pparaska

Michael, that post was very lucid and well put. Thank goodness we have the ability (at this point) in the US to bitch and moan about things the government is doing that we don't like or believe in - and live free afterward.

The article on that judgement is here: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040930_417.html It's already falling apart!

Looks great! That's a cool looking and very functional mod!

I was just wondering how you got into it. Mike, if had your garage, tools, and LIFT, I'd be doing things like that too! Jim is really fun to be around and talk to and the car is really beautiful. The body work is A+++ and the paint is beautiful! The CCW wheels look GREAT under it and really look awesome from behind! I'm glad you took it on, as I really enjoyed seeing the car, having a hand in the project and meeting Jim. If those old wheels and tires weren't so wide, I'd buy them - nice old school look!

There are new block hugger header designs out now (Rewarder, for one) that have a different tube layout that allows room to go for angle plug. It used to be a big deal, but not really any longer.

Call me a knuckle-dragging muscle car type - but that thing sounds GREAT! Hmm. The LS motors have such bolt on potential. And Z32s with bad turbos can be had fairly cheap. SHWEEET! I love the "shift...Originality" stuff - great job! Replace shift with "screw" and it's all good .

I want to let you guys know that the water is under the bridge on this one. As far as I'm concerned anyway. I suggest everyone kiss and make up - it's not worth staying mad about anything personal that's happened in this thread. I still think this is one of the most interesting threads I've read on HybridZ. All in all, it was worth the slight detour that came in the end - especially if no one holds any grudges. I sure don't. I feel fuller having read and been a part of this thread. Great group of people - as usual a cut above the ordianry in actions and thought - a HybridZ tradition.

MikeJTR, It's funny that in a REALLY long thread we had debating the placement reasons we finally did come up with one really good reason to use the set-back position - to make the T5, Tremec 5spd or T56 shifter come out in the right place! Glad to hear we got it right . However, I still like the idea of moving the battery to the back AND moving the engine/tranny back. It makes the weight distribution very close to 50/50 (my car is 49/51 F/R with me in it). Maybe that's not a good thing though - lots of torque application means initial understeer as the weight shifts rearward. One thing that is a drawback to the set-back (and lower) engine position is that the oil pan is now lower (assuming a stock depth pan is used in both setups) and fully behind the front tires, making smacking the pan on a speed bump easier. I made things a bit better for my Z by using a now-unavailable from GM Corvette oil pan for the 2pc seal block. It's 7" deep versus 7.5". I just ordered a Canton Road Race pan PN 15-240 that's also 7" deep that I'll use on my 406 engine when that goes in. Another is that there's not really a long tube header that works well with the set-back position. The 30's Ford w/ Chevy V8 header is close, but hangs too low for my tastes.

I'm going to use some quotes from this long thread to make a point of what I mean about bad tone and what's appropriate or not. Some may feel what I'm representing is just good spirited discussion. I (and others) that want a more civil HybridZ think it steps over the line of into the land of "bad tone" and toward flamage. There are far to many wonderfully brilliant posts on this very thread refuting this very statement. Frankly, I'm shocked... ... to be reading that this is STILL your possition. Personally, I choose to fall into the catagory of the silent majority who know that WE are in charge of the Patriot Act... and as a Patriot, I choose to believe in the greater good of those we elect into office, giving them the responsibility of getting it done on our behalf. 1. Maybe I am using too many big words for you. Was it not fair my turning your own argument back at you? Pertinent or not? I am having a real problem with people using the word “sheeple†to seemingly discredit other people’s arguments when they are incapable of providing anything other than generalities to support their own arguments. My guess is the majority of the "sheeple" remain blissfully ignorant of anything to do with the patriot act. 2. One other thing. You might try taking a course on the constitution to better understand where the government, our government, derives it’s power. It really doesn’t matter to me what your beliefs are. If the elected representatives pass a law that is conflicts with the constitution, then they have violated the very contract which grants them their power. Probably 95% of the Patriot Act is benign, common sense procedural items that probably needed to be done anyway (check out the web site the DOJ created site to promote this very agenda: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov). But the other 5% does violate the spirit, if not the letter of the constitution. And I believe history will prove me right when the courts strike down those portions of the act. Wow... Don't know how I missed this one... but feel that I must respond. 1. LOOK, BONER, my IQ would make your freakin head spin... the facts have been overly reported by now and I have no reason to state anything more then a summary of said conclusions... TAX CUTS ALWAYS INCREASE THE GOV'S INTAKE BY STIMULATING THE ECONOMY... INCREASING THE PEOPLE'S SPENDING. There's just something about the people keeping more of their BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS... rather then allowing liberal pigs, like yourself, to STEAL IT!!! 2. What a superbly stupid attempt at insulting someone's understanding of such a supremely simple document. 3. Actually, as a business owner in the top 1% of income earners nationwide... net worth in the seven figures... there is nothing more simple then the "black and white" of the "books"... PERIOD... that statement alone outlines the massive depth of your own personal ignorance, related to these very issues. 4. As for the cute little reference to "Dave" the movie... just that, cute. I never "quoted" the movie. I simply stated that if an entrepreneur got in there and unfolded the budget... cutting out the pork... we could balance the budget, year after year... it's a fact. BUT, people and special interest groups would get cut and there would be liberal stories about the injustice... there simply is no winning in that arena! O.k. Look at the Red stuff. The Red is what I'd call "too heated" or "bad tone". Some may think that's PC, pansy, whatever. But its not accepted on HybridZ. It also makes the person look like they don't have anything worth saying, since they went toward hyperbole, name calling, "holier-than-though", or whatever other tactic that is not acceptable in a real debate. O.k. "BONER" was used in jest - but the part right after it was not acceptable. It was pulling the "I'm smarter than you" offense. But it was in response to numbers 1. and 2. in the post above it was quoting, that were pulling the same tactic. jab versus jab. It needs to stop after the FIRST jab, and be dealt with between the people OFFLINE. But not a back and forth on the forum. It adds NOTHING to the atmosphere or the content of the thread - just look at most of page 15 of this thread for an example of that. Another post: Look at the Dark Red stuff. That's a flame IMO (which matters because I'm one of the admins). And it's a flame at a Admin. If you don't like what an Admin does, DON'T respond in public. Bring it to all admin's/moderator's attention if you have a problem with it. Sorry, maybe it's the way I was brought up, but slamming the authority figure is something that rubs me the wrong way. Piss on the cops car, and what happens? It's not tolerated at HybridZ - no matter how right you think your comments to the admin/moderator are. There's LESS that free speech rights here on HybridZ. DON'T EVEN THINK about responding to what I've wrote above in this thread - PM or email me or the other admins or mods if you have something to say - this thread is not a forum for anyone (but the people who run HybridZ) to debate this issue of "bad tone". In other words, get back to the topic of the thread or don't post here.

O.k. - the rules need to be updated then. If it's not clear enough that some of what FF has been posting is in a TONE that won't be tolerated (not saying others haven't - but in mostly in response to that), then I will update the rules to make in impecably clear. This is a very tough topic to not get emotional about. Overall, I think we've done well. Let's get back to the topic at hand (Patriot Act, citizen's rights), if anyone has anything to ADD.

Freedomfighter: I understand that many may think there is nothing wrong with the tone - especially when I read stuff on other automotive sites. But the people who started HybridZ and who first joined wanted it to be a place where it seemed like you were at a good buddies house having a small friendly party where everyone was civil and well behaved. That means no name calling, little swearing, etc. Yeah, that might make you think we are pansies for wanting that, but really, we're not. We just want a refuge on the net from the antagonistic unfriendly stuff that is so common. We pay a price for that - being called pansies - but that's o.k. We like to keep the place incredibly civil - that was one of the main reasons this site was set up - to have a place on the net away from all that. This site (and Owen's original v8swappersforum.com) were started to get away from the purists on places like Zcar.com that whined and bitched everytime someone said anything about an American V8 in the Z. So we may seem a bit oversensitive to the typical Internet back-and-forth. It's because many of us look to this place to be our calm respite from all that. That's why the rules http://hybridz.org/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=24337 sound the way they do. We take it quite seriously to keep the place civil. I realize that the stuff on the news is worse in tone. Kerry and his supporters have stepped over my line of what's acceptable to say about a current US president many times. I realize the world as portrayed on TV, radio, media print is ugly - they do that to make money - dirt sells. HybridZ will hold itself to higher standards than what goes easily over on TV, etc. You can call us pansies for wanting it this way, but that won't change the fact that we will police the forums to uphold the rules to keep hybridZ incredibly civil. Afterall, the main purpose of this site is to exchange technical information - an instance of where being uncivil adds nothing to the exchange, since the technical posts need to deal with FACTS. Having a non-tech forum that allows these kinds of threads is actually something that has been debated by the admins/moderators. I personally like the fact that we have these kinds of threads here - I think alot of readers have learned alot and were given a chance to rethink their views. Sorry if you don't like it but those are the rules and views of the administrators, moderators and many of the members of HybridZ.

