pparaska

You can just T into the line from the Holley to the vacuum can.

JMO, $2.50 is dirt cheap. I just wish people would quit commuting by themselves long distance in huge gas sucking SUVs, just because it's the cool vehicle to have.

Joshua, that would certainly be alot cheaper - using the hedman headers and hacking. I guess I've been won over a bit by Ed Henneman's literature, etc. Being an anal retentive mechanical engineer, I find what Ed has to say about headers really resonates with me. His view is that most headers are just plumbing to get the exhaust to the mufflers. He makes a vaild point that spending many thousands of dollars on building an engine from the point of air and fuel entry to the exhaust ports seems a bit silly if you are leaving performance on the table (or even making it worse than manifolds might give you) by not designing a header for the task. Or at least using one that is has a decent design. Then again, it's not like I have the time to build a set of custom headers to be able to get my 406 on the road by the ZCCA convention... BTW, what size or the primaries and collectors on the truck headers?

Awesome!!! Get the camera person down by the fence next time - we want to see the action up close! And hear those twin turbos spinning . That thing looks like a Pro Mod launching!

After reading through all of the literature from 'Headers by "ED"' (I ordered his entire literature package and the CD), I'm guessing I'll need 1-7/8" primaries with 3 1/4" collectors. According to his literature, a V8 making 480-580 hp should use 1-7/8" primaries (at least 34" long) and anywhere from 3" to 3 1/2" collectors. Oh yeah, let's not forget getting these designed so that all straight and angle plug variations will have plenty of clearance. It can be done, it just has to be considered in the design. Another issue with the SBC is port shape and size. Lots of options there...I'm wondering if we should have them designed with the Stahl type flanges welded to the headers, and use the head mounted adapter flange to make up some of the difference in port shape and size. I've VERY close to ordering a DIY header kit from Headers by ED. I figure if I get the version of the kit with the pipe stubs already welded to the flange, with the correct flange shape/size, and build them to the specs he suggests through his header design service, I could build a set that could be copied by some company. I'd probably build them by getting them all tacked together and take them to a TIG pro to have finish welded. One thing is for sure. The 1-5/8" block hugger is NOT a header, it's a cheap and easy way to pipe the exhaust to the mufflers.

Sweet! What's next, an V8 swap FAQ?

O.k. - a detuned Smart then Court was this morning. The balding, overweight laser operator half of the team (the ticket writer was a HOTTIE!), was there this morning in court, as well as the hottie. Coming back from lunch, saw the same laser operator shooting and giving out tickets on the same road - not even the end of the month (for quotas). We have a dedicated speed trap crew here in Howard County MD. Don't get caught with your pants down if driving through here. The wife was driving, had to tell her to slow down so she wouldn't get nailed too. Hmm. Starting research on how to duplicate the 360 stealth system. But for now, I'll let the wife drive or use the freaking cruise control and take my chances of getting plowed from the rear by the 90% of drivers that are NOT going slower than 15mph on the high side of the speed limit.... Summit Point is 1.5hrs away. I think I'm going to have to budget track days to get my speed fix.....

Mike, sorry to hear about your stepson. That's got to be hitting him hard. I hope no one was hurt. I just got back from traffic court. I had probation before judgement from last May, for a speeding ticket I got in Nov 2003. Straight, flat 2 way rural road with a ridiculously low 30 mph limit. Cop going the other way clocked me at 51 mph (thanks, could have written it for 49, he is a known prick). Got another one out on our local highway, freeway really, back in July 2004. 3 lanes each way, wide shoulders. 55mph. Everyone does 65+. I was doing 73 and got hit with LIDAR in a big speed trap with 4 cop cars there. Even after postponing, there were 5 other people at a postponed trial today that got nabbed. Some chick doing 98 got balled out. I got reduced from 1 to 2 points, lower fine. Now I'm probably going to get the other 2 points from the PBJ on top of that. 3 points, my insurance co for the Z may pull my insurance on the Z, even though both tickets were for speeding in another car I own that's not on the policy I have with them. Doesn't matter points are points. The moral is I live in an area (Howard Cty Maryland) that has an incredibly high cop/citizen ratio, and they are rabid about speeding tickets. Doesn't help that I live a mile from a big county cop station, so I run into them constantly. The citizenry are less and less accepting of "speeding", no matter how ridiculously low the limits are. They call the cops, and the cops have to respond with patrols and speed traps to quell them. Between that and the low speed limits that 80 percent or more of the people disobey by 10-30 mph plus, we have alot of revenue going into the coffers. And the insurance company's pockets too... So how much is enough power? On the street, probably about 30hp. Maybe my daily driver needs a speed governor. Those $2000+ 360 degree stealth systems are worth the money... http://www.1-radar-laser-jammers-detectors.com/radar-jammers-laser-jammers-detectors.html Sorry, a bit down on street driving today. But this talk of too much power just got re-calibrated for me today. Anybody got a Yugo for sale? Maybe a Smart car. I dunno.

Mark, all: Would less talent be needed to build the exhaust if the headers were made to clear the pan in the first place? It seems as though those that would spend bigger money for full length headers (than block huggers) may also have a Canton pan with the kickouts. I think any long tube headers should be designed to fit the Canton pan. If that's the case, I see no reason that the primaries should be any lower than the Canton Pan (7" from the oil pan rail). They may have to be a bit lower towards the aft end of the block, but the trans/bellhousing is low there anyway, and the pipes may need to go lower (not more than needed!) there. Another fitment issue is the bellhousing. I'm using the Lakewood bellhousing, which is designed for the larger flywheel. It's a beast. Having the headers point past this (which I think is the largest) bellhousing and the largest auto trans (700R4?) is also a must. No sense having these designed if they won't fit the largest majority of applications. That being said, I think they should be designed for 1-7/8" primaries, and have another (easier to build) version with 1-3/4". 1-5/8" would be about as small as they should go, and 2" seems beyond what anyone needs. When you go past 1-3/4", many people feel you need to go to the 2-piece Hooker or Stahl head flanges. That can cause fitment issues, since it pushes the tube beginning out further from the head.

Well, Art (SportZ2) has another company interested in doing this right: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=98544 It'd be great if SOME COMPANY would do this. But do it RIGHT!

MSA's headers are supposedly the S&S 5205, according to several people on this site. That's right, the long tube 1-3/4" headers for 28-34 Fords with the SBC. 3" collector. They don't fit well in the JTR position (maybe the MSA is further forward for this reason alone?) SportZ2 has a thread (I just responded to) about having someone else design and build headers for the Z with the engine in the JTR position. Check that out too. BTW, I found the S&S 5205s from another vendor for $296: http://www.jwclassics.com/jw/ssheaders.asp Gouging for drop shipping the 5205s - need I say more (hint).

I'm in!!!!! This is one of the places the JTR conversion is lacking, IMO, especially for higher HP V8s versus mild ones. At this point, I am looking at a very optimized 406 SBC that should be putting out 550 lbft/hp once the converted Hilborn gets done and everything is together. But the 1-5/8" block huggers headers will strangle that down quite a bit I'd imagine. I've not really spared a lot on this engine since the short block was built (heads, roller cam, etc.), so skimping in the headers/exhaust and using my existing setup doesn't make sense. If this doesn't work out, I may buy some S&S 5205s and hack them up to make them fit. Either that or spend the next winter making a custom set. I don't want to either. The real question is tube size. Too large a primary can kill the low end. I'm thinking 1-3/4 may even be enough for my engine. Just as important are primary tube length, collector diameter and design (merged / tapered) and near equal length. Well, that's what all the literature from HeadersByEd.com says anyway. Anyone know what the primary length of the S&S headers are (and how much they vary)? Spending $300-$500 on headers means they should fit AND give performance. Not just fit..

Bill, Way to GO! That paint will burn off the headers right away. No biggie, once you get them to fit right, just take them off and send them to Jet-Hot. I have a V8 240Z, a 92GSXAWD. Now if I had an R1 we'd be vehicle twins .

Check these threads. ALL the info on driveshaft adapters for the R200 you could want. There are about 5 Neapco/Spicer/Dana parts that work. The part number through each of the Neapco/Spicer/Dana catalogs I believe are the same, for the same parts. Someone needs to take these threads and pull the info on what part fits what diff flange, etc. I will try to find time. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=66296 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=67761 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=70762 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=71607 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=71917 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=72269 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=72283

I have the JTR mounts and run a high rise Holley dual plane. I don't know exactly how it compares to the Air Gap, but it's about the same as the Victor Jr. in height. With a Holley carb, and 14x3 drop base Moroso air cleaner, I had 1/2" of clearance. The Holley 4bbl TBI is actually about 3/4" shorter than the carbs, so that could add some clearance. You think you have worries, I'm going to be fitting a Hilborn stack injector with short bell stacks and I want it under the hood. Of course my buddy Glenn McCoy is trying to get me to put a clear section in the stock hood to show them off . One of the great things about the JTR placement is the ability to get a large air cleaner on the engine without a scoop. But I want to move away from the engine inducting hot under-hood air. I never did go to the setup Mike Kelly had on his car (can't remember the name - 14" air cleaner with snorkels and ducts to the radiator support). Anyway, hot under-hood air is a horsepower sink we should try to get rid of with these setups that use a traditional single or dual plane manifold.

