Benz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would absolutely love doors. This is fantastic; it looks more and more each day like you can just build a Datsun from the ground up with aftermarket parts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hi Kees, your project sounds very interesting!! If you can send some drawings with measurements we can modify to suit what you need for your suspension. Do you have trouble getting front screens?? The standard screen fits no probs. Tony D, shipping 7 Zeds would be a dream, I would be happy to get a couple over there for you guys to have a play with! The doors appear to be popular by the comments, I can do a deal on them if there was enough interest. If we could ship half a dozen pairs over we could probably knock 15-20% off. Also I mentioned import tax in a previous post that we have to pay on stuff we get from America, is it the same for you guys buying from here?? Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Similar to you, most people just outright lie to the revenuers to keep the costs low. I met someone in Belgium with this yellow car who was downright proud what he'd gotten by your Bureau of Internal Revenue... Not that I advocate outright lying. It's like taking parts across the border into Mexico. We continually have people down there ordering parts to be delivered to San Diego. Their managers come up, take them out of the boxes, and then drive them back across the border. Apparently if they aren't in the boxes, they are considered 'used parts' and therefore duty free... I'm sure coming to America there are similar quirks and loopholes. TABC in Long Beach exists solely as a way to beat the 25% import tariff on light duty commercial vehicles. Seems if you sent the trucks without beds they were 'vehicle, incomplete' and not hit with the 25% tax. Nissan would ship them with the beds detached and had them final assembled at the prep centre. I ship the cars to Rotterdam most of the time with the engines and transmissions separate or not bolted to the chassis so they come in as 'vehicles incomplete'---or simply parts. Last duty paid was something like 49 Euros...for 4 cars! Old cars nonetheless, but that's a damnsite better than what goes on in the UK. I should look into this, but generally it's stated valuation on invoicing. The harmonized shipping code would determine duty on a given shipment. It just matters what they are called. "Auto Parts" may have one class of taxes, while "glassfibre structures for mobile application" another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash542001 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I would be down for a group buy for doors if one was to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) 'Similar to you, most people just outright lie to the revenuers to keep the costs low'. Tony D. I am not 'most people' and I haven't posted on your forum to lie with regards to revenuers or anyone else. I thought our products may be of interest to you and others, thats all. If we can supply parts of interest to your forum members then great, if not I would still like to post the progress off the FRP shells. Thanks Craig Tony D . If I have missed you're sense of humour then forgive me as the internet makes it tricky!!! Edited March 11, 2012 by frpcraig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Yep, you missed it. Nobody expects humor when discussing the tax man. Your revenuers are more famous than ours...impetus for the Beatle's "Taxman" after they got the annual bill for only 104% of their gross that prior year. "Tax your feet and tax the street" or something like that... I would never MEAN "Lie" of course in some negative connotation. It would merely be a misunderstanding as "lying would be wrong"... The government deserves every cent they demand as they provided such basic and required necessities crucial to the construction of the parts like the ability to envision them, conceive them, the no-interest grant money for prototyping and development as well as monthly stipend for you and yours whilst waiting for the resins to cure and as they are shipped to market. Without their involvement, these parts would never have come to pass and rightfully so then do they deserve to confiscate sales taxes on your end, and lest we forget the VALUABLE AND INCALCUABLE contribution the US Government made to these parts coming to being like free ocean shipping, subsidized patronage programs for construction of historic and otherwise exotic and obsolete vehicles. They DESERVE every single cent, shilling, farthing, pfennig and baht they extract from every dealing in commerce as we all know without them we simply could not exist in our own collective guilds supporting each other in our endeavors. The tax man, if "lied to" will spring into action like the Spanish Inquisition! Jumping catlike from perches high above and swooping down on the scofflaws deceiving them in vain attempts to retain the ill gotten fruits of their own labor. Rarely expected their two main tactics are stealthy pursuit, copious documentation through chartered accountants of the actual costs of production and a relentless... Rarely expected the taxman's THREE main tactics are stealthy pursuit, copious documentation through chartered accountants of the actual costs of production, a relentless devotion to detail and... Rarely expected the taxman's FOUR, FOUR main tactics are stealthy pursuit, copious documentation through chartered accountants of the actual costs of production, a relentless devotion to detail, a clear vision for revenue enhancement for the governmental coffers and a fanatical... AMONGST the taxman's tactics you will find.... Edited March 12, 2012 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 My point was, that by careful reading of harmonized codes for products shipped, something as simple as a semantic shift as mentioned from 'auto parts' to 'glassfibre components for mobile application' may mean the difference between a 50% tariff upon importation, and something more reasonable like 3%. My examples of the small commercial vehicles was illustrative of the fact it goes on every day by manufacturers who, through simply unbolting a component thereby change the shipped definition of the product from something that gets a confiscatory tariff imposed, to one with little or no tariff. Such things must rightly be considered before entering the endeavor, as the added costs from governmental revenue collection may drive the costs of the product to a level where it is not commercially viable to ship an otherwise attractively priced commodity to a market where there is some demand. The gent I spoke of meeting in Belgium, well, there's no other way to describe what he did. From the preceding post, I hope you can understand I didn't condemn the man as some of his dodges were of the 'bolt them on and they are used' legal dodge or "Loophole" similar to removing boxes at the Mexican border so you don't have to pay import taxes or Toyota/Nissan incomplete vehicle shipments to skip on the punitive 25% protectionist tariff. But others like a false invoice are outright lies and can not be condoned. Were he 'in business' his practices would of course be his eventual ruin as governments like to get ya on the taxes. It's how they got Al Capone back in the 30's... I'm sure you have a good chartered accountant tracking your costs and can give a real and true cost of production/cost of sale=profit ratio breakdown when valuating your pieces for import tax evaluation. I simply wanted to make sure WHAT you call them can GREATLY influence HOW MUCH of a bite (Cumshaw in Chinese, La Mordita in Mexico...) the revenuers assess to the product coming in... If calling them one thing makes for a 100% tariff, and calling them something semantically different but functionally and ethically the same results in 3% good business practice would dictate the latter and not former nomenclature on shipping documents and invoicing. As I said "I" have to look at this as I'm unfamiliar with taxation levels for composite structures. I don't know that Boeing has lobbied as heavily for protection against foreign competition as our "Big 3" automakers so maybe there aren't any punitive pittfalls to importation of the glassfibre parts you produce other than the already stated shipping penalty because they just take up so much space and therefore generate punitive "DIMWEIGHT" shipping charges. If I find anything, I will let you know. Anything to assist. I do so lament when articles are available overseas that are so nice, yet the only reason I can see for them not being available in the USA is some legal trap regarding product liability, or outright protectionist restrictions meant for volume production importers misapplied to hurt the individuals on both ends of the sales transaction. You loose a sale, we loose a product. All over meddling in our private transactions. But I digress and will step off my soapbox now. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I might be missing this but... What is the weight of the frp chasis compared to the factory one? How much more rigid is your work compared to the factory stuff? If someone wants to do a IMSA type widebody can that be done with this chasis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 bjhines, the shell and subframe and all panels weigh approx 200 kilos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So that is 440lbs. But what is the weight of the factory equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Based on this threadsomewhere in the 500lb range. That actually sounds a little high to me, as I was able to drag a rusty shell around by myself and could pick it up, a half at a time, while others put jackstands under it. But I didn't weigh it so maybe I'm just stronger than I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks Tony D, I will read and re-read what you have mentioned. There is a lot to consider in your posts and they deserve some time to mull over. Your points are very relevant to me, whilst we ship z parts all over Europe that is somewhat easier to say the least compared to getting parts over to you guys.....leave it with me. nash542001, Thanks for the interest, much appreciated. I would love to send a pile of panels etc over staight away but as Tony D has mentioned I need to research how to make it cost effective to you and others over there. I have a feeling there will be a legally acceptable way of doing this but I need to take advice on this..... texis30O, the stripped bare shell (steel) weighs in at about 225 kilos from the info I have gathered. So in effect you save/gain all the panels free of weight if that makes sense?? At the weight we make the bodyshell and subframe now it is complete overkill tbh, with regards to structural integrity. All our load calculations are done by a guy who writes the British standards on such matters so I have no worries there. zero....yeah your stronger than you think!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Always best to retain a specialist in at least the beginning of these endeavors, soon you will be an old hand and know other tricks simply by experience. Shipping things can be easy, but the paperwork can make it a hassle of incalculable dimensions. Someone like me with containers of components could 'make' a car with this shell in Kit-Car form. What we on the US Side need to understand is that in the UK the kit car industry is alive and well due to their regulations (or what they once where)--for example, you could buy new body-in-white Mini Cooper Shells without VIN on them. By the '3 of 5 Rule' in the UK, by transferring 3 of 5 of the major component assemblies from one chassis to another, you could legally transfer the VIN from the original vehicle to the new chassis. It keeps craftsmen employed, and in the old days keeping a very old car alive exempted you from a large aspect of punitive road taxes. This kept historic vehicles on the road as they properly should be, as well as allowing a section of the population who could never afford the costs associated with a new vehicle to prolong what they had almost indefinitely. But back to the 3 of 5... By transferring rolling gear, engine, & transmission from your rusted hulk of a 68 Mini to the new no-VIN body-in white (when I looked at this, a new complete chassis was something like 698 or 1698 Sterling. Meaning a straight swap put you from an unsafe rustbucket that otherwise ran fine into a car that at least mechanically was sound enough to past Ministry of Transport Safety Inspection and get a roadworthiness certificate. Due to corrosion issues being in a foggy, salt water atmosphere in most population centres around the UK, this was a matter of vehicular practicality rather than some quasi-shady chop-shop affair. Oh, were this only possible in the US of A! In any case, time for me to go to work here...Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Tony D, you have a good understanding of the car scene over here........... What is the issue in the USA with regards to cars??? You guys 'invented' the cobra replica did you not?? A tubular chassis, big ford engine and a plastic body??? What is your equivalent of our DVLA's beef with replicas?? There are newish rules here but your comments are still relevant, We can put one of our cars legally on the road (a reshell) with it's original reg plate and be insured no problem. The DVLA however 'suggest' we put the car through what was called a 'single vehicle approval' , though now called an 'individual vehicle approval'. Are you allowed to import a vehicle finished and tested in the uk or would it fall foul off your rules?? C: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanD Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Only problem is how to get a glass front window for the car and also the suspension parts. Would be nice if we can use BMW suspension on the frame. Cheap and easy to come by. Kees Kees, I have new S30 standard and heated screens -what is your perceived problem as Craig has stated that they fit into his shell. btw chaps, I've seen it up close, real close and it's stronger than a std bare shell ! Craig - tell 'em about the dashboards............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Oh the 3 of 5 rule would make life so much easier for people here in the USA. Proper documentation of two legally obtained vehicles and then keeping one living out of the two. It literally is a Federal Offense to tamper with a VIN! I know someone with an RA22 Celica that has cancerous rust that ate the last two digits of his VIN. Feds would not let him reimport the vehicle...kind of a bummer after he got a TOYOTA replacement panel Sans-VIN and had it all properly repaired. There are ways to do that kind of thing, but not outside the USA on a vehicle that was already under Federal Scrutiny. The car constructed in UK and then imported would probably get a VIN assigned. Most states now allow something like that...but it's generally for pre-emissions controlled vehicles. Maddeningly I could not import a Fuel Injected and Catalyzed 2003 Air Cooled Beetle for $6300, but I could spend 2X that much getting a carburetted pre emissions 1966 (without proper seat belts in is, as dont you know they weren't required then!) I watch automtoive regulations all over the place. Most of my stuff is in Sea Containers. I came to a realization late last year I could pack anything not already in them into maybe one or two more, and basically relocate anywhere in the WORLD for about $27,000 in shipping costs. And some of the places I'm considering...well, those containers would make one hell of a nice house! Do you make it to Spa in September for the 6 Hours Historic? I've been there the past few years... Plan on it again this year. Maybe I'll switch up and go seek rainy venues in UK to go see old friends and meet some new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frpcraig Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks Tony D, again a usefull reply.... This is perhaps a time to reflect and study.... as I mentioned it seems much more complicated to get a 'door' to you guys before the gov. decide to make it far more complicated (and expensive) than it's worth. I know that sounds like I am being negative but I am not for sure.... again leave it with me.... Spa is something I want to go to, Sean D who has recently posted on this thread is very active in promoting the z cars throughout Europe and has kindly invited me and my family for a trip to this. If you go Tony D then it would be great to meet up up!! Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Maybe it is off topic, but it would be awesome, if there were s130 doors available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchetypeDatsun Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Maybe it is off topic, but it would be awesome, if there were s130 doors available. x2 Edited March 15, 2012 by 280zx@541 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't know a whole lot about importing, which Tony obviously has covered like the moon's shadow on an ant, but I just thought I'd chime in regarding registration. More and more states are developing laws for customs, and I've heard talk about people working on a federal legislation to allow federally given VIN numbers to ground up builds that could be recognized by all 50 states and allow more ease of registration of customs. For current laws, Dynacorn has links to each state's information page on registering customs: http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/stateseal2.html In california, I see no reason you couldn't use an imported fiberglass chassis to register a S30 replica with a SB100 registration process. I'd actually find this a closer intended use of the SB100 than the typical "put a running gear in and you're done" kit that soak up a large portion of the SB100's given out every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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