I don't get around on many different forums, so I'd like to ask you all something: Have you EVER seen a thread where so much interesting information was posted? I've learned alot - which is sad to say. I didn't realize I was that ignorant of the stuff I've been reading about here. Personally, I hope that this thread or others like it continue at HybridZ. I used to think this place was just good for gearhead info. Well, I've learned more about politics and US history in the past 14 pages than I care to admit! Yeah, things have gotten a bit personal from time to time, but time will heal those scant wounds. I'm glad Mike stepped in, because the tone DID bother me a bit. If nothing else it was a warning to keep it civil and most importantly factually based and less emotional. If Mike could have given you a scolding glance, that might have been all that was said.

I'm with Mike. Internal balance is a good thing mechanically for the engine and also makes life alot easier and cheaper when fitting harmonic dampers and flywheels to the engine. External balance harmonic dampers under 8" can be found, but not as cheaply as for the internal balance setup. An 8" harmonic damper won't fit the Z with the JTR setback mounts - it hits the steering rack. BTW, that ebay listing has forged stuff that is overkill for your application. Not bad to go overkill in general except that you end up with heavier rods and crank, and that increases rotating and reciprocating weight, unnecessarily adding to bearing and crank loads. I'd buy the lightweight internal balance stuff with 6" rods. The 3.75" stroke causes additional cylinder wear with the stock 400 5.565" rod. The 5.7" rod helps some, but the 6" rod brings the thrust angles into the same range as a 350 with 5.7" rods. This can also make the engine quieter (less piston slap). 6" rods allow for lighter pistons also. The increased rod weight is easily offset by the lighter piston weight. So the 6" rod helps get the rod/stroke ratio in a better range for breathing at higher rpm (not enough to matter probably), helps with cylinder wear and piston slap, and makes for an easier balance job and lighter reciprocating assembly. Pete

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2490011598

Kevin, do you see centuries-long evil conspiracies at work everywhere you can't see all the facts? It certainly seems so. There are other motives for a gag order than to cover up some kind of evil conspiracy. On what facts do you base your ascertion that "our way of life is about to get really ugly." ? And how can you say "This is the slippery slope to which we are not going to return from." ? The sky is not falling the last time I looked. It's not 1984 or "Brazil" or even close to a communist Russia or China secret-police state. And Russia slid back UP the hill. For someone who says they won't be able to make up their mind before they have all the facts, you sure do jump to (the EVIL) conclusions. FWIW, if anyone gets a chance to go see the SPY musem in DC, do it soon. They have an exhibit on "Terrorism - the enemy within" I learned (why don't they teach this stuff in school!) about the prpblems with terrorists that we've had in this country since before the revolutionary war, how we've taken away civil liberties and given them back many times. We're nowhere close to where we got back in the early and mid 1900s when we had the Sedition Act, etc. I came away from that exhibit with a few lessons: 1- terrorists are those that are too lazy and cowardly to try to change the system by peaceful means. I knew this already, but it was reinforced. 2- In times of siege (like we are in now and have been for 10 years - thanks Kevin) the US government has seen fit to take away some civil liberties in order to protect teh country from the enemy. But in short order, the great (mostly) FREE society we live in forces the laws to be revised to restore and usually improve the civil liberties situation. The advent of the ACLU is one example. As for Mike's two ways to deal with the Middle East, I say continue to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan to better than when we got there and then leave the Middle East (ALL OF IT) to it's own devices. That's the only way the anti-western hate will have a chance of ending. Take away the hate monger's amunition and they'll not have the fodder for their terrorist cannons against us.

Actually, I-beam 6" capscrew rods from Scat would be PLENTY good enough and they are around $240. I totally agree this is better than having ANYTHING done to the PM rods. If you've gotten the books on Grumpyvette's list, you have all you need. But don't let that limit you. Look at Grumpyvette's threads here and on Chevytalk.com, look at the tech articles at the Car Craft, Chevy High Performance, Hot Rod, and Popular Hotrodding magazine sites, etc.

It's ALWAYS been that way because it HAS to be. There's NO WAY the government should give the public FULL DISCLOSURE of classified information. Not only would the information now be known to all but the METHODS AND SOURCES of classified information gathering, etc. would then be compromised, meaning we have no new classified info of that type/method coming in to have an upper hand or at least a fighting chance. Wars are usually won on who knows what better/sooner. Asking the government for full disclosure means that you're asking them to lose any conflict in the future. Sorry, Kevin, your perception will have to be incomplete - not that if you even had full disclosure would it be complete.

No I'm not kidding unfortunately. Some of my closest friends have gone absolutely nuts in the past few years and now believe that Bush is out to get us, to start WWIII, to turn the US into a police state, etc etc etc. I'm not one of these people, but I know quite a few of them and they were what I would consider rational only a few years ago. Don't fool yourself by thinking that no one believes Michael Moore's BS or no one questions Bush's motives. To me, that's the really scary part. That people who you thought were rational have taken this conspiracy theory and swallowed it as truth. But tell them not to worry, everyone in Washington DC is in the Illuminati (chuckle). There's no getting away from the rampant, organized conspirators... We're all doomed - the sky is falling.... Yeah, right. The people of this fine country would absolutely burn DC to the ground in a day flat the minute they thought the US was REALLY becoming a police state - it wouldn't be just some militants in the mid west forests either. Personally, I'd find a new set of people to hang out with if my friends were all taking this Bush is the Devil stuff SERIOUSLY.

