Nate SERE Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I am looking to upgrade the cut springs and blown shocks that are on my 280z. It is too low right now as it rubs terribly on the flares and scrapes on everything. I will be driving the car 80% as a daily drivers, and once a month at autocross. I am looking at getting the tokico hp series shocks and springs. This should raise my ride height about an inch, but still be 1 inch lower than stock. For $600 it seems like a good deal vs going with the eibach lowering springs and getting a decent shock as well. The other option is getting coilovers, but I really dont ever see myself taking the time to adjust them once they are on. I want something simple as I will be driving my car to the track for autocross days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrada42 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm in the same boat. If I do coil-overs, I'll set them once and never adjust them again. I don't plan on track time, so I'm probably going to go with some quality springs and shocks. I think, and it's only an opinion, that I would rather invest the money in freshening up my various suspension joints and good tires then spend $1000-2000 for a complete coilover set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhm Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 If you don't ever see yourself racing much, then I'd agree that you will probably not need coilovers. I used the Tokico springs and HPs for three years (combination of street and auto-cross) and was very happy with them. They provide an excellent mix performance and comfort. There are many low-budget techniques to further improve performance, like slotting the holes in your strut towers for a tad more negative camber and using the earlier strut top insulators to lower the rear approx an inch. If you still have the stock squishy rubber bushings in your steering and suspension, poly busings are an extremely cheap way to tighten up the ride and handling. If you do decide to get more serious about racing your Z in the future, you will undoubtedly decide that you need more a more performance-oriented setup. The good news is that you don't have to spend a fortune to do it. Used coilovers, springs, shocks, sway bars, etc are always available for much less than buying new. Hope this helps -- happy motoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate SERE Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 I ended up getting these and new bump steer pacers. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOKICO-HP-SERIES-SHOCKS-SPRINGS-COMBO-75-76-77-78-DATSUN-260Z-280Z-/251584891211?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A280Z&hash=item3a93a0c94b&vxp=mtr I'll post before and after pics when I get them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMG Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'm in a similar predicament. Your impressions, install pics etc would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I used to be in the camp that coil overs really were too much for daily use, but modern coil overs can be pretty comfortable for street use, and a well built coil over will really make you faster on course. With that said if you don't plan on racing much, and you don't plan on lowering the vehicle too much, it probably is a lot of money to invest, money that could be spent elsewhere. Just because you have all the adjustably also does not mean you have to use it all the time, but it really can help if you notice something down the road. After I trimmed my 280z springs for my 240z I noticed the spring settled more then I thought, if I had coil overs I would just have to raise it back up. Now I have to either order another set of springs or just deal with it. Luckily my combo is tried and true, but if you found your springs were a little stiffer then you thought, being able to adjust the dampening would help, and if you add or remove quite a bit of weight (tire, passenger, cage) being able to dial dampening can really help with over dampening/under dampening. I suggest against eibach springs, they are progressive and can be quite bouncy. The 280z tokico springs are linear and a good rating. A little on the softer side but that means a nicer ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zster Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 A few years ago my coilovers cost $400 with springs. Not difficult to install, huge choice of spring rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMG Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The tokicos being linear means you can cut half a coil without affecting it as much as a progressive spring correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate SERE Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Should have everything here on Wednesday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 A few years ago my coilovers cost $400 with springs. Not difficult to install, huge choice of spring rates. Let's be honest. The springs and perches may cost $400, but unless you can weld everything yourself, the total install cost for a new coil over package is over $1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I agree you can do a lot to improve handling without converting to coilovers. The real problem the S-30s have is lack of adjustments. IMO the only way to add enough caster and various adjustments up front is with full aftermarket front end. That often includes coilovers in the kits. You could use the extra money saved on the Tokico HP kit and go with a lower control arm/TC rod combo that will allow a lot more caster up front. Edited July 20, 2014 by bjhines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The tokicos being linear means you can cut half a coil without affecting it as much as a progressive spring correct? Yes, should not really affect them at all, if you cut too much though you will have to set the spring every time you jack up the car. That's one of the reasons I am looking at coil overs having to go around to each corner afterwards is kind of a chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Cutting springs definitely affects spring rate, no matter whether they're linear or progressive. When cutting a progressive spring, the amount of spring rate change is dependent upon which coil you cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes, should not really affect them at all, if you cut too much though you will have to set the spring every time you jack up the car. That's one of the reasons I am looking at coil overs having to go around to each corner afterwards is kind of a chore. It's really not that much of a chore. It adds, at most, 2 minutes to a job. Coil overs are nice, but unless you are racing or are after a slammed look they are the last thing you need to modify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) EDIT-- nevermind. Didn't read. Edited July 22, 2014 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Cutting springs definitely affects spring rate, no matter whether they're linear or progressive. When cutting a progressive spring, the amount of spring rate change is dependent upon which coil you cut. My terminology was incorrect, I did not mean "not at all" I should have said "not very much" I hope it is alright if I drop some math for my reasoning, I know that you are fully aware of this as you have in the past educated me, so it would be nice to have someone glance over my reasoning. k = (Gd^4)/(8nD^3) k =spring rate G = modulus rigidity n = number of active coils d = spring wire diameter D= coil diameter The value we will be changing will be n, from pictures it shows 11 coils, and since the top and bottom coils are not necessarily part of the active coils we can say either 10, or more likely 9 active coils in the system. Removing 1/2 a coil would change the number down to 8.5 and 1 whole coil would be 8. G, d, D all stay the same, our variable is n and k Solving one side for in terms of G, d, D we get n*k = (Gd^4)/(8D^3) If we use the supplied spring rate of 185lb/in using a roughly estimated value set from above of n = 10 (math is easier) coils and k = 185 we get 10 * 185 = (Gd^4)/(8D^3) = 1850. Modifying that to solve the rate difference, we get k = 1850/n Thus if we remove 1/2 a coil we get k ~195lb/in Change - original / original * 100 = % change (195lb/in - 185lb/in) / (185lb/in) *100 = 5% Not all that much I think statistically insignificant in a very rough kind of way (5% cutoff) Granted if we used the active coil number of 9 we would get a 6% change to 196 for 1/2 a coil removed and 208 if we removed a whole coil a 12% change, which starts to make a difference (statistically) It's really not that much of a chore. It adds, at most, 2 minutes to a job. Coil overs are nice, but unless you are racing or are after a slammed look they are the last thing you need to modify. Oh I agree, it is not the end of the world, but I just have reservations of sticking my hand in-between the wheel and the fender to settle the spring. Pretty sure it is unjustified, but it seems like a good way to walk away without hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Oh I agree, it is not the end of the world, but I just have reservations of sticking my hand in-between the wheel and the fender to settle the spring. Pretty sure it is unjustified, but it seems like a good way to walk away without hands. Is it possible to zip tie the top of the spring to the top hat? That's what you do on coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate SERE Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 This could be an issue for me since when I drive into my parking garage, I go up a steep hill and I have my tires come off the ground. Will this affect my springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Is it possible to zip tie the top of the spring to the top hat? That's what you do on coilovers. I drilled some holes in the bottom to zip tie them down there, but even with heavy duty zip ties they seem to pop up at a weird angle, they don't fall out of the perches which was a big fear of mine, but I still have to drop the car until the springs are under a bit of compression and force them in place. Honestly it is just a bit of a hassle. When I had my alignment I had to take my jack as they would not set the springs (I don't necessarily blame them). I imagine a spring cup or an extension on the top spring perch to guide them in place would solve the problem pretty easily or droop limiter straps would probably cure the problem as well, but I really do want to revisit the rear end to build and install adjustable lca's and my subaru diff, so I figured might as well start saving/building parts for it while I can. This could be an issue for me since when I drive into my parking garage, I go up a steep hill and I have my tires come off the ground. Will this affect my springs? If you don't cut them they don't have any slack so not a real issue, I want to say I cut quite a bit out which caused my problems. Definitely need to roll the car around a bit after each adjustment. Our cars have quite a bit of droop though, that has to be a killer hill to get one of the wheels off the ground completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate SERE Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's a steep approach angle. I teetertop on 3 tires. Have to have speed or back tire gets stuck up in the air and spins. No lsd for me yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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