texis30O Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I am still interested in this project, so much so that given the time that it will take to iron out all production issues I could have cash in hand for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nite_Grind Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Bookmarking. Just wanted to share a thought. 10K is not much at all if you think of it, even to a poor S.O.G like myself. I came from a Honda scene and I've spent that amount roughly on a 96 4dr civic within 1/2yrs of ownership. Not bragging, by no means, I have no right to, nothing to prove; just saying 10K is attainable. I read this thread jazzed up, then the price hit, interaction dropped, but I'm still jazzed up? why? because that's better than the OSG 35K....So if putting a side some money gets you to your goal, do it! Prep for your Dual cam head now, and in a few years you'll be ready. Yeah, a fews years you'll be ready, but at least you'll be ready! Let's not allow anymore research and technology and hardwork fade away for nothing. The day it's no longer available, the masses will pop up WTB ASAP 15K in hand . Shame. Same way a 800 civic cluster now resales for $2400+. