tnt0823 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hi all, my first post So I felt in love with the Z recently and been "studying" this forums for a while. Now felling ready, i has been looking around for a S30 with decent price. I stumbled across this 78 280z which was stored away for like 12 yrs. After check out the car i found this list of issues, which are common for a neglected Z: engine not running; broken front and side windows; rust problem: pass dogleg - rusted thru; fender - small holes, doors and rear quarter panel bubbling; Frame rails rusted, dented but not beyond repaired; floors are solid also (might have small holes as i couldnt get down and under the car); interior is completed just old (cracked dash). According to the owner, the car had involve in a rear end accident and was repaired back in 80s. Can i run Carfax on first gen Z? In summary, the biggest problems with this Z (well all Zs) as i see are rust and neglected. So the million dollar question is how much would you guys pay for this Z? the owner want about $500. or i should hold out on a better car. Your inputs are appreciated. Edited June 23, 2011 by tnt0823 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Buy the MOST/ BEST car you can afford. When I look at a Z for my own personal use, I would rather buy a clean bare Z shell for $500 than a complete car that has numerous rusted areas. I don't do bodywork, so I put A LOT of weight on rust free. A pretty badly rusted Z shell, can be worth anywhere from -$2000 to -$5000 or more, in my world. (Negative value is BAD) Edited June 23, 2011 by cygnusx1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt0823 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Buy the MOST/ BEST car you can afford. When I look at a Z for my own personal use, I would rather buy a clean bare Z shell for $500 than a complete car that has numerous rusted areas. I don't do bodywork, so I put A LOT of weight on rust free. A pretty badly rusted Z shell, can be worth anywhere from -$2000 to -$5000 or more, in my world. (Negative value is BAD) Thanks for the input. I'll be all over a $500 rust free shell, however the trouble is finding one for that price . I estimate the body work to be 2k-3k, learning and doing it myself. So one for holding for a better car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Free with the offer to come with a trailer and get it out of the yard always works to get me interested in a car that doesn't run, has rust holes, and 'broken' windows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatsunZman04 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Depends, if the owner has a clear title. Theres obviously parts on the car that could be worth up 500 dollars cash but I would look for one that is not to rusted out. You will spend close to 500 buying a windshield and rubber molding for the car.I would say 200 and buy you another decent car and use that one for parts. Just my opinion, older z's in that condition are dime a dozen on craigslist. Good luck on your build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt0823 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) hey guys, look like that car is not worth buying for 500. I also found this one : http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/2456527391.html gonna check it out tomorrow. how much does it worth to you guys assume that all descriptions are true from owner? Edited June 23, 2011 by tnt0823 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well We've all been through this when looking for a decens Z to work on. First I will say that a Z or any car is worth what someone will pay for it. As DatsunZMan04 alluded, you can buy a lesser condition car and pay a LOT of cash to return it to a workable condition before any restoration occures. The cost of just sealing the broken windows on that first car may not be quite as high as he said, but it depends on where you are/availibility of parts. The main thing to look for is RUST. When you're finding a Car, find one with as little rust as possible and that will be the best base for you to build on. everything else you can find on Ebay or junk yards or new from MSA BlackDragon, Datsun restore. If you have a rusted out car, it's still worth something in parts since many of the original parts just aren't easilly availible. (not that people aren't parting cars out.) So that $500 car might be worth buying if you have space and time to part it out. But for restoration, you should keep looking. The 240Z, that one doesn't look bad, and if it's in decent shape as far as non rusty, it would certainly be worth the $2500. Some things you need to consider before buying the car aside from Rust condition: You really need to look at what you're planning on doing with the car. If you're planning on heavy modifications, that you should be looking for a later 280Z since it's built a little stronger as far as frame rails and such. If you're just looking at light mods and a daily driver than any year would work even the earlier 240Z's. This is just for the idea that the later 280Z's are generally a lot cheaper to buy than the much rarer 240z's. Now you can spend a ton of $ customizing or even repairing an S30 depending on how handy you are. If you're not afraid of getting dirty, then I'd recommend you doing most of the repairs yourself. Engine work on these is very easy compared to more modern cars. It would also help you know your car. There's nothing like finishing a rebuild and starting it the first time knowing that "YOU did it!" Of course if you go to buy it, Offer lower than asking price, but know that if it's decent it's worth what they're asking. In anycase, if you buy it, it's worth as least what you paid, but not that you could necessarily sell it for that. One set of S30's to consider are the first 6000 S30's, the Series I cars, They're a little different than the rest of the S30's only in a few places, but since they've got that designation, they're sought out a little more thus holding a slightly higher value. But even then it's only worth what someone will pay for it. Once you buy an S30, don't EVER expect to sell it for what you bought it for or especially don't expect to recoup any money that you paid into it for repairs or modifications. You're buying an S30 because YOU LIKE THEM, not because they're reliable or somehow magically going to make you popular. They are sporty, but most are more fickle than a 16 yr old girl. It will be YOUR car, so don't expect anyone to fix it for you. They are 35 years old so 90% of what you'll find will need work. We are here to offer advice and help YOU work through issues. Most of the troubles you find will be age related, bad rubber, corroded wiring, rust etc. But with a bit of TLC they're pretty reliable. MPG is decent since they were built during the 70's gas crunch. Now I know you've read a bit, but read More, read More, Read more! There's tons of information on here and elsewhere about the Z's. Almost anything you can experience on the Z's has been seen before, and likely been documented. I'd recommend that you download and read through the FSM and Haynes manuals. There's a lot of detail that will help you learn to maintain your Z car. Personally I hope you get a Z car, we need to keep these cars on the road. Oh All the S30's qualify for Antique car insurance which is often much cheaper than standard car insurance, so check into that and Agreed upon value insurance. Lastly, when you do get a Z. keep in mind that we LOVE pictures, so be sure to jump on here and post up picts of your new baby and let us know your plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt0823 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 @ Pharaohabq: Thanks for your extensive input. If i have the luck to acquire the right Z, my plan will be restore it back to the way it should be and get the stock engine running. It will be my weekend car as i have a daily driver already. I do have plan for a engine swap down the road, but until i got a real job, it not gonna happen . Anyhow, with that mind set, i really want to find a clean 280z as it have the R200 and of course longer, stiffer rails. Also the 280z have fuel injection which im more familiar with. Oh well, i will post back how things turn out tomorrow. I might buy both and swap parts from the 280 to the 240 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 That '72 looks like a great start if it's like he says. Wish it was around when I was in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducer Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Hi all, my first post So I felt in love with the Z recently and been "studying" this forums for a while. Now felling ready, i has been looking around for a S30 with decent price. I stumbled across this 78 280z which was stored away for like 12 yrs. After check out the car i found this list of issues, which are common for a neglected Z: engine not running; broken front and side windows; rust problem: pass dogleg - rusted thru; fender - small holes, doors and rear quarter panel bubbling; Frame rails rusted, dented but not beyond repaired; floors are solid also (might have small holes as i couldnt get down and under the car); interior is completed just old (cracked dash). According to the owner, the car had involve in a rear end accident and was repaired back in 80s. Can i run Carfax on first gen Z? In summary, the biggest problems with this Z (well all Zs) as i see are rust and neglected. So the million dollar question is how much would you guys pay for this Z? the owner want about $500. or i should hold out on a better car. Your inputs are appreciated. I paid $700 for my 74 260z and it came with: 1. Clean Title 2. Rusted floor and a few rusts on the Quarter panel 3. JDM/Euro amber tail lights 4. New Kyosan fuel pump 5. L26 that is original and ran. Im removing the sound deadening now, and dealing with the rust, but that's easy. Get the car for cheap. $2500 is a lot being that $500-800 Z with a little money and work can make it the way you want. However, if you don't have much time, then you should buy a running car for $2500-3500. In california where I am, it's hard to find any of these Z's for under $2000. Even people want $1000 for the shell. I was lucky to get my car which the frame is quite straight and came with goodies well worth it. People want a lot for Pre 1975 Z's because we have emiisions (smog testing) so cars after 1975 must do bi-annual smog tests, thus pre 1975 is valuable. Edited June 28, 2011 by Ducer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Ducer, the Z market where we are is absolutely nothing like the market where you are. A $700 Z here would be a parts car, or a half-complete rust bucket. Nearly every car here has rust, and as a result, there's a price premium for one without. And dealing with rust I wouldn't consider easy. Not what I've got, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I bought my 74 260Z for $1000. It needs floor pans (in progress now) but the 1/4 panels and such are all pretty solid, as well as the frame rails front and rear of the floor where the seats are...with it I got a complete, cleanish, interior, a set of italian-made triple webers, MSA header, Mallory distributor, and a siezed up L26...but it only has 40,000 original miles and has been in a garage for a long long long long time. Parked since 1979. Does it need rust fixed? Yes...was it worth all of $1000 to me, worthy of being fixed? Hell yes! Floor pans look like this after wire brushing. Both sides are about the same, but like I said all of the frame rails (even rocker panels are pretty decent) are solid apart from those under the seating area...which even those are decent other than the very rear of the pass side. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268278_1799710360047_1458420451_1998244_2430187_n.