Connor280ZX Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Alright, i've made some posts here and there about cams, exhaust parts, clutches, etc, and found that i can't really work in those departments without spending a whole lot of money, risking smog failure, or risking breaking something. Now im cutting to the chase here: Without tampering with the engines internals, V8 swap, Turbo-ing, or wiring up a new ECU, what can i do to get more power out of this car? Tweaking sensors? Using different brands of parts (Like Champion vs NGK, or Bosch vs Denso)? Throttle bodies? Ignition systems? If heard of some Throttle Position Sensor modification that could be done that increases HP, but i'd rather hear it striaght from the pros. Those are just some examples, but please, throw what you know at me. My goal here is to run low to mid - 14's. ***Here are the specs on my car: 1982 S130, K&N air filter, Crane cams Ignition Coil (25K Volt), Catback MSA exhaust, NGK Iridium plugs/plug wires, rebuilt dizzy, Timing advanced to 10BTDC, Adjusted the AFM 4 teeth CCW to correct rough idle, Crappy EXEDY clutch, and its got 4lbs off of the flywheel. *The Drivetrain is all stock, 5 Speed Nissan tranny with the R200 3.90 open end. General Alitmax 205/70 tires on stock rims. *Suspension is upgraded. Urethane Front-end bushings, KYB struts. Rest of the suspension is stock. *This is my daily driver, so i would perfer not to strip my interior. Compression numbers: 183-181-184-180-186-184 (Dry) Edited October 27, 2014 by Connor280ZX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Get it running in a perfect stock condition - valve adjustment, distributor advance curve, plug gap and indexing, send the injectors out to RC engineering for cleaning and balancing, test the entire engine wiring harness, test all the sensors to be sure they are in spec, fix all the oil, fuel, and vacuum leaks, fix any intake and exhaust manifold leaks, check valve spring pressures, etc. If you make sure its in perfect stock condition you will more power then most of the folks who mod a poorly running stock engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 Get it running in a perfect stock condition - valve adjustment, distributor advance curve, plug gap and indexing, send the injectors out to RC engineering for cleaning and balancing, test the entire engine wiring harness, test all the sensors to be sure they are in spec, fix all the oil, fuel, and vacuum leaks, fix any intake and exhaust manifold leaks, check valve spring pressures, etc. If you make sure its in perfect stock condition you will more power then most of the folks who mod a poorly running stock engine. Got the valves adjusted two months ago, but can you explain to me what the ''Distributor advance curve'' is? What is the best way to find vaccum leaks? My spark plug gap is at .044 +/- .01, do you reccomend this gap? I may be due for some injector work. Mine are the 31 yr old original ones, and the hoses are starting to crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 What John C said +++++!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Literally just what John C said. I had my engine rebuilt to pretty much stock specs since I got my ZX with a spun bearing. Only thing other from stock was 1mm oversized pistons and a thinner metal head gasket. Other than that, it was stock EFI, cleaned injectors, I went through the wiring with a metal brush, and replaced servicable components (dizy cap and rotor, plugs, sensors etc.) I removed the fan from the engine and ran two electric fans with a shroud. I had a fidanza flywheel. Cleaned redid all the rubber fuel lines (went SS in the engine bay). I've had 3 other people with NA ZX's drive mine and they said it pulled like crazy and didn't break up like there's did. Well they had 150k motors covered in oil with duct taped vacuum leaks. Other than that it was lighter than their ZX's also. I don't think you'll beat that civic unless he has a passenger and your car is stripped to the bone. Try and get a higher ratio diff if you want to accelerate faster. Try reading through my build thread to get an idea of what I did to my Z pre turbo. Edited November 13, 2013 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Download the factory service manual. Links to it are all over this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 RC engineering is in Torrance, Which is roughly 350mi from where I live. How long would my car be out of commission while my injectors are in? How long does it normally take them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Call them and ask. Stop asking us to spoon feed you. Do the work yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Call them and ask. Stop asking us to spoon feed you. Do the work yourself. Alright, alright. Jeez. Talked to a guy at RC who said upon my injectors arriving at thier shop, that they will have them back to me within 24 hours, which is actually pretty impressive. Anyways... What i've been having a hard time finding out is if these EFI systems are "Dyno tunable" And yes, i have done some research to find out if this is possible, but i can't find a solid answer. So now i am kindly asking if theres anyone here who has ever had their 280Z-ZX "Dyno tuned" And no, i havent forgotten about my electrical connections. I am going to clean those up before i proceed with what i have stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I'm not as experienced as most of the guys on here, heck I've had many abysmal failures because I forgot to check something. I promise you though it has all been covered, I have seen it. You would have a hard time tuning the stock system, You might want to check into megasquirt. Use google it's your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) This thread covers most of what you need to know - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/95316-braaps-l6-efi-induction-advice-and-tips/ The early EFI systems don't use a an EPROM chip that can be reset with new values. They don't use any type of "chip" at all, only a few individual transistors. The computer is locked in to whatever it was set to when soldered together at the factory, plus/minus whatever drift has occurred due to component aging. The two main things that you can tune are fuel pressure and resistance in the water temperature sensor circuit. The first can be adjusted leaner or richer, the second richer only. Edited November 14, 2013 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) This thread covers most of what you need to know - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/95316-braaps-l6-efi-induction-advice-and-tips/ . Wow, that really is some great info. I wonder why I haven't seen that thread before... Definitely a lot to think about. Thank you for letting me know about that thread. Edited November 15, 2013 by Connor280ZX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Again, do not do anything recommended in Paul's (BRAAP) thread until you get your engine running perfectly in STOCK condition. You need a good baseline to tune from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Again, do not do anything recommended in Paul's (BRAAP) thread until you get your engine running perfectly in STOCK condition. You need a good baseline to tune from.Yes, I agree. I've replaced just about all my sensors, but I'm going to replace the vaccum lines as well. I'll clean up all the electrical connections while I'm at it, then I'll send my injectors to RC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 My stock L28 spun 147 on a dyno. The 1/4 mile times say "more" (15.50 @ 89.XX) So tune till you hit that point...call it your "baseline" and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 My stock L28 spun 147 on a dyno. The 1/4 mile times say "more" (15.50 @ 89.XX) So tune till you hit that point...call it your "baseline" and go from there. 147 HP to the rear wheels on a stock 1980? That's nearly 30 HP over factory specs. And you completely achieved this power just by tuning up the car very thoroughly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) I bought the car from a lein sale in San Pedro for $100. I could not get it to smog...mainly because the but splicing in the harness... I pulled the engine, and put an EFI System on it that was sitting in a box that came off a 1976 280Z 2+2... I think it ran, not really sure but it was free. While it was out, it got a new 15# flywheel! and clutch. It runs a distributor out of the first 280Z in the Pyrite Pick-A-Part I found, connected to the transistor box that was in the car when I bought it. The stock cast iron manifold was put on, and an MSA down pipe was used to mate it to the existing crush-bent 2.5" exhaust that is fairly crushed from bottoming... It has two mufflers, and is quieter than stock. I had a CAI on it, but didn't like the hissing at low speeds. I put the stock air cleaner back into the car. It is a full second faster than most 76 Coupes, which run 16.50 in the 1/4 mile. Anybody at the San Antonio ZCON saw the car make 26 passes and run the AutoX. The guy in the shiny 76 Coupe that ran against me over 12 times and started swearing at me because his shiny, bolt-on-beauty couldn't beat me....well maybe he needed to do like John C says and take some direction and time making everything works as it should. I put nothing into it, just time and attention. I don't know where you get your numbers that 147 is 30hp over stock, a properly tuned L28E bone stock should spin the dyno between 120 and 150. An L24 100 to 120. When I got the car it had triple Webers, a header hooked to that crushed exhaust with ONE muffler, and some racy wires that leaked voltage like a sieve as when I changed them it was like night and day...but still only had 87 HP to start with. Made all the right noises, was loud, drew attention...but just didn't have any real power. After bringing it back to EFI Stock, it had loads more torque, was quieter, got 2X the gas mileage, and was able to be driven at throttle openings BETWEEN idle and WOT. I took off everything that made it "fast" and went faster. In my experience, a new set of plug wires and timing check gains you more horsepower than any of the garbage bolt ons you can buy. Thing is, it doesn't cost a thing. And there's no money in selling you THAT... so helpful shop guys will point out all sorts of things for you to waste your money on. If you aren't spinning a MINIMUM of 120-125HP on your bone stock L28E, you need to look what you have wrong that is costing you power. In my case it was a header, triple webers with unknown jetting, plug wires, TPS adjustment, AFM boot leaks, etc etc etc... In fact, some people objected to the number as it was more than their L28ET was making...and that's just sad! But the 1/4 times don't lie! Edited November 16, 2013 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 Wow, that's more than impressive, Tony. I'm going to start working on my car today (electrical connections and vac lines). Where have you dynoed your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Don't overlook weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor280ZX Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Don't overlook weight.Would an aluminum driveshaft do me any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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