I wish someone else would give Bill another point of view on this stuff! I certainly don't have the last word on this. Grumpyvette? Others? Below are some machine shop prices I found quickly on the Internet. Realize that prizes for machine work vary greatly depending on where you are and the quality of the work' date=' reputation, etc. I found these prices at http://www.rpmrons.com/ - Check crank bores for alignment (not sure- should be very cheap) - If not straight, have it align honed. Around $85 -Zero Decked (remove approximately 0.017" to get to a 9.008" crank centerline to deck distance) This is usually $125 to $150. The reason I say 9.008" is that the KB135 piston has a compression height of 1.433". That with a 5.7" rod and teh 3.75" stroke gives you a zero deck height (crank CL to block deck) of (3.75/2 + 5.7 + 1.433) = 9.008" - Bored and then Honed with torque plates installed. Around $160 (Bring them the Pistons so they can hone each cylinder to size for each piston) - Clearance for Stroker Crank (not sure - probably less than $100 though) - Vat the block. Around $35-$50. - Install new cam bearings and freeze plugs. Probably around $50. That's probably near the minimun to do. Grumpyvette SURELY has a thread on here about what SHOULD be done. Alot of stuff you can do yourself, of course, like smoting the oil passage entry in the rear main cap, clean out the threads in the block, etc. You know all that, from what I can tell. Yeah, You could assume that the new crank has the standard 2.100" journal and is within a few thousandths of that and buy some rod bearings and measure the installed rod bearing dimensions versus the standard 2.100" journal. Also check the dimensions of the rod big end to see if it's up to snuff (correct parting line versus verticle dimensions for crush and to keep the bearing from skimming oil off with it's edge at the parting line). Check the side clearance too, but you'd have to compare the measured rod big end width against the standard measurement. Of course, you'd be assuming that the crank would come with an acceptable cheek-to-cheek measurement on the throws. Basically, if anything is out of wack, you're going to need to go to aftermarket non-cracked rods, like the Scat ones, since resizing the PM rods as far as I know is not possible or practical. Plus, if you go to the 12-point capscrew I-beam rods, you save yourself trouble (or $ if you have the machine shop do it) with cam/rod clearancing and block clearancing. All things considered, I'd say toss the PM rods and get the SCAT rods, to save trouble and have a nicer rod. If that's the plan, then you can consider going to a 6" rod and matching piston. That'll help with rod/stroke ratio, but more importantly the piston side loading is better with the longer rod. The piston /rod is also lighter with the 6" setup. With these rods being at $200/set, I'd seriously consider it - unless you're on a really tight budget and the PM rods measure out o.k. and you just want to grind the bolt head/rod for cam clearance and save the $200. If you do go to the 6" rod, then Scat also has a 6" rod 383 crank, and you can then start considering buying a balanced rotating assembly and maybe saving money overall by not having to pay for balancing separately... Need to have the crank and rods ballanced?? $$?? If you're piecing crank, rods, pistons together yourself, definitely. Typically that costs about $150-$200 If you buy a balanced rotating assembly, you can depend on the vendor or manufacturer doing it right, or have it checked, but there goes your savings. If you buy the rotatiing assembly, make sure you follow their specs on what flywheel/flexplate and harmonic damper. Better yet buy a rotating assembly that has those parts included if you need them anyway. Or if you go to 6" rods: Pistons KB HYPEREUTECTIC UEM-KB164030-8 http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=UEM-KB164030-8&N=120+4294925232+4294922410+308250 Note that the compression height is listed as 1.130. That means that for a zero deck, you'd have a stack up of (3.75/2)+(6.000")+(1.130") = 9.005, so you'd want the block decked to 9.005" crank CL to deck. The difference between the 08-503-8 and the other two cams is that it's listed as being for computer controlled GM cars (the 112 lobe center gives less overlap, allowing it to idle better with the computer.) The 08-423-8 and 12-423-8 are ground on a 110 deg lobe separation angle. "12-" at the beginning of the part number means it's for the Pre-87 blocks. "08-" at the beginning means it's for (your) 87+ block. As for Kits, Comp has kits with varying additional parts. Depends on the cam. Be careful about the valve springs. The Vortec head need a spring set with an inner diameter no less than 0.900", unless the boss is machined. So you'll probably have to figure on having that done as well. Typically the spring seat ID is taken out to 1.440 from the stock 1.250. See that first article below (and the index1-4 pages below it) for more info on this. BTW, don't discount Crane, Cam Motion, etc. for cam choices. Check out these: Spring mods, etc.: http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/ http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/index1.html http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/index2.html http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/index3.html http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/index4.html http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0208_vort/index.html Helgesen on Porting Vortec heads: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0306_vort/index.html http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0306_vort/index1.html http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0306_vort/index2.html I'd be going for the latest Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb. I've just had my fill of holley type carbs I guess. But the Road Demon 750 would get you there. If you're going for a Holley type, I'd be looking at the 750cdm Speed Demon. If it's a manual trans setup, don't even bother with a vac sec setup - BTDT. Demon has an electric choke kit that you can put on the mechanical secondary carb: PN 421440 DEMON ELECTRIC CHOKE KIT The LED units are nice, but some have had problems with longevity. Ask around. As far as the coil goes, use whatever matches the electronics in the distributor - very important to match those. Crane has a neat adjustable digital distributor out that comes in small or large cap for the SBC (and people wonder why we play with these old pushrod boat anchors - new cool parts come out all the time!) : http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newProduct&id=1 http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=1000-1501&lvl=4&prt=127 http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=CRN-1000-1501&x=0&y=0 That's pretty impressive for $320. I like the MSD 8.5mm wires. But others are good. http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=eproduct.asp&N=120+4294925143+4294925136+301082 I know what you mean!

