CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Looks like the center bars are to short, causing the bearings to pop out of the cage. You could make a 1" thick spacer to go between the companion flange and the cage, which will make the cage ride deeper on the bearings... you wouldnt happen to have a picture of one so i can get an idea of what it is you are referring to? im still very new to independent rear suspensions. also would'nt longer axles be a good fix as well? open to options Edited January 7, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I made one for my old axles I had this problem with (long ago). It's the part with yellow paint on it. What I did was have a machine shop make me a circle the size of the companion flange mating surface, with the 6 holes drilled in it to go between the axles cage, where it bolts to the companion flange. It fits between the companion flange and the cage where you bolt the two together. I only had to do the passenger side for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 also would'nt longer axles be a good fix as well? Sure... if you want to spend that kind of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) I made one for my old axles I had this problem with (long ago). It's the part with yellow paint on it. spacer.jpg What I did was have a machine shop make me a circle the size of the companion flange mating surface, with the 6 holes drilled in it to go between the axles cage, where it bolts to the companion flange. It fits between the companion flange and the cage where you bolt the two together. I only had to do the passenger side for some reason. Looks pretty simple to me. Did you install one on both sides of the axle or just the side that was tearing up the cage? Im having pull out on both axles. The driver side is tearing up the cage that bolts to the diff while the the passenger is tearing up the cage bolted to the hub. One inch is what you used correct? ALSO (sorry for all the dern questions) which way would you re-install the "race" or bearing holder? grove closest to the center of the axle or towards the wheel? Annnnnd last but not least where is the best place to find a couple spare cages? Edited January 7, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The thickness amount you'll need is what it will take to get the bearings to ride in the center of travel in the cage once your car is at ride height. I think you will solve the problem by doing both pass and driver sides. Maybe flip that one whole axle that is pulling out at the diff side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 The thickness amount you'll need is what it will take to get the bearings to ride in the center of travel in the cage once your car is at ride height. I think you will solve the problem by doing both pass and driver sides. Maybe flip that one whole axle that is pulling out at the diff side. Any sources on the cups? and by "flipping that whole axle" Do you mean the bearing holders inside of the cup? grooved ring towards the inside of the axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Be careful if you decide to buy a "new" Q45 axle from a parts store for the CV joint. "New" means a totaly different design, that will only work with the manufacturer's shafts. Only "rebuilt" will have the Nissan design. You said that that the PO said you had MM axles. I don't see that MM sells a CV axle/center bar/shaft. Maybe the PO meant 5 lug axles as shown on the MM page - http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=32_53 You probably have the two short shafts from a Q45 and the same problem that SUNNNY Z and RB26 had. Interesting problem, those two drive shafts seem to be a lot more trouble for everybody, than you would think from looking at them. I'm still trying to find the cheap way to get a VLSD in my car. I'm stuck on axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Be careful if you decide to buy a "new" Q45 axle from a parts store for the CV joint. "New" means a totaly different design, that will only work with the manufacturer's shafts. Only "rebuilt" will have the Nissan design. You said that that the PO said you had MM axles. I don't see that MM sells a CV axle/center bar/shaft. Maybe the PO meant 5 lug axles as shown on the MM page - http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=32_53 You probably have the two short shafts from a Q45 and the same problem that SUNNNY Z and RB26 had. Interesting problem, those two drive shafts seem to be a lot more trouble for everybody, than you would think from looking at them. I'm still trying to find the cheap way to get a VLSD in my car. I'm stuck on axles. This is one of the things that sucks about buying a used car i have no idea what is really in the car. I like the Idea of using an adapter. It seems to have worked for a few guys and seems to be a simple fix. If i could find some replacement cups i would be in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Picture A represents the bearing holder installed with the grooved ring installed on the inside and picture B is with the grooved ring on the outside. Im calling the "inside" closest to the center of the axle and "outside" would be the wheel or dif depending on which side of the axle you are working on. Picture A Picture B They came out of the car with picture B.. It looks to me that installing them with the grooved ring on the outside would infact "make the axle longer" or at least give it more room travel in and out of the cup. In figure A it seems to center up the bearing carrier but does not provide much travel. It looks to me like figure A would actually put more stress on the snap ring and cause the bearing to chew up the cup. If what i am saying is makes sense than even though these axles where installed "properly" there is still additional spacing needed to prevent this from happening again right? Hence the spacer you guys are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slammed68 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The car was previously mine. The axles are indeed from MM and if you look on their website you will see if you click on the R230 CV adapters there is a dropdown selection that says - YES - I DO NEED CV AXLES. A 400$ option on top of the 515$ adapters.. The Q45 axles are about 2 feet long, no way they would work in a Z car... I would put my money on listening to RB26powered74Zcar and doing the spacers.. looks like he used around 3/8" thick material for a spacer. With these cars sitting at a lower heighth I believe that the parts that they sell to mount these R-230's is not sufficient. It seems as though they are almost made to fit a stockish ride height. Another possible solution would be to drill new holes in the rear mount, and maybe re-fab the front mount that I built in order to get the rear back in line with the hubs, althought ground clearance may be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slammed68 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Also - a little refresher, the cups are the part that comes stock off of the Q45 CV axle assembly. When "they" say that you need to buy 2 Q45 rear axles to do this swap, it is specifically to just rob the "cups", "races/balls", and the inner race. So to buy new cups should not be too big of a search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) The car was previously mine. The axles are indeed from MM and if you look on their website you will see if you click on the R230 CV adapters there is a dropdown selection that says - YES - I DO NEED CV AXLES. A 400$ option on top of the 515$ adapters.. Thanks for clarifying my misinformation. I had originally written a comment that it seemed odd that MM would sell an axle that was too short, but edited it out. But that does appear to be the case. When a car at stock height hits a bump it will drop or rise to the height where the joints pop apart momentarily so too short is too short no matter where your ride height starts. If the axles are designed to work with the adapters then MM must have bad information on how long the axles should be to work right, since they come as a package. Weird how this stuff happens. Good luck to the OP on getting it working. Seems like there aren't many easy deviations from stock when it comes to the rear drive shafts, everyone has problems. Edited January 7, 2013 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have dropped MM a couple emails with photos to let them know the trouble I'm having. I'm going to take a cup to work with me tomorrow and con a machinist into making me some adapters on company time. Looks like 3/8" is the latest thickness? That seems a bit more appropriately sized. One last question before I hit the sack, what year model axles should I be looking for, for the q45 axles? Thanks again everyone for the input. Looks like ill have this beast on the road by next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slammed68 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I believe those came from a '95 Q45. Look up what years that era of Q45 was built, and that should give you an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I believe those came from a '95 Q45. Look up what years that era of Q45 was built, and that should give you an answer. Alright thanks, I wasnt sure if there was a specific year i needed to look out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Does anyone know if the stock q45 axles have the same bearing cup on both ends? I only need two cups and don't want to order two complete axles if I can get away with ordering one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm almost positive the cages are the same on both sides of the axel. The problem with this set up is both ends float. Even with a longer axel you will have some type of problem. The longer axel will eat thru the stock grease cap and move until it hits something. Either inboard or out board. If the axel does not pull the CV apart, it will eat something else on the side that the axel moves toward. I hope that makes sense. the End stops on both CV's will cure this. It's a cheap and easy fix verses having custom axels made. Hopes this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Hmmm, I'm for certain not an expert here and I do not have the setup mentioned in this thread, but why would someone go through the trouble of making custom axles and then require the purchaser to install the cages in reverse to make more clearance? Wouldn't the company just make the axles the correct lenght? That being said, I think the cages should not be reversed which would move the bearings closer to the center of the cups. Also, since the two sides of the car are acting differently ( one side has the wheel side damaged and one side has the diff side damaged) it would appear to me that axles do not have a physical stop inserted. When you removed the axle did the cover (pictured in the first picture of the first post of this thread) have a raised button in the center protruding towards the axle? This is there to keep the full floatnig axle from moving out of it's comfort zone. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I ran into the same problem after I got the bright idea to have my car aligned with the rear stut tops [which are slotted] adjusted outboard, using the adjustable lcs's to dial in the negative camber desired. My plan was to, while at the track [road courses] move the top of the struts inboard for more negative camber, if needed. Was fine going straight but in high speed corners I heard faint grinding then a loud pop followed by no power to the rear wheels. Initially thougth I snapped an axle or stub axle or blew the diff. None of the above-fractured the cv cage. Finally determined I had exceeded the servicable length of the axle/cv cage assy with my camber alignment idea. Multiple calls/emails to Ross at modern motorsports resulted in zero information and him telling my it was all my fault and not his product. Gotta love that kind of attitude, especially when formulating my decision whether to purchase more from him [never again!]. Anyway, shortened the lca's, fast forward to a few years and thousands of track miles and haven't had the issue again.<br /><br />Lesson-measure the servicable compressed and extended lengths to ensure you do the best to remain wihtin them = fewer headaches & broken parts...<br /><br />My 2 cents worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) If you mean the cv cage [holds the cv balls] then yes, they are the same. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="CrayZ" data-cid="1035398" data-time="1357572844"><p>Does anyone know if the stock q45 axles have the same bearing cup on both ends? I only need two cups and don't want to order two complete axles if I can get away with ordering one.</p></blockquote> Edited January 7, 2013 by 1 tuff z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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