glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) Took the car to the dyno today. http://youtu.be/4BwdM0fj3ZI? Fast forward to 1:28 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wlWMrXAQsQg/UXa_fe9mBgI/AAAAAAAACms/ywbieKYlx4g/s1048/20130423_120548.jpg Motor was built by Datsun Parts LLC and has about 2000 miles on it now. Build list: N42 block N42 Head (Full Port & Polish) Stainless valves 11/1 compression 490/290 cam schneider double coil springs and crommoly retainers LD28 forged crank L24 piston rods ARIAS Pistions (flat heads with valve pockets) Full floating pins JDM timing set ARP studs arizona zcar aluminium performance oil pan JDM ceramic coated header (6 into 3 to 2) (intake manifold also ceramic coated) 3in exhaust with double glasspack JSK fuel rail 270cc turbo injectors 60mm throttle body Rising Rate fuel regulator Cold air intake NGK plugs Fidanza aluminum flywheel Centerforce clutch 83 Trubo 5 speed R200 open diff Royal Purple 10-50 engine oil and Trans oil Edited April 24, 2013 by glitched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srgunz Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I have been to Kelly Moss Motorsports. Major Porsche build shop. Very cool operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) That's pretty underpowered unless there is some correction factor....how much did you pay for the motor? Also what are you using for fuel management? Edited April 24, 2013 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I was thinking that is a bit low.... seems like it should be more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Where's the beef? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 That engine should be making more power than that. What are you using for engine management? That combination should be capable of a LOT more than that. What did the cylinder head flow at? A full "street port" will usually come in around 200CFM intake, 140CFM exhaust, and will be capable of at least 225 HP, if not more. Different shops call different flow numbers different things, but that's "the usual" numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 with that type of built and high CR on a Mustang dyno you should make north of 200 WHP. It also peaks early. What ECU are you using and what was the AFR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) Or maybe there's a bench racer mentality of what a build can do? No, I have not done any digging yet of other dynos of fuel injected strokers (without ITBs). No, I'm not an expert in dyno science where numbers can be affected by type or setup (or shops that "race" their dynos with other local shops). No, I'm not even all that knowledgeable nor experienced about the car and what a build should do. I'm a "driver" and shade tree mechanic who bought this car last fall and put it into storage until spring. Since I bought it, the only work I've done is replaced the alternator, rewired the electric fans (previous owner had them powered off the ignition coil as a quick fix because he didnt have time to do it right before he sold it to me), installed longer wheel studs, replaced wheel bearings, and installed a front sway bar. Anyway, BEGi FPR and the pressure gauge reads within 40-70 No aftermarket computer or anything, nothing to tune except timing really, and that's at 45 I was running 93 octane. No detonation. Smells a little rich to me. They used descriptors like "good/clean/crisp" when making comments on the smell. They did not hook up AFR. I asked them about when i pulled the plugs at home, they were black and smelled of gas (but dry) and they said that wasn't an issue. I went to Kelly Moss because they've been around for a long time and have experience and are a proper race shop, so I was leaning on their expertise. Edited April 24, 2013 by glitched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 That's why it's not making power, you have stock efi. I would get a wideband with that setup.....and a way way better engine management. As for the bench racing comment, I've seen a dual SU car pull 192rwhp with a great port, needle setup, and large cam. And that was on an L28 bottom. Also the port means nothing if your manifolds aren't port matched with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It's not "bench racing" as much as we've seen properly tuned 3.1 strokers make MUCH more than what you put down...so we were intending to offer solutions as to why it's down on power. Heck, a cammed stocker can make 180WHP, with proper tuning, and ITS engines make 200+ on "stock-by-rules" engines. Black, dry, gassy plugs say it's running too rich, what's the ground strap look like? White to the bend, then dark after? The stock ECU really doesn't handle cams well on stock displacement engines. If you decide to go to an aftermarket like Megasquirt or the Z31 computer+Nistune, you can probably make a nice power bump happen with not a lot of work. 45* of timing? On an 11:1 compression engine, it's astonishing that you're not getting detonation even on pump 93 AND the cam. Are you measuring with the vacuum advance connected? (which would not be terribly out of line, if you are.) Most L-series 6-cylinder engines run best with about 36 degrees of mechanical timing advance on the N42 head, with up to 45-48 degrees under cruise vacuum. The power peak seems to coincide with the stock computer; the factory engine managment goes open loop at around 4000RPM and switches to a fixed fueling map that isn't influenced by the AFM much, if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Uh, where's the ground strap supposed to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 On the plug...the center conductor arcs to the ground strap. If you're gonna read plugs, gotta look at all of the plug. The outer steel ring should be pretty dark, the center porcelain should be tannish, and the ground strap should be clean and white to the bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Oh, duh, yeah, for some reason when you said ground strap i went strait to thinking of engine grounding and a braided metal ground strap from engine to chasis. It's all black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) It's a Datsun Parts LLC motor. I don't think that he's a professional builder of performance engines. Not saying he doesn't know what he's doing but he doesn't have a track record. I'm really not trying to bash on your engine or the builder. Just saying that he might be just a guy learning as he goes. Edit 2 - Curious - does he supply a build sheet with the engine with measurements, things like combustion chamber volume or flow numbers, cam/valve timing numbers (opening and closing), distributor specs, etc? That would tell something also about what you might expect from the collection of parts. Edited April 24, 2013 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 It's a Datsun Parts LLC motor. I don't think that he's a professional builder of performance engines. Not saying he doesn't know what he's doing but he doesn't have a track record. I Didn't choose the builder, and I didn't buy the motor. Like usual when you buy a car someone's already built and put money into, I got a deal as he sold it for a LOT less than put into it. I knew going in that it wouldn't be of the same level of a rebello motor. I still can't really complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 glitched, Please relax and try not to get to miffed at some of the responses you get from some guy's in a thread like this. If you can over look the perceived sarcasm you will definitely learn how to improve your numbers on the motor. There is a wealth of knowledge here. You just have to learn how to get it out of these guy's heads with out getting pissed off first... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It's not a bad start. Probably a lot more in there. The other guys know much more than I do about extracting power, I'm more interested in seeing what Datsun Parts LLC is putting out for product. Good luck with it and thanks for posting the dyno results. It does seem odd though that the shop didn't take any AFR readings at all. The results would have been more valuable, especially for a baseline for future tuning. Maybe they broke all of their O2 sensors and didn't want to waste a session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Thanks for posting your numbers-sorry if my "where's the beef" comment seemed more than what it was. I was thinking of those old Wendy commercials-I think - where the old lady says that classic line-"where's the beef" Proper tune and proper engine management and you will surely increase those numbers. From what I have read over the years the stock ECU will not handle this engine. The timing numbers don't make sense to me either. Not sure how long you have been around this sight, but you will hear over and over that it's all about tuning. I went to a car show last year where this guy had a 'stroker' also. My L24 was just a few ponies short of his on the dyno-he was pissed. Good luck with your machine and enjoy the wealth of expertise here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitched Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) Didnt mean to come off that way. and have not taken any offence. just playing ball. I've been on various car forums since 2001. I'm also now in contact with Datsun Parts LLC, he remembers building the motor back in 2008. Got any links or pointers to point me in the direction for engine managment? I'm not sure if this would be something i could do myself. But i have read up on nistune a couple years ago, whats this about switching to a z31 ecu? Edited April 24, 2013 by glitched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I don't have sound on my desk top. What was the HP results? I don't see it in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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