SleeperZ Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm not sure why you think power "estimates" based on a drag time slip are not accurate. They are far more accurate than dyno variation in that you are guaranteed to be making the minimum power to move your car to a certain velocity within a certain distance and time. That is very exact physics and is not subject to variability. Weight is known, velocity and distance are known precisely, there is no guessing how much power is being produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 A couple of facts the dreamers may like to consider. One, car manufactures have to abide by strict controls as to the actual engine power realised on a dyno that they can advertise. It's rubbish to in effect to say that such controls are ineffective or inaccurate, can anyone imagine that a car maker would tolerate that? Yes or no. Two, another ignored criteria, please explain how some back yarder can get more power per liter out of an old engine by changing a cam and so on than a modern manufacturers can out of highly developed performance car engines. If you can then do tell. Unbelievable that people would believe their local tuner, who has a business to run and cannot afford to look inferior compared with the competition, over whats involved by those who actually design and create engines in the first place. Man, those guys know nothin, I'll just do a new exhaust, whack in a proper race cam and show those dudes how it's done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) A couple of facts the dreamers may like to consider. Oh. I'm putting the popcorn away to jump in now... One, car manufactures have to abide by strict controls as to the actual engine power realised on a dyno that they can advertise. It's rubbish to in effect to say that such controls are ineffective or inaccurate, can anyone imagine that a car maker would tolerate that? Yes or no. Do you know what the controls are? In the 70s we have manufacturers claiming 400HP from shitty SUHC carb V8s. They did this with race pipes, no accessories, no cats, etc. So when it was in the actual car, it made less. A lot less. Nowadays they are required to setup the engine as it is in the production car. They still use engine dyno numbers, however. The point is, it was to keep the manufacturers honest, not the dynos. When individuals mod a car and dyno it, there's usually video proof of the setup in addition to mods lists. What's the problem? Two, another ignored criteria, please explain how some back yarder can get more power per liter out of an old engine by changing a cam and so on than a modern manufacturers can out of highly developed performance car engines. If you can then do tell. Easy. Performance car engines are mass produced, reliable, come with a warranty, and are designed with a specific performance level in mind with the budget given, noise and comfort levels, and in combination with the rest of the car's performance. When a "backyarder" decides to stick a huge turbo on an engine, he risks reliability for a few more HP/L. That's if we're talking about peak HP/L, which is a pretty much meaningless number. What you wanted was some broad powerband. The problem is that people came in this thread showing cars with big top end power. I don't think anyone claimed to have met your requirement, they were just misunderstanding your original request. That said, while it may not be possible to get the powerband you want out of the VG30E, that doesn't mean that no "backyarder" can ever exceed the performance level of a stock engine. Us "backyarders" aren't trying to say we're smarter than all the snobby engineers at Nissan, we're just more willing to risk reliability, driveability, noise, etc. to get more power. Unbelievable that people would believe their local tuner, who has a business to run and cannot afford to look inferior compared with the competition, over whats involved by those who actually design and create engines in the first place. Man, those guys know nothin, I'll just do a new exhaust, whack in a proper race cam and show those dudes how it's done Again, the people who design engines do so with very strict constraints. A better comparison would be the engineers for GT2 or F1 engines. Edited May 22, 2015 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villeman Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) wow. thanks for the entertaining read. I have to second that it makes a huge difference if an engine is aimed to make 100.000 k reliably or an unknowable mileage with a bang. It´s classic design of components, you have a standard deviation of when your engine normally blows up (manufacturers test´s ) and you mulitply this with whatever you want to have in terms of "safety zone" and reduce power (or increase build quality) till your engines match this safety zone. This is more power lost than 1 PSI boost ever will produce. If you on the other hand only care about ONE engine and NO target mileage it should survive, then it´s a completely different game. and yes, the dragracing time-calculation is ok, it will just give you a MINIMAL HP, expecting no losses by friction by tires or air-drag(or you need a well known cw value with spoiler etc) and a perfectly running engine (termodynamically speaking). Basically an inertia-limited acceleration of a pointmass with the mass of the car, and every deviation from this can only be that actual HP is higher. Edited May 22, 2015 by Villeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeauty84ZX Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A couple of facts the dreamers may like to consider. One, car manufactures have to abide by strict controls as to the actual engine power realised on a dyno that they can advertise. It's rubbish to in effect to say that such controls are ineffective or inaccurate, can anyone imagine that a car maker would tolerate that? Yes or no. Two, another ignored criteria, please explain how some back yarder can get more power per liter out of an old engine by changing a cam and so on than a modern manufacturers can out of highly developed performance car engines. If you can then do tell. Unbelievable that people would believe their local tuner, who has a business to run and cannot afford to look inferior compared with the competition, over whats involved by those who actually design and create engines in the first place. Man, those guys know nothin, I'll just do a new exhaust, whack in a proper race cam and show those dudes how it's done You are seriously confused when it comes to modifying engines and making power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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