Tony D Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Even stock the spray bar may not adequately lube lobes at idle, hot. It's kinda why they went to the drilled cams. But at speed, both systems keep things cool up top. Either one will lube the lobes, but that extra oil blowing over everything takes more heat out of the components, like the valve springs, and even the head. They both may not go to the lobes at hot idle...but the drilled lobes are sufficient for that. It's higher rpms where the spray bar starts being beneficial for the reasons mentioned. The decreased surface tension of synthetic oil should help wet upper end components better and also aid in heat removal. Heat kills springs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 On coatings. Found some stuff on the Kameari site. Manganese phosphate, manganese phosphoric acid. Seems to be typically used for corrosion-proofing, but Kameari is touting it for wear. Seems like some marketing guys might have their hands in here, but still interesting. http://www.kameariusa.com/L6_SuperDragCamshaft.php http://www.kameariusa.com/L6_TimingChain.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 (edited) Even stock the spray bar may not adequately lube lobes at idle, hot. It's kinda why they went to the drilled cams. But at speed, both systems keep things cool up top. Either one will lube the lobes, but that extra oil blowing over everything takes more heat out of the components, like the valve springs, and even the head. They both may not go to the lobes at hot idle...but the drilled lobes are sufficient for that. It's higher rpms where the spray bar starts being beneficial for the reasons mentioned. The decreased surface tension of synthetic oil should help wet upper end components better and also aid in heat removal. Heat kills springs! So Tony, what is the scoop on running internally oiled cams along in conjunction with the stock sway bar - one has to drill the restrictor in the supply from the block to that head or not? I have seen you comment in another thread (Post 15) that this should be done when running both an internally oiled cam with the stock external spray bar. If there isn't a definitive word, then how about a recommendation? Or a guess? My engine's bottom end is fresh with correct bearing clearances. I want to say 2.5 thou, but I'm being lazy by not looking at my build specs right now. By the way, I've been trying to get my hands on the billet spray bar from LarryRacer240Z, but it has been half a year and still none have been manufactured by his supplier. Maybe for my 50th birthday (in six years) i'll get one. Edited September 6, 2013 by inline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 It is recommended the orifice be opened to allow more oiling on the top end for all High Performance L-Enines. Last guy who asked I directed to Frank Honsoweitz, and he posted the "definitive" answer from the guy whose name is on the book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Fired up the engine tonight with the new cam in it. I ran it at 2500 RPM for 20 minutes and shut it off. This time around, I have a chill cast Estas blank, ground with the same master Integral Cams used to make the first cam, but there has been no nitride treatment. I used redline assembly lube on the lobes and main journals. And instead of using Mobil 1, I am using Redline racing oil. Was a $100 for two gallons delivered, and the comp pan took it all. Of course, since the engine has run before, and carbs are adjusted, etc. I got initial fire up after two very brief turns of the starter. I confirmed with my engine builder that the oil restrictor supplying oil to my cylinder head remains unmodified. I didn't know that the hole should be enlarged for my application. Not doing that until the head comes off for freshening. I have the stock spray bar for now in addition to the internal oiling of the cam. I'd like to get either the billet one from LarryZ or maybe the Rebello one. Fingers crossed that I don't have a problem with the cam or rockers this time. Edited September 8, 2013 by inline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Regarding low oil flow at idle - it might be worhwhile to bump the idle speed up semi-permanently, until you get some miles on the cam, or even permanently. A couple hundred RPM might make the difference in flow with no real adverse effects except you'd lose some of the cammy/lopey idle sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 With a non-opened restrictor in the head, you may well have some flow issues from the spray bar, but the internal lobe holes should suffice. You can easily block the spray bar using blanking gaskets to see if that increases the lobe flow. I'm thinking on the track car I couldn't idle it below 1,700 with the DCOE's as well. Milder cammed engines with good vacuum may idle a bit "low"---in the past I've told guys to bump the idle to 900 even on SU cars as the lack of vacuum at idle with some cams makes or dodgy brakes or HVAC controls on later cars. I know when we went to EFI, the atomisation was so good we could idle that same setup down to the point where the "cranking speed" indication was intermittently flashing on the laptop screen. Just because we COULD idle our Bonneville Engine at 400rpms, doesn't mean we SHOULD. If you've got carbs, I'd say you should idle it around 900-1,000 rpms just for the higher vacuum it provides, giving better off-idle transition. And it helps with oil flow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Good luck! Keep an eye on valve clearance on the first 500mi. to make sure they're always good and you should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 While we are on the subject of head oiling. I did have the port opened up on my block during initial rebuild. I have since then had to replace the HG. I know I didn't do anything to enlarge the hole on the HG- is this a problem besides defeating the purpose of modifying the block. Not meaning to hijack your thread. Congrats and hope things stay lubed up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 As far as I know...the headgasket hole is a LOT larger than the restrictor that is pressed into the block... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Yep, like a 5mm I.D. Copper Crush Ring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Thought I might had an answer to my excessive oil pressure-shucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Define "excessive pressure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Tony, don't want to delute this thread, but I wanted to ask about the oil port while on the subject. Trying to make sure I haven't over looked something. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/104909-excessive-oil-pressure-issue/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Ok. Cam number two is "effed". This is not fun people. Various cam lobes: The rocker with the most damage: And a close up: At this point, I think running both internally oiled and spray bar is complete SHITE. Clearly there is not enough oil getting to this cam. Edited September 9, 2013 by inline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Damn dude - that sucks bad. I'm not for the dual oil system , but to exclusively blame that as the issue- I'm not sure about that. Like I said before, with what you have been dealing with I would have kept it simple and decided on one oiling system. Did you verify visually oil was getting to every lobe before starting? By now I would have can opened a valve cover to watch in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Damn dude - that sucks bad. I'm not for the dual oil system , but to exclusively blame that as the issue- I'm not sure about that. Like I said before, with what you have been dealing with I would have kept it simple and decided on one oiling system. Did you verify visually oil was getting to every lobe before starting? By now I would have can opened a valve cover to watch in real time. No, I have not visually checked to see if oil is getting to every lobe. I was/am scared to death to turn it over at cranking speed to test that... And I don't think turning the oil pump shaft at power drill speed is sufficiently fast enough to observe (accurately) oil flow from the spray bar... My engine builder is sending me his pressurizing outfit, so I can hook it up to the block and check oil flow without cranking. Ya know... another thing... my valve springs are running 56 lbs pressure at installed height, so it's not like I have this excessive valve spring load I am dealing with. Within a few seconds of starting the oil pressure gauge showed just north of 70 psi (yes, I know, this is at the block main passage) and stayed pretty much right there for the full 20 minutes (maybe dropped 2-4 psi as oil got warm). Ran it at 2500 RPM only! For F sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think my drill turns at 3800 rpm- how much do you need to see oil coming from the lobes OR spray bar. That looks like a sign of No oil. I would have pop canned a valve cover to watch it while engine was running. I would have done the drill to just prime everything. Not trying to rub anything I dude, because I know how frustrating this is got to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inline6 Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Rockers: All: 1 and 2: 3 and 4: 5 and 6: 7 and 8: 9 and 10: 11 and 12: Edited September 9, 2013 by inline6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 You guys realize drill motor speed of 3800 equates to 7,600 rpms engine speed...right? I don't know about this...two cams IMMEDIATELY? Pull the damn head and check the passageway. And the cam towers. Something is wrong in this engine. Madcaw, I posted in the other thread, your oil pressure IS NOT "excessive" -- it's almost textbook perfect, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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