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducer Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Ducer, the Z market where we are is absolutely nothing like the market where you are. A $700 Z here would be a parts car, or a half-complete rust bucket. Nearly every car here has rust, and as a result, there's a price premium for one without. And dealing with rust I wouldn't consider easy. Not what I've got, anyway. Hey Buddy, I hear ya man. Getting limited now a days. Here is my Z. For the last few days, I removed sound deadening in the cabin. Just a scraper and a hammer and I chiseled it off little by little. With newer cars like my 240sx I had to use "dry ice" but these older Z's sound deadening material are hard and brittle. After that, I used a scraper with a razor blades and scrape the finer materials off. Then used "Goo Gone" with a drill and metal bristle to scrub. Rinse off with a towel. Today I pulled the engine and trans out. Purple powered degreased the engine bay and interior. Removed the fenders and everything. Most likely cleaning it more and pressure washing it tomorrow. I ordered a quart ($43) bucks of POR 15 on ebay, so i'll treat the rust. Rust isn't hard to deal with, I have lots of time, I have a welder and lots of cutting tools so money is the only issue, not labor. After rust treatment, I will use Rubberized undercoating, bed liner spray and Herculiner. Used herculiner before and it's amazing, even with the rusted floor pans, that Herculiner is tough even if the pan rusted away. Earlier this week: Most of the deadening material off, just residue left: Today: Cleaned but rusty: Deleted all the A/C and heater crap. Im in california so those things are useless in my opinion. It's not a daily so no need for all that ancient paper weight. Today: Naked engine bay and fender less. If you can find a Z for under $1000 that runs or has good parts, i think it's worth it. There will be pros and cons, and money is always a factor. I like to spend the lowest price for a car, and then see if there is a good and cheap way to fix it. You can buy a finished car for $5000-$15,000 but then there isn't any fun in buying one that is done. These cars a projects and it is all about the satisfaction of building them to your liking, wasting lots of money and time into them and feeling really good when you get it where you want it and people appreciate it. There isn't much appreciation when someone asks you about the engine, paint, and interior and what you did and you replied "Oh, I bought it like that." I love it when people ask or say, how did you do that, or what is that? and I replied "Oh, I made that." If you buy a Z, this means you're at a point in your life where you have a good daily driver and want something cool as a project. Get one for under $2500 that needs TLC. I paid $700 for a rusted Z, If there was one for $1400 and as I know now, I would definitely buy it, but the thing is, a non rusted Z doesn't go for $1,400 now a days maybe a bare shell, but not one with with I have. Again, I have a Lincoln Mig welder I bought for $600 buck, years ago, so $700+$600 is still better than a non rusted Z because now I have a tool that will fix many rusts and create many items. So Invest in Tools than parts. Edited July 1, 2011 by Ducer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I think my floors alone have more rust than your entire car . Mind you, my floors are the least of my worries. I've got rust in the firewall seam, C pillars, A pillars, floors, rockers, doglegs, spare tire well, rear hatch, roll pan, driver's rear wheel well, a random seam under the car, and a few other small miscellaneous spots. I get what you mean about the pride of having built it yourself, but there is a point where there is simply too much rust. All three of my projects, two of which are Z cars, are pretty close to qualifying. I really do not have the patience to spend hours and hours and hours going after every little hole my car has. I'd like to drive it before I'm old. And that's pretty much the reality of a sub-$1000 car on the east coast. Edited July 1, 2011 by rturbo 930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducer Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think my floors alone have more rust than your entire car . Mind you, my floors are the least of my worries. I've got rust in the firewall seam, C pillars, A pillars, floors, rockers, doglegs, spare tire well, rear hatch, roll pan, driver's rear wheel well, a random seam under the car, and a few other small miscellaneous spots. I get what you mean about the pride of having built it yourself, but there is a point where there is simply too much rust. All three of my projects, two of which are Z cars, are pretty close to qualifying. I really do not have the patience to spend hours and hours and hours going after every little hole my car has. I'd like to drive it before I'm old. And that's pretty much the reality of a sub-$1000 car on the east coast. Yeah, rust is horrible. I kinda of regret buying the car with all the rust in it. Though it may not be as much as your car, I have been chipping, scrapping and grinding like a MOFO. I will take this experience and buy another Z in the future with minimal or no rust. I've stripped the whole car because of rust, which is a good thing I believe. If a car didn't have rust, I would not have the chance to see each inch of the car. This is my first Z and unfortunately it's a rusty 260z. I didn't know about Flat tops, and how wack the 260z was. After I bought it, I read Wikipedia. I did underestimate the Rust issue. I think the $700 was a major part of why I bought it. When I first towed it home, I was saying to myself "WTF did I get myself into." When I paid $350 for the carb set up, I said "WTF did I get myself into." When I installed the carb and I got it running and the engine roared, I said "WTF, this is awesome, I can't wait to drive this down the road and not worry about Smog and cruise the beach and be bad ass." So ever since the engine fired up, Rust, holes, 1/2" quarter panel bondo, didn't really faze me much, I knew then the Z was alive and there wasn't any going back. When I went to the Datsun Swap meet last weekend, and saw a few like 5 Z's and about 100 510's I knew then how rare Z's are. I think that S30 Z's are the Japanese Muscle cars, and they have a GT supercar feel and design that no other Japanese car has. S30 Z's are probably among the only real Japanese sports cars back in the day. If you have a Z, I say you're lucky and a few years from now, you'll see them on Barret Jackson if no so already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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