Matt Cramer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 We generally respond on most weekdays, but the office is closed on weekends. Or email us at websales@diyautotune.com - that generally is the fastest way to contact us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks Matt-I will keep that in mind. Well had my box set up per megamanual installing the drop resisitor and install the jumpers. I also installed a drop resistor across the leads for the Hall sensor. RPM's are back and seem stable at cranking speed. So I moved on the check timing at crank speed. Well that didn't work as predicted. I set Tuner at 10 degrees for cranking and couldn't find the timing marks with my timing gun. At this point I am guessing I had the wrong angle for #1 , so I started throwing different angles in until I could see the marks with my timing light. I "thought" had my flywheel set-up for 50 degree angle, but by the time I messed around with the numbers in tuner studio I was at 275 degrees. Don't know what I did there, but I did finally get the timing light to show 10 degrees to match crank timing. I need to do so more studying, but I don't believe this is an issue. I felt brave enough to try and start the car with a fixed advance of 20 degrees, but she wouldn't go. My battery was starting to get fatigued too. I also noticed that the light in my wideband gauge was flickering or pulsing with the cranking of the engine. Not sure I like that because the wideband is fed power from my aux fuse block that also powers my MS. Never saw that before and not sure what gives there. I decided to put the battery on a charger and do some more reading. Any input would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok, you've got the timing lined up - first big hurdle crossed. It's likely that drew the battery down too far and is making starting difficult. Get it recharged first, and then dial in the startup fueling. If it won't start on a charged battery, pull a spark plug and see if it's wet or dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 IT RUNS So I started over again double checking everything. I went to test mode on ignition and fired off each coil to make sure they corresponded with my firing order-----oops. I had 3&4 coils mixed up. I must have got my wires crossed from the 3x board -easy fix! I tried starting it again with my #1 cylinder angle at 280, she wasn't getting it--but I didn't smell fuel. So I pumped the crap out of the pedal to make sure i had fuel and bang--she started. It idled pretty well, but I can tell my timing is not where I like it. One thing that had made getting my timing right is that I have an advance light- It just adds confusion when trying to making sense of your timing. I basically ran out of time to mess with my timing, but I know I can get it. I will tweak my angle degrees until things match up exact. It was assume to hear the engine run after all this work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Ok, you've got the timing lined up - first big hurdle crossed. It's likely that drew the battery down too far and is making starting difficult. Get it recharged first, and then dial in the startup fueling. If it won't start on a charged battery, pull a spark plug and see if it's wet or dry. Timing is in the ballpark, but I will get it. I am running carbs so no fuel settings to mess with. I was getting to wonder if my fuel pump was running during cranking(hard to hear), but guess it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I did realize after getting the car started I had no Tach-on my car. Didn't even think about it until now. Looked briefly at the megamanual but didn't see much to address this. Back to the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstonusmc Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I tried to use an MSD tach driver with limited success. I eventually modified a 95 Maxima tach to work with the dash and I love it. Just need the later speedo with the digital odo. I ran carbs for a little on my setup to get things worked out with the trigger and coils. I just used the MAP sensor for load. When I dropped the l28et, I just added more wires for injectors and temp sensors, easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 So there's no way to get the stock Tach to work? Didn't plan that very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm using a msd tach adapter. If you search msextra.com, there are some posts that describe how to build one using a relay coil to provide the flyback voltage spike needed to drive the tach. I've never done this, but others have had success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstonusmc Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Maybe its because I bought it used. I really ran it just as a gap filler till I got a more modern tach anyway. It worked for a couple days and crapped out. I was going to go with the standard 5" autometer tach and speedo, but that would have been a $500 combo. I got the Maxima cluster, which the tach is directly compatible with the MS3X tach circuit and the speedo is running a Q45 speedo sensor which comes with the correct gearing for the 3.54 gears and the output from my speedo feeds the N2O input on MS3X. Not bad for about 100 in hardware. The needles are rock solid a decently accurately, with about a 2% error on both. And another key feature is the backlighting, which is what I hate the most about stock gauges is the lighting. So yes, the stock tach can work, just with some extra hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I've found that the stock tach is dead on accurate, at least on the 77 and 78s. I tested with the Crane Hi6 tach test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 So a tach adapter will work on an early 71 tach? So what does the Tacho wire on the 3X board do? Not sure why I am having an issue finding info on this, but I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The early tachs "watch" current flow on the positive wire to the coil, as I understand things. Either a threshold current or voltage rise and drop needs to be reached, I assume. Somehow, you need to get similar action on that wire. There's probably a way to do it using resistors and/or re-wiring or another circuit from MS that follows cylinder firing. The later tachs, like the 280Z's, follow the action on the coil negative wire. Probably just voltage rises and drops past some trigger value, since there is a hefty resistor on the the tachometer wire circuit in a 280Z. Get in to the principles and you might be able to fake something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks Zed, that helps. I was reading that the early tachs operated differently and wondered if Sam was using a 280z tach with the tach adapter for that reason or just that he has that year car. I think using a COP system complicates this for me too. I know this isn't a big deal, but it did dampen my party of getting my engine running. Don't really want to drive the car without a tach to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Found this little obscure thread after much searching http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/electrical-s30/36969-converting-four-wire-tacho-current-driven-electronic-tacho.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yea,my cars are all 77-78 280Zs. I'm not familiar with the 240z tachs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Not enough time to play. I started it up again and this time(just danced around like a fool the first time) I decided to actually look at the laptop to see if my gauges looked like they are reading what they should. Temps looked good for coolant and air. But for some reason my car temp gauge stop working. I didn't mess with it because I am taking temp from a different location-weird. The MAP gauge seemed very responsive, which I believe is good- reading 60KPA during idle. Most importantly my rpms seem rock steady. My AFR's didn't match up though. In car gauge was reading piggy rich around 10.3 at idle. MS gauge was around 13-- which is where it was idling before I started this. Of course now I am running my wideband grounds thru the MS. I didn't get a chance to separate the heater and gauge grounds on the wideband, maybe that's the issue. I believe I have my timing synced. I had my timing locked in at 20 and my timing light concurred. I might be ready to put in some timing tables-scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas461 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I had problems with my tach as well when I switched to electronic ignition. Brian Laine makes a great box to convert darn near any signal to something our old tach's will understand. It's not horribly expensive and he is the nicest fellow. http://www.technoversions.com/TachMatchHome.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 So I had 2 hours to play with too much I wanted to do. I decided to try and sync up my wideband reading. Well in 2 hours I managed to have no reading in my car and erratic reading in Tuner. The only good thing that happened was that I changed over my timing to the generic table 1 on Tuner, and the engine sounded fantastic!! I almost forgot that I switched over from the fixed timing so when it started it sound different right away. It's not until I looked at the timing gauge did I notice. So with a little apprehension I stabbed the throttle a couple of times - man did it sound good. What that tells me is that not much has changed as far as how the engine runs and that any crazy gauge reading should be scrutinized-like the AFRs. Can't wait to drive her again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Well had to reprogram my Innovate wideband to put out a wideband signal to both outputs. Now everything works -except the tach at this point(car tach) All inputs from my MS are rock solid- car idles as perfect as it use to with my ZX dizzy. I have already removed the dizzy and coil and all wires. This has really cleaned up my engine bay. I still haven't driven the car yet- it's flooding around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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