Kevin, after digging a bit, I answered my own question on what the motives for the Bush II administrations reason for going into Afghanistan and Iraq are. I don't have the URLs handy, but googling a bit I read a few left wing articles (anytime I see the word neo-conservative used to describe the Bush II administration, I know I'm listening to a leftist). Supposedly Cheney is the anti-christ and had deals on oil pipe lines in Afghanistan. US troops being there made it easy to make sure that happened, or something like that. Supposedly, Cheney had control of the armed forces on 9/11 and made things happen to his benefit. If I find the URL where I read that, I'll post it. This smacks of super-evil at the highest coordination. That's the kind of conspiracy theory stuff that makes me wonder about the lunacy of the people who write those articles. Sure, Evil is out there. But the high levels of coordination purported to exist within the Illuminati, the Bush Adminstration, etc., that leaves me questioning the plausibility of the theory. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any counter articles on the Zogby poll while I was looking. But I made my own. Near an election, people will go to great lengths to discredit the opposition. It seems the hate between the dems and the bush administration is about as bad as it can get. I'll wait for the history lesson from someone here to tell me that this is nothing, it's been worse. I tell you what, one conspiracy theory that makes sense to me, mostly because it is simple and would involve only a few people, is the one where the republican party planted the fake letters from the reservist doctor about Bush's performance or lack of it. And it makes me laugh to see Dan Rather get smeared with it. He's part of the dishonest leftist media that has brought such shame to the industry and it's good to see him get burned. Would I admonish the republicans for doing it? Yes. They needn't stoop that low - just attack Kerry on the issues over and over with rational thought and they can win the election. But they seem to lower themselves to bashing the candidate on silly stuff about Nam. But hardly as much as the Dems seem to be doing it to Bush. Viet Nam service has no bearing on what the issues are today. Back to the Patriot Act - I am beginning to do some research on just how it's effected the rights of the US citizen beyond the laws we had before it. From what I've seen on a quick overview is NOT MUCH. Like others have said, the mechanisms to get info on people by the government have been in place for quite some time. They need to be updated as new forms of communication are developed. Also, to keep groups like the ACLU from doing everything in it's power to throw up road blocks to investigation and prosecution of people in the name of protecting their rights, congress needs to make sure that the executive branch does not slowly get it's hands tied to the point that no one can be investigated. The existance of the ACLU is important to the US. But it must be checked against what must be allowed as far as investigatory and prosecutory abilities of law enforcement. Otherwise we will have mayhem and anarchy. Surely someone can sight a futuristic novel that takes the opposite view from 1984 to illustrate what might happen . That gets to my point on a country with free open borders and the most extensive privacy rights laws known (the US). In the age where the US is a terrorist target, how can we go on the way we have in the past with hundreds of thousands of people illegally entering the country every year, and not being able to investigate SUSPECTED enemies. I agree that it's a slippery slope toward 1984, etc. to allow the government to have more power to investigate people, but without that ablility I think we would write the death certificates of many US citizens. This is war on very unconventional terms. New ways of dealing with the combatants and their helpers need to be brought to bear. Whether we need the Patriot Act to do that is the question, just as the assault weapons ban issue is - don't the laws we have on the books give the executive branch and state/local authorities to keep us safe? Maybe new interrpetations of the existing laws is all that is needed. But that takes precious time. Personally I think the assault weapons ban is a joke and needs to be left dead as it is now. The Patriot Act - I'm not sure. There are those that have made prosecuting and making a case against criminals and combatants near impossible in the name of "upholding their rights". I think we've maybe swung too far in that respect. I for one don't think that the beautiful America we live in should be a place where enemy combatants can roam mostly unchecked due to privacy laws enacted when we were worried about conventional warfare, and the way they have been interpretted to this point. The cell and satellite phone and the Internet are tools that these laws did not envision when first enacted. I've not researched it, but hopefully the privacy laws have been updated to take new technologies into consideration. But I also realize that spies and enemy combatants working covertly in the US is nothing new. But in conventional war times the number of those individuals was small and mostly their mission was to gather information, not kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Well, that's my belief anyway. I'm ready to be educated otherwise.

You're welcome. I might have to revise my advice though - 8.35:1 dynamic compression on iron heads, even vortecs, is probably too much. My mind got clouded since Glenn and I designed the Vette engine with the Fastburn Aluminum heads and we ended up with around 10.5:1 compression (static) and a similar dynamic compression ratio. So the Zero-decked 383 with the 18cc dish pistons is probably the safer bet. Pete