Thinking of another VG swap.

[ZR8ED]

Yea I don't post here regularly since I sold the vg powered monster, and started playing with P cars. (seems to be a common theme for long time Z owners)

 

Anyhoo. I've recently sold what I hoped to be my second last Z project, and now I'm thinking of changing my plans for my next Z. I was going to go for a stock clean 78 280 in light blue metallic with white interior, and then modding the car in a more "old school" retro feel, with just enough hp to make it interesting with out having the racecar feel that I enjoyed when I was younger, but am no longer prepared to live with now. I know of a 300zx locally with a very nicely modded vg30e to the tune of 250+hp. I can get the car for a decent price (I have a very good chance as the car is just sitting now, and I've known the owner for decades.) I'm thinking of taking the car, drive it for a bit to sort out any bugs from it sitting, then source a clean 240-280 that is near stock, and drop this entire driveline into it...Possibly taking the a/c with it as well. Seems a shame to junk a good 300zx, but as I said, I KNOW this motor as I know the engine builder very well (he was my engine builder), and it was a $8k motor job. Very serious. His car was faster than one of my 1988 300zxt's running 9 lbs of boost!

 

Feels like it would be a lot of work, as I would be doing all of it at home, but it would be a lot simpler than my turbo vg swap was by a long shot.

 

Any thoughts? Worth the effort? Or should I stick with my original plan, and keep it simple. Finding a decent car is much more difficult than worrying about the condition of the driveline. Lots of rusted cars with good drivelines. I'm still on the fence, though I have contacted the owner, and will go check it out and see its current condition.

[260DET]

Why not just get the Z31 and mod it? Particularly if it's a two seater, they can be made to look great. Put some time and effort into the suspension, particularly the rear. It is not going to be the fastest thing around but it's a three liter NA so I assume outright performance is not your main objective.

[mario_82_ZXT]

From a distant perspective (having never really paid VG30es much attention) I thought breaking 200hp was a huge feat in those motors (NA at least).

 

Are you sure it's got that much power?

[Gollum]

If it was outrunning a VG30ET at 9lbs then I don't doubt the power claim. (we know they were both Z31's, and I'm assuming they were around the same weight)

 

My personal opinion, is that if you can get the car for a song and a dance, go for it. Getting the same 250 hp out of the L motor will be more time, energy, and possibly money all for an engine that's longer and taller. It does sound better, and that really matters to some, but not everyone.

 

I know you don't really need us to tell you if it's a good idea or not. It seems to me you're really just looking for someone to say it's ok for you to start another project, and I don't think you'll get many people arguing with you around here.

 

All that said, doing the NA swap should be MUCH easier than the turbo swap you've done before. I'd say do it.

[BLOZ UP]

The highest HP figure (to the rear wheels) on an NA VG30E I have ever seen is Russ, and he made 227HP. And that took quite a lot of work, IIRC. There's also someone on Z31Performance making similar power, but that's it. 250HP is a lot from those motors, without a turbo.

 

I would keep the L, maybe turbo it, and spend more time driving it instead of swapping engines. I say this as I am 6 months in to my VG30ET->S30 swap, and getting anxious to get it driving again.

[260DET]

The rule of thumb from a reasonably worked NA engine is 100hp per liter, L6's for example do this easily but the single cam VG is problematical. A great engine let down badly by a restrictive inlet setup IMHO although some say the heads are the main problem. Certainly the later OWO heads are better and are IMHO not the main problem.

[ZR8ED]

If it was outrunning a VG30ET at 9lbs then I don't doubt the power claim. (we know they were both Z31's, and I'm assuming they were around the same weight)

 

Yes they were both z31's though the NA had a 4.11 rear end. The NA is an 87 with an agressive cam, and heads that were like a work of art once completed. Polished, shotpeened, lightened, balanced internals etc. larger injectors, engine management,custom intake and throttlebody,flywheel, driveshaft, exhaust, blah blah blah. You know what I mean. The suspension is upgraded, the brakes are stock, it would be a nice cruiser on its own. A real sleeper. The guy got a major deal on that motor. Robello etc would have charged much more for this job.

 

I'm going to see the car tonight.

[Gollum]

I'm going to see the car tonight.

 

Which means pics for us tomorrow right?

[Michael]

The universal engine-swap rule of thumb applies: if you know your way around the candidate engine, then probably the swap is tractable and worthwhile. And it sounds like you're an old hand at this sort of thing.

 

Personally I just would not obtain much satisfaction from a Z31 chassis, even if lovingly modded/restored. This is no slight against that model series! Rather, the car falls into an "age bucket": old enough to be troublesome and temperamental as a daily-driver, but modern enough to be complicated and not yet a classic. By this thinking, it would make more sense to stick with an S30, or go with something much more modern (a 370Z, or a Porsche).

 

But again, if you're tooled-up for doing this sort of swap, and are familiar with the engine, and are getting what sounds like an excellent deal, then the reasons for not doing the swap melt away.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Michael

[New 2 z]

The universal engine-swap rule of thumb applies: if you know your way around the candidate engine, then probably the swap is tractable and worthwhile. And it sounds like you're an old hand at this sort of thing.

 

Personally I just would not obtain much satisfaction from a Z31 chassis, even if lovingly modded/restored. This is no slight against that model series! Rather, the car falls into an "age bucket": old enough to be troublesome and temperamental as a daily-driver, but modern enough to be complicated and not yet a classic. By this thinking, it would make more sense to stick with an S30, or go with something much more modern (a 370Z, or a Porsche).

 

But again, if you're tooled-up for doing this sort of swap, and are familiar with the engine, and are getting what sounds like an excellent deal, then the reasons for not doing the swap melt away.

 

the 370Z is not an exlusive Z like all the others or the 350z as a matter in fact their just like any other car on the nissan line up.

 

back when the 240Z came out the closet thing to owning a GT-R would be the S30 or the 510 if you were broke. again from 1984 - 1989 the closet thing you could own next to a GT-R was a Z31 and it sold for a pretty goof price, a GLL turbo with full leather interior was about 21 -23k thats ALMOST 60k in today's market! same with the Z32 sold for 60k in the 90's almost 100k+in todays market. it was a lot. but what separates them is the fact that with the rest you feel like you're actually driving a Z car, the 370/350Z does not have this feel.

 

 

 

additionally IF YOU KNOW THE Z31 platform jump on it, if you don't, stay away, i strongly advise you to stay away from the Z31 if you don't know much about it. it's a extremely simple car but you need to know it.

[ModernS30]

I feel like you should do it, and do an extensive install write up, I know you already have the first write up. You are bound to do things differently this time with previous experience on hand. I really really really want to do a VG30ET swap, or a VG33E-T swap. It is in my plans for the future, but being in college makes it rather difficult to have the time and money to accomplish such a goal, and L28et is much more attainable I feel.

[BLOZ UP]

the 370Z is not an exlusive Z like all the others or the 350z as a matter in fact their just like any other car on the nissan line up.

 

That's because they are cars on the line-up. But really, why is this? Because they share parts with other Nissan models? I think if you include the 280ZX and 300ZX (Z31 and Z32) as Z cars, then you have to accept the Z33 and Z34. The Z31 shares many parts with many other vehicles of the time. Purists will tell you that anything after the 280Z (or 240Z!) are not Z cars. Less purist people will tell you that the S30, Z32 and up are the only Z cars and that the S130 and Z31 were "mistakes".

 

It varies a lot depending on who you talk to, but they were all sold as Z cars. I'm not sure what makes something like the Z31 elusive, especially since the Z31 sold the most in the states, had the worst suspension and handling, and was quite lethargic compared to the other series.

 

back when the 240Z came out the closet thing to owning a GT-R would be the S30 or the 510 if you were broke. again from 1984 - 1989 the closet thing you could own next to a GT-R was a Z31 and it sold for a pretty goof price, a GLL turbo with full leather interior was about 21 -23k thats ALMOST 60k in today's market! same with the Z32 sold for 60k in the 90's almost 100k+in todays market. it was a lot. but what separates them is the fact that with the rest you feel like you're actually driving a Z car, the 370/350Z does not have this feel.

 

ZR8ED has quite a lot of experience with Zs, I believe. Also, your inflation figures are a little exaggerated. And the Z32 was closer to 40k back in the 90s, so 60k in today's money. I think the Z33/34 feel like Zs, it's just that they are new Zs, so you don't have that suspense back in your mind where you are wondering if somethings going to break. What would be really, really, cool would be to swap a VQ in to it, like a couple other people on this board has. The VQ has proven itself quite the successor of the VG.

 

additionally IF YOU KNOW THE Z31 platform jump on it, if you don't, stay away, i strongly advise you to stay away from the Z31 if you don't know much about it. it's a extremely simple car but you need to know it.

 

That's a little condescending; care to explain what's so mysteriously complicated about it? Did you read about how ZR8ED already started, completed, drove for 10 years, and sold a VG30ET S30?

Edited October 10, 2011 by BLOZ UP

[ZR8ED]

Quick update.

I've held off buying the car. I've had another recent deal not go so well, so I'm going to have to cool my jets for a bit and let the dust settle. No worries about losing the zx. It is going into storage any day now, so it will still be available next season. (the owner is a friend/coworker)

 

Its not like I don't have anything to tinker with for the winter anyways, so unless some deal falls into my lap (they seem to happen to me every now and again) I'll wait out old man winter working on the Porsche. This would be the first winter in 22 years that I have not worked on a z!