If they set up the jig for 1-7/8 to start with, they should be able to use the same jig for 1-3/4". That is, if they jig well...and bend well. http://www.headersbyed.com/fit.htm

I'm very interested. But I'm still waffling on 1-3/4 vs 1-7/8.

Very sorry to hear you guys are having problems. As for 240-280Z's, the JTR's manual is a lot better than two bad pages of instructions. JTR's mounts down require any welding to make, and can be bought fairly cheap. I see them on ebay once and a while too. I'd never let MSA build a custom driveshaft. That's best left to pros. Just about any decent sized town has a driveshaft shop. Or order one from a specialist (driveline.com, etc.). Not an I told you so, but thanks for sharing. I just wanted others to know that the JTR book and parts are worth the price charged, which isn't much.

Dan, what are you up to? Got a Z for that?

Darn, I saw that wood too. It might be more than ten pouds though.

Thanks for that info, guys. I'll just contact them about having them made differently like I posted and see what's up. Otherwise, I may buy them stock or with less angle like John did and cut and section them myself.

I added those 3 scale readouts and got 756 lbs.

Funny, I was just discussing this with Mike Kelly last night but didn't know about this thread. John, thanks for that analysis of what needs to be done. I was wondering how much the horizontal section of primaries needed to be moved up. My thought was to modify the 5205 like this: 1) Make the 90 degree turn in the bunch of 4 primaries as they come straight down less (1 inch on driver's side, 2 inches on passenger's side, according to John) for more ground clearance. 2) Maybe make the turn less than 90 degrees to have them point down a bit towards the back of the car. 3) Have them use a Merge Collector (3" outlet) 4) Slip on fit setup instead of 3 bolt flange. 5) Make the ends of the primaries come out as wide as possible, to clear the widest trans (my Lakewood Bellhousing is wide, the Auto trannies are wide too). 6) Make sure they will clear the Canton 15-240 Road Race pan with the kickouts. 7) Any other tweaks to get them to not hit the steering shaft, mounts, etc. I was going to order an uncoated set with the modification (1), install and tweak to fit, send them back for any refinements, test fit, repeat until happy, then send them back to possibly be used as a new part number for us. I haven't moved on this. Primary size is a big concern. My 406 will be turning 6400 rpm max, so I know that will be a driver. But 2" may be too big. I was considering 1-3/4, or maybe 1-7/8. Too big will make it a pig . Any movement on taking a V8Z to them? I'd hope they could at least mock up the wings of the Canton pan on a stock one for this exercise, since a few of us are using that pan.

I line up with several of the poster's above: Enough is when you have enough power, at all rpms, to be afraid to use it all. Also, John Scott, said it for me: "Just don't use all of the gas pedal!" (sic) Heck, even if you build a 500 hp SBC (which CAN be streetable, btw), you can just NOT USE ALL OF IT! Not ready for all of the pedal? Make a throttle linkage that only opens the carb or air door part of the way at full pedal. Change that linkage as you get used to the car. Or swap cams, or put on a really small air door or carb. My Z's 375 crank HP (estimated from the 110.4 mph 1/4 trap speed) seems fast, but I can tell you that there are plenty of times I wish it had more. A one of those times was when I was at the track day last year at the ZCCA convention at NHIS. There were plenty of times I was chasing TT Z's, etc. that I wanted to be closing to space between me and them more or faster. (Most of the time I was wishing the other slow pokes would pull over and wave me by --- grrrrrr.) The car was neutral, and I had the pedal to the metal alot of the time. I only got afraid to use the power when the braking zone was looming ahead. I'd brake very early, since that was what was frightening to me (going in too hot). But on the straights and coming out of the corners, I was on the pedal all the way, winding it to 6K+ rpm. I wanted MORE POWER! Sure, the driver didn't NEED more power to be fast and get even respectable lap times (mine were horrible, I'm sure), but the driver WANTED more. That's the difference between competitive driving and just driving around, I suppose. To me, on the street, a high, broad torque curve is most pleasureable. I don't want to have to shift down all the time to feel the thrust. So my choice is to have much more MAXIMUM torque and HP than I need or might use - to get the amount of lower rpm torque I want.