bjhines

There are more problems than just relay current capability to deal with. You need surge/spark supression to make the relays last a long time regardless of their current ratings. The 3-wire, Dual-speed fans make that much more challenging than using a PAIR of 2-wire fan motors. I am not even going to get into methods of suppression until we are all on the same page here. I attempted to use a PWM DC speed controller on the low speed wire and switch over to a relay for the high speed wire. This turns out to be complicated because the MOSFETs would fry when switched over at full power. Besides the commonly availble DC controllers all switch the ground side(current sink). That is very frustrating considering the ground is common on the Ford fan.

MILES, Don't take this personally. I like the fit you get with the shroud, but that is not going to do it with summer weather in the SE USA on a V8 powered car. You Left Coast guys must not see 98 degrees with 98% humidity much. WOW!!!! $300 for that POS flexalite. It only uses 255 WATTS. That is like the LOW SPEED wire for the FORD fan. LOW speed is not enough to cool my V8 rig on 90 hot days. That fan is nothing like modern factory cooling fans. Even small cars have ~500 WATTS of cooling fan power with dual fans running. Even the Flex-a-lite "MONSTER" dual fans only draw 28 amps and they cost $550 with shroud. That is 4ucking rediculous $$$ and noodle armed weak. Flex-a-lite is total BS and WAY! overpriced. Their crappy little relay with temp probe is $100 for crissake. I call complete bullshavit on all the advertised ratings for fan CFMS. You want flow you need power. The CFM flow AND ultimately the current draw depend on airflow through the fan. Hoov100, Your AMPerage numbers are off. I don't know how you tested, but I did this properly and I used perfectly capable relays for my rig. I would definitely use DUAL FANS the next time around. I got a Dorman Taurus fan for ~$150. I found one at the JY for $40. I remember why I went that route now. I tested current through the FORD TAURUS fan on both speeds. I placed the fan on the radiator that it is to be used with to make the tests. Low speed draws 16.5 Amps @14.2V (235 WATTS) High speed draws 38.7 Amps @ 14.2V (550 WATTS) Here is my set up with the FORD fan ...

Hmmmmmm. Ignition runs through the Tach. You might re-seat your tach wires and see if that fixes the problem. The wire on COIL+ is directly connected to the TACH. The actual IGNITION+ runs to the ballast resistor. The green wire on the resistor runs back to the TACH and out the other side to the coil+. The factory uses a hot coil to allow a strong spark for starting and then the ballast resistor dials it back when running. Your new coil may not need a ballast resistor. In that case you want to connect the two ballast wires/bypass the resistor. The most basic view of the ignition wires is here. That is 44 FEET of wire in total. ...

I remember the buzzer when you open the doors with the key in... or was that my 1970s Toyota.

try this link. It has the exact location of every electrical component for the 260Z. Thank you Atlanticz in Cali. http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/wiringdiagrams/74_260Z_wiring.pdf

^^^^ rayaapp2, I know exactly why no one will buy your pans. You want more than list price. The thread does not really cover the costs of restoring the interior like the title says. I was interested in more info. Those are basic parts. I know that many of the small parts are going to highly inflate that cost.

I have the FORD 2 speed fan in my build. It is one hell of a powerful fan. The problem is, it draws as much power as the ENTIRE 240Z electrical system. It will consume normal relays with arcing and heat. You will have to invest in specialty, high-power relays that are not available in local stores. I have used the typical 14" aftermarket fans in several flavors on other cars and found that they are not powerful enough to cool the car in gridlock on a hot day. I used the quick and easy mounting method for these fans and was disappointed with the way they fit. If I were to do it again. I would use a DUAL FAN system with a fan shroud that sealed to the back of the radiator. Two independent fan motors that draw ~20 amps each are much easier and cheaper to operate than the 3-wire/2 speed FORD fan.

I think the diagram was never intended to be a true representation. It is just enough to do a little troubleshooting and that's it. There are DOZENS of mistakes in that diagram. There are a lot of things entirely left out as well. I purchased a laminated, large format, color print, wiring diagram that someone did on Ebay. That was a complete waste of money. The person who did that only copied the factory ~representation~, along with all of it's mistakes. I sat down one weekend to make a TRUE TO LIFE wiring diagram. I had unwrapped 2 harnesses from 1972 and 1973. I got part way into the project and decided that I would never gain anything from it for the time it would take. I really cannot fix the original diagram, I would need to start from scratch and completely reorganize the entire layout.

The published wiring diagram is not exactly what they did in practice. The fuse panel is all wrong. There are 2 large white(one with a red stripe) wires behind your gauge. The shunt is part of that gauge. Remove the gauge. Connect the 2 large existing wires behind the gauge. Unwrap your harness near the firewall and out to the alternator, you will find those 2 wires. Attach a junction block to your firewall where you have plenty of room. Make a new alternator wire, make a new BATT wire, Connect all 4 to the junction block Use fusable links, properly terminate connections, and make sure you add any power circuits at the junction block. There are many unused wires that run to the external regulator plug. You need to get rid of those. Make new wires according to your alternator.

KamikaZeS30.... If you have a 240Z then THERE IS NO WIRE GOING FROM THE ALT TO THE BATT without passing through the AMP gauge and ALL of the factory wiring FIRST. If you connect stereo equipment or big fans to your BATT +post then you are going through every inch of factory wire, every cruddy splice, and the AMP gauge shunt, BEFORE you get power to your ADD-ON stereo/fans/etc. DO NOT CONNECT stuff to your BATT+ post until you eliminate the AMP gauge and bond the factory power wires together in the 2 places I describe. If you have a 240Z; The factory decided to run a power-wire from the alternator to the AMP gauge(in the dash). They also ran a power-wire from the BATT(starter power terminal) to the AMP gauge(in the dash). The fuse panel is spliced into those 2 wires near the AMP gauge(a third is off BATT and the rest is off ALT). The factory system is ~roughly~ a star distribution junction just like I describe doing at the firewall. The problem is that you cannot add anything to the factory junction/star/distribution point because it is buried in the harness near the AMP gauge. additionally the factory junctions are just crimps with NO SOLDER, AT ALL, ANYWHERE. Additionally the factory wires are small by todays standards and unsuitable for big powerful systems.

There are 2 main power wires in the harness. One is from the Battery(from the starter terminal) and one is from the Alternator(larger alternator terminal). The AMP gauge goes between them. The entire system can be fed through either wire, but the AMP gauge shunt is between the 2 main wires. This was to indicate current draw from the BATT or ALT. If the needle swings positive it means that most of the current is comming from the alternator. If it swings negative then most of the current is comming from the battery. The AMP gauge cannot read higher than stock current loads and it really does not indicate the state of operation as well as a volt meter. If you add circuits to the Batt side(battery + terminal) then you are passing through a 8-10ft of wire and the ammeter shunt(reducing performance). If you add circuits to the ALT side then you won't normally see the extra current on the gauge(it will actually show the additional current load when the engine is off and the BATT supplies the current). You don't want the ammeter shunt burning and the gauge cannot read that high anyway. In fact, there is an even weirder reason not to use the AMP gauge. The factory chose to wire a third of the fuse panel to BATT side and the rest of the fuse panel is wired to ALT side. They made some choices in what circuits they intend to actually read on the gauge. The gauge will never show the TOTAL amperage through the system. It is not actually telling you anything but a general-approximation-of-an-idea of the state of the systems. You can remove the AMP gauge and connect the two heavy gauge wires using a brass bolt and nut(insulate the connection when done). Then connect the Factory BATT and ALT wires near the firewall and make all power-circuit branches at the firewall distribution block. ie. New ALT wire(with fuseable link 6g), New BATT wire(with fuseable link 6g), Factory ALT wire(w/fuseable link 10g), Factory BATT wire(w/FL 10g), Additional power wires(fused individually), etc(fused ind). In summary: If you connected your stereo to the heavy gauge battery cable/lug with 4 gauge wire(thinking this was good)... then you actually supply current from the alternator, through the wire harness ALT wire(8g), through the AMP shunt, through the BATT wire(8g) then through your 4g oxygen free super wire. You end up running through 8-10 feet of smaller wire before you get to your heavy gauge stereo powere wire. Hooking new stuff up to the battery lugs is next to worthless because you actually use MORE of the smaller gauge wire than any of the factory systems ever did.

The voltage will stay constant and will never overcharge the battery. Current has absolutely nothing to do with it. Power production on load demand is a confusing idea for non-electrical minded people. I think you may have misunderstood the fact that alternators produce 14 volts. The amount of current that will flow depends on the resistance the alternator sees. When the resistance is very low, a large current will flow through the system. When the resistance is high a tiny amount of current will flow. The voltage remains the same(14V) so each device will only draw the amount of current it was designed to use(based on it's resistance). When you operate too many devices and current demand is higher than the alternator can produce, then the voltage will begin to drop until current output is within the limitations of the alternator. This will cause all of the devices in the entire car to operate at a reduced voltage and they will simply draw less current as the voltage drops. When you operate an alternator beyond it's limits it will get very hot. The diodes in the regulator have a fair amount of internal resistance. As the current demands go up they get hotter faster. Eventually they will fail. When they fail they often short internally and will drain the battery even with the car off.

Hmmmm.... If you are going to add things that draw more current then you will run separate power distribution wires and fuse blocks. I have the original S30 harness in my car, but it only operates relays, dash lights, corner markers, tail lights, guages and low current electronics. With everything on; I ~could~ draw more than 100 Amps from the alternator, but the S30 harness never sees more than 10 AMPS TOTAL through it. Even the starter solenoid uses a relay. Have you looked at the tiny wires in the 240Z harnesses? The 8 guage wires leading to the Ammeter are as big as they get anywhere in the harness. You can easily find the maximum current ratings for 12 volt systems in charts all over the web. http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm If you look at 8 guage wire then you will find the maximum safe rating when wrapped in a bundle is 73 AMPS(That is the absolute limit for FIRES!!!) If you want low-loss power transmission then you will be using 1/3(ONE THIRD) that AMPERAGE. Wire choices have a lot more considerations than those. You need to consider; length voltage drop limitations duty cycle(you can get away with ~relatively~ small starter and main battery cables because they are short and only pass high current for short periods) proximity to other wires(bundling makes them get hotter faster, and starter/batt cables are usually kept away from other wires for that reason). temperature characteristics of the insulator(heat conductivity, softening temps, etc) I found dozens of splice connections in my S30 harness. They get damp and corrode over the years. When they become resistive then they get hot. This throws an entirely new set of problems into the mix. You must also consider the types of terminations and their individual characteristics.

jimminny christmas the thing hangs up when I try to post.... double post on hangup.

HOLY crap.. I must drive like an old lady. When I was 18, I tapped a minivan when she stopped suddenly to make a last minute turn with no room and no blinkers or any kind of warning. I was following too closely and that was the last time I ever tailgated. The only other time I have ever even scratched paint on any car was a tirewall due to squishy brakes at VIR. That was also the LAST TIME I ever used drum brakes on track. I have avoided countless wrecks because I look at it as "everyone else is TRYING to kill me out there". If I have any kind of incident with a vehicle I completely rethink what I am doing and address the problems immediately. Tree-limbs have done FAAARRRRR more damage to my vehicles than any other possible event. My poor BMW M3 hashalf a dozen dents from the damn trees. You can retrofit a modern brake system with 4 wheel antilock brakes. Traction control and stability control are great in the wet or slippery conditions. You could also retrofit an airbag by replacing the steering column and adding the appropriate sensors, seating, A-pillar and knee bolsters.

If you want a slightly more modern/safer car. Then get into a BMW E36 325i or an earlier BMW E30. That have a lot of safety features that the Datsuns did not.

I used a CS130D alternator. It has a small frame and dual internal cooling fans. It has a common metric shaft thread. It has a modern PWM Pulse Width Modulated field circuit. It has soft start, overheat protection, and was designed to operate computer controlled vehicle systems(think digital CD ignition). You can use the typical 3 wire hookups. http://oljeep.com/gw/alt/edge_Alternator_Theory.html#Section_3

If you look at high-performance, high-budget equipment you will see a whole new level of heat exchanger efficiency and complexity. Automotive radiators were meant to be stamped out cheaply. We actually get great performance for the money. You can verify with a fast responding thermometer in several areas. I am sure the water flow will vary with engine speed, thermostat opening, etc. You really want to know how the radiator performs at road speed and stopped with the fan running. The real deal would be for someone to rent an IR camera and run the car on the road while recording. You would need to spec a wide angle lense to facilitate mounting the camera close to the front clip. I say go for it!!! We have already found that excess airflow into the engine bay will adversely affect radiator performance. You have the whole aero thing to consider there.

Airbox? Funny you ask. That is the current project on the bench. I have several FRP parts that need fabrication. Right now I have blocked off the openings. I'll post the fabrication process. I modified the bottom of the hood to aid mating the airbox and the hood together. There are considerations to be made for engine movement and proper retention of the aircleaner itself.

hehehehehehe.... For sale... I ran out of room for the $40,000. The hood is a short-run production piece from a HybridZ member, I'll have to look it up unless anyone remembers where the link is. Damn nice piece I must say. I am using it as a cold air induction scoop(with an airbox on the carby) and it provides plenty of room for a taller air cleaner with the V8 conversion. The side vents are from a 1980s Trans AM. They are a good fit and also nice cast aluminum pieces.

Thanks for the offer JT. Sunday is my first opportunity to mess with it again. I am going to recheck float levels and get back on it Sunday if the weather permits.

I am pretty good around a skid-pad. I should be able to go around and around endlessly; even on that dry, small, leafy circle, but the engine just won't put out consistent power. It runs great going straight up the hill, and it does not starve during hard, downhill braking. It mis-behaves the moment I start turning hard. I am thinking float bowl slosh because the fuel pressure is steady the whole time. Oddly enough, it seems to still have some starvation even after resting a few seconds. It does not recover as quickly as it begins to starve. I didn't include a lot of video of constant turning around and around. That very-last part kind-of shows that with constant second gear turning; the engine bucks and starves. It seems to do it in both directions. The car is sprung stiff so you don't see a lot of bucking and hopping, and I am quick to get the clutch in before it starts really bucking and damages the driveline. I am going to reset/raise float levels next Sunday and try this again. I have a Holley 4150 #4777, 650 CFM, plastic floats, bowl whistles(anti slosh vents).

I have finally been able to play with the new track car a little this Holiday. I couldn't have it ready for an actual track event yet, But I have been able to kill a few gremlins by registering it for street use. I did pretty well getting the systems functioning and set up the first time. It works beautifully for normal street driving. I had an issue with spark plug boots burning on the shorty headers. The cooling fan circuits had to be changed to accomodate the high speed setting on the Ford 2-speed fan. Brake bias was easy enough to sort out. I have the Beta-Motorsports dual master cylinder mechanism and the Arizona-Z-car Wilwood brakes. I had to get rid of my Wink 5-panel Mirror because it was too big and too close. I used a windsheild mounted version instead. Suspension will need a little more tuning to get it right. Weight bias is off and ride height is going to be changed. My first real problem only shows up on freeway ramps at high speed. It is actually hard to induce on a ramp becuase it is hard to stay in the throttle long enough and with enough cornering forces to be safe in traffic. But it definitely stalls and sputters under hard cornering forces. I found a nice circle with a fairly steep hill nearby to do some torture testing. I raised the float levels with a quarter turn of the adjusters, but I did not take out the bowl plugs with the engine hot. I know I initially set them where they would not overflow from the bowl plug holes while idling at 1100 RPM. It seemed low at the time, evidently it is. Anyway, Here is the video. ...

I finally got out in the sun and took some more pics. I tried a few camera settings. This one seems to emphasize the green in the green. ...

Pparaska used 1993 Toyota Tercel mirrors. You can get them in electric and manual-inside adjust. They are less than the cost of the MSA mirrors and they look better.