 250#. Mike

Pete, My friend you haven't been fortunate enough to run your car hard enough at the track to know if it will or won't have issues like this or others, and neither has RSicard. Guys you just don't know until you're pulling 1.5 Gs in a corner. Matt Isbell has a TEAM that keeps him up and running. Some of the dambdest things occur at these speeds and on a car 40+ years old, well you know, things are going to happen at a more frequent rate. I'm fine with debugging, as long as I'm getting to enjoy SOME of the potential, but for god's sake LET ME SAMPLE SOME OF IT!!!! You guys are in the "Old school" camp for the motor. I get it. It is what you have and what you know. That's cool. But that also means little to me at this point. I want the car running and as close to OEM reliable as possible. And oh, I want it to run faster and turn more rpm. It isn't going to run the times I had hoped based on the numbers... It just ain't gonna do it, and it damned sure won't when peak power is at 5500 RPM. It's time for a change... Car or motor... I'm temporarily picking motor in hopes that all the development in the car will pay off. I have $10K to throw at this. Hopefully that will "git-R-done". If it doesn't, I'll be taking Keith's advice and putting it on Ebay and Racing Junk with some high price attached to it in hopes that some shake wants a unique car and doesn't care about the price. Mike

The subsystems that do not currently work will not remain, simple as that. What will remain? Coolant system, never been an issue. Oil Cooler and oil filter assembly, they flow well and show ZERO issues with oil pressure which I log from the FAST efi. The FAST efi. It simply works, and works well AND is integrated with the data logger/dash display. Transmission, it works. What gets replaced? The Accusump will be replaced with either a dry sump (assuming I keep it) or nothing (assuming I sell). Bellhousing/clutch/slave hydraulics (They won't work anyway with the LS1 style setup. Illogical or not, that motor is nolonger an option. The options are replace the motor or part the car out. This is not up for debate.

Sean, Answers to some of your assumptions below... For a recap, Let’s rewind to 2011. I had issues with the carb not performing properly and the car not making the best of power. So, I ditched that in favor of EFI in the winter of 2011. In the process, we also found that the traditional 75amp alternator couldn’t keep up with the electrical installed in the car at the time. Eventually I broke down and counted the consumable power of the electronics and found that the car needed a high output alternator to keep pace. 2012 also saw that the fuel couldn’t keep up under heavy cornering. So in the process of “fixing†the electrical issues, I went ahead and installed a “Black box†with fuel pump internally integrated into the fuel cell. That unit fixed all fueling issues. While I was at it, I replaced all the gauges, the wiring and the dash. After all that was complete, late August time frame I was getting ready for the track when I checked the oil filter and found metal. Then found that I had indeed swapped an oil feed/return line. SO the motor was rebuilt with new rods and main bearings and rings. Motor was installed in December/January timeframe and I was able to get it running, but was trying to plumb the crank evac to first, the exhaust with didn’t work well, then thru the snorkel which DID work well but ended up choking power as reported during my dyno outing. For some clarification, the car doesn't and has never had a drysump. The motor is a simple 1st gen SBC with wetsump pan, Mellins Blue printed pump with high volume spring. The oil system consists of a remote canton filter, remote Accusump that is a 2 Quart unit, and an oil cooler that sits infront of the radiator. When the car was on the dyno 10 days ago we had ZERO issues with crank pressure. I had THREE car builders look at the car, and the only recommendation they made was that electrical pump, which when working, pulled enough crank case pressure out of the motor. When not working, obviously there is ZERO vent which means no way for the pressure to escape, which in turn explains why oil is coming out of the seals. As to the electrical issues, I rewired the car with SINGLE RUN full length, UNSPLICED wiring and soldered and shrinkwrapped all 9 of the circuits that are not associated with the FAST EFI system. All of that electrical wiring was fine until this past week. So obviously something has caused an issue, but it's simple to fix and I will troubleshoot that and move on. The electrical side of the house is the least of my worries. For the record there was ZERO factory wiring or plumbing when I got the car, and last summer when I removed the aluminum dash and harness, I converted everything to the FAST dash integration, along with all the above mentioned single strand runs. Total of 9 circuits and no factory wiring. In the process I documented all of the wiring, so again, it should be reasonably easy to resolve that issue at the track or at home. I had the dash removed within 5 minutes and on the work bench. As to whether the motor is or isn't a problem, my realities are as follows: The motor/oiling issue has plagued the car. I've had 4 solid mechanics look at the issue and all of them have been stumped at times, and then all of them have agreed that the solution applied should work. I try the various solutions and they work, and then they don't for various reasons. That said, I will bet large sums of money that the leak down numbers will come back within spec, yet again. One 2.5 mile ride in the car isn’t going to crack a ring. The dipstick fortunately didn’t come unseated. My opinion is that the motor and this car simply do not mix. I have owned this motor in various configurations since my very first engine swap in 1998. The motor has been paid for over many years now. Selling it and moving to something more current will only remove one aspect of the issue I’ve had with the platform. But hey what do I know? At this point emotion is certainly a part of it. As to the “I can’t win†aspect of the project, Hey I don’t know a single person who wouldn’t feel equally frustrated given the chance to be in my shoes, and given the ride I’ve taken on this project. That said, I choose to part the car out, I am 110% confident in the quote I can get for the sum of the parts. If the car is running, I’ve been offered $25K TWICE in the past two years. I will admit that I have regretted not selling it, but at times been as glad I didn’t. As to the comments about the LS1, here again, some info has been missed… I own an LS1 shortblock. I own a pair of Ceramic Coated headers. I own an LS6 intake and Nick Williams Tbody. I also own a range of other LS1 based parts. I need to have that shortblock freshened, and buy a set of heads/cam and install it. I have a stock oil pan. I also have the drysump pan I bought from Mark Icard. And I’m VERY confident that the car with an LS1 in it would sell very well. But that 383 stroker will not be in that car once the electrical issues are resolved and the motor is running again. I will pull it, sell it whole or part it out. That motor, and I don’t care what side of the fence anyone is on with regards to which is better, but THAT motor will not be in THAT CAR any longer than it has to. Time to move it off the table.

Sean, The satisfaction level would be reasonably high. I would then be allowed to focus on the areas of improvement and continued development of the platform. Instead I am simply wasting time and money. I was talking with Tom this afternoon about it. The chassis has potential but the gremlins have robbed so much of my ability to appreciate the creation. Time will tell but I know big changes are coming for me. Mike

You sir have got me looking at Vettes again... Mike

Over the last several weekend events my hood has become looser and looser at the pins. We will have to adjust the pins, and probably re-mount the rear pins lower since I'm out of thread to adjust down further. We will likely have to extend the spoiler lower to try and remove as much of the clearance ot the ground as possible. I think our hood vents will work properly, but as with any piece that is constantly take off the car, constant attention ot fit is mandatory. Mike

You guys are all right, of course. I plan to resolve this motor and electrical problem ASAP. Mike

Mark and Matt, You two guys know what it is like to be out on track at speed chasing down cars of much higher caliber. There are very few old Datsun Zcars out there getting it done. You two know how much is required to get to that level of performance. So all that said, you two should understand my level of dissatesfaction and frustration. I've missed several seasons of driving at that level because of this car and more specifically the issues associated with the current build. To me, a car guy first, it is more about the driver and the experience they are having in the car than about the car itself. I am a car guy, and always have said "I'm not a [insert brand/make/model here] guy. I like cars and going fast in them". So bang on the Porsches all you want, but a guy certainly spends more time driving (Which I enjoy far more than wrenching) and less time "troubleshooting" the next round of headaches. I would be less critical and less "bitchy" about it I'm sure, if I had more actual drive time in this car. But I don't. I took the car to Watkins Glen Newyork three years ago where the Datsun was the marque of honor. I barely got the car to the "all Datsun" show grounds. I couldn't even enjoy laps in the car on the track because of bugs... Every time I've had it at the track over the last three years, I get a few shake down laps, and then it gets put in the trailer. Yet, in the nearly FIVE YEARS I owned that little black "evil" Porsche Turbo it was down at the track ONCE out of 54 DAYS on track and that failure was My fault for not properly attaching a line to the slave cylinder. ONE TIME in five years. Really hard to argue that. I don't think I'm asking to much of my car to simply expect to be able to go out and enjoy a 20-30 minute track session so I can do simple things like make a decision on shock settings or tire pressures so I can actually SEE if the car has potenial to actually chase down higher HP cars. I can't even tell any of you with any level of certainty that this car is cabable of ANYTHING other than sitting in the pits and draining my wallet even more. And I should probably not put this in print for fear of damaging any chance to get $15-20K out of the car, but at this point I don't know that the car will be fast enough to keep up with a well sorted 4 cylinder track car. THAT is a sad footnote, but that is the honest truth because I can't drive the damned thing long enough to even ensure my brake bias is properly set. So while you guys are waxing poetic about the fanciful dreams of the mighty Datsun V8 Zcar out there laying down the smack on track to much higher caliber cars, to me it's nothing more than a pipe dream... I am a DAMNED good driver. I just simply need a DAMNED reliable car to get me where I want to be. Wrenching every spare moment on something that isn't returning dividends is something I'm no longer interested in. Sorry, but the hard work and effort has to bear fruit or the tree gets cut down. It is our reality in life. Anyway, enough of that... I put the car in the air yesterday afternoon and started it with the breather hoses disconnected so the motor could vent to the atmosphere. I managed to start the car with a remote starter trigger mounted under the hood. Of course for some reason the fuel pump isn't getting power, and the in car starter button isn't getting power. So I went ahead and removed the dash. I'll start de-bugging whatever electrical issue there is and sort all that out and make damned sure that is resolved before I pull the 383 stroker out. My plan right now is to pull the motor out and assess the seals in the motor. Oil was pushed out of the front main seal and the oil pan. So regardless the motor will need to be "regasketed" in those areas. Fortunately the oil didn't come out of the dipstick. I'll get the motor cleaned up, recheck the leakdown numbers, incase a buyer is interested, and just get it ready to move to someone else who will certainly get a great deal. I am going to sell the EFI intake/injectors/rails/Tbody separately because I feel that I can recoupe some of my losses by doing so. I have $1500 in the last rebuild on this motor from back in December, which included new rings and bearings, and I'll take a peak at the bearings while the pan is off, but there should be zero wear on a motor with less than an hour actual run/drive time since rebuild. After that, I'm not sure. Part of me wants to throw an LS1 stock into the car, and then put it up for sale. Running and driving it will fetch a higher price than as a roller. Of course I could part it out and get a fair price for all the parts. I know all that carbon fiber is worth a decent price, along with the suspension/brakes/wheels/tires... The complete Q45 rear setup should bring a fair amount considering the axles alone would cost $1000 to duplicate. And that TKO trans would go quick... I've calculated in my head and I could part the whole car out and walk away with about $15K...If I went that route, I'm thinking I would crush the chassis to get back at the bitch for stealing 12 years of my life with such poor results in the process. There has to be something cathartic about that, right?

So it's 0530 in the morning on a Friday, July 5th. I've read and appreciate everything said by all of you, except Mark Icard. Mark, NO I'm not buying that Orange you call a car, even if it does seem to run well, which reminds me I need to send you those pics of your car at Charlotte. I'm most likely going to unload the car. That said, I need it running in order to capitalize on one tenth my investment which means I need it fix. The 383 stroker is being pulled and sold. I am totally done with this motor and will not drive this car again with the current motor in place. It will most likely come out of the car this weekend and the car will be put to bed while I sort other issues. If someone is interested in a forged/ internally balanced motor with aluminum heads/intake efi, ping me offline. I'll take $2500 for it at this point, including clutchkit/bellhousing still attached. and I'm dead serious. I'm also going to install an LS1 and get it running, To address a couple comments above... Gollum, I thought I was going to be able to track the mustang, then I talked with no less than SIX guys on the east coast who have broken transmissions in these new Mustangs. I'll be unloading mine for something I can drive everyday and at the track. Most likely a Corvette or Porsche Cayman S. NewZed, I have half inch lines running from the valve covers to, first a setup that was plumbed AS FACTORY to a snorkel filter, and now to that electric pump, which is also 1/2 inch line fittings. I don't know what else would be needed to vent crank pressure. Clarkspeed, I hear you and can appreciate the wisdom shared by yourself and others here. But I'm getting ready to turn 47 on Sunday. I'd have hoped that after 12 years of building this thing I would have at least appreciated one full running session in this 2600 pound albatros hanging around my neck. But no, sadly that is not to be. On the plus side I can't complain about consumables because I can't seem to consume them. Seanof30306 thank you for a wonderfully entertaining story.

Gollum, Thanks for reminding me not to be so open with my feelings or my thoughts... I guess there isn't a stock motor turbo car that hasn't had similar issues, and lord knows they don't every pop or eat head gaskets or any other issues. But you are right. Everything on this car is not Datsun, and every failure with this car is mine for building it in the first place, so all I can say is you are right. Keith, is what it is. Right now I don't have the extra coin to spend at the rate I once had. If all works out, I will soon enough. Until then I will have to sort out things best I can. Mark, Are you crazy? I will never own another Datsun Zcar if/when I call it quits with this nightmare. Here is a little clip of my overjoyed and successful two days at VIR. Sorry the footage is so short. I couldnt fit it all on the movie, and only the best will do for you guys! We are home and unpacked. My student made the last two days worth while, and I was able to get him not only pointed in the right direction for turning the proper fast line, but was able to get him smooth and consistant enough that the check-off ride to move to SOLO went flawless. The senior instructor commented that if his S2000 was faster, they would bump him to the RED rungroup. That is saying a whole lot. I guess that is where my talents must lay, helping others get faster. Lord knows I cant seem to drive my own car on the track. But hey, I am not complaining anymore... Not to this crowd... Thanks. Mike

Keith, thats the thing. There is nothing exotic about the motor. It is a stanard chevy 1st gen v8. I appreciate the encouragement to "stay in the game" and "keep at it" but three years and 8 events, not one single full session complete. Easy to give advice to continue pouring money and time into it until you live it with this particular project. Trust me. I don't know what I am going to do right now, but if anyone ever asked my opinion on building one of these cars in the future I would tell them to take up golf. So fuqin disgusted with this project and this experience at this point.

Brand new everything. Two wire, one to ground, one to power with an inline fuse. Nothing sophisticated. I am beginning to think it is time to cut bate. This "rod" doesn't want to fish, it seems. Actively shopping track cars right now.

Sidelined, yet again. Crank case pump blew a fuse pushing oil out of the motor, filling it with smoke and something associated with the starter quit working. Car had to be towed in. Frustration is an understatement. Goddamn I miss my Porsche. Mike

Low low turnout so far... Less than 50 cars total, but of those, 2 Ferrari 458 racecars. Matt, We met up with the guys from Canada. I volunteered to do ride-alongs tomorrow. So I am on the phone with Matt, Driving 55 mph in my diesel rig hauling my trailer in the heaviest rain I have seen in a while... I see out of the corner of my eye a tree falling, I am talking at that moment with Matt about the sad footnote of another tree falling, that tree being OAKTREE at T12 VIR. The tree I am worried about falls down an embankment and somehow my trailer and truck miss it as it falls into the highway behind me, somewhere on the Rt29 bipass around LInchburg, Va. Sorry to those following in the blinding rain, because someone probably hit that tree behind me... Going to be an interesting two days. My student has an S2000, and My car has only slicks and no wiper assembly. I hope like hell it dries out!!! Mike

I'm going to drop the LS1 shortblock off with the engine shop on August 1. I have made the decision to go with the LS1 as soon as the combo is worked out and the motor is built. Mike

I wouldn't focus on numbers at all... The dyno I use is horribly low, but is also the type that allows a load to be applied to the drum. Stock 2006-2013 Z06 Corvettes generally roll 370-380 WHEEL HP on it. We don't chase numbers though, as we use it as a tool to test combinations in the hunt for speed. If that's the dyno you're going to use consistently, you might want to get familiar with it, and ask the dyno guy lots of questions. Will he be tuning it for you? Did they not log any AFRs? Mike.

BTW, I stopped by Pepboys yesterday and bought one of these (Yes air intake setup #6): http://www.jegs.com/i/Spectre/865/47622/10002/-1?parentProductId= I figured the top being filter material can only help the situation. Car is loaded up and ready to depart to VIR this afternoon. I'll report back over the course of the next two days. We will be playing with AFRs and timing throughout the coming days if all goes well! Mike

Tim, Unfortunately We indeed DID test the larger unit without the piping. The loss of power was the same as with the piping. The thought is the "carb style" efi intake/Tbody style are horrible for a setup like that. My fitment issues boil down to getting around the strut bar. Maybe I need to spend more time revamping that as well, as I sort the other issues out. I appreciate the comments from the group here. THIS is why I wanted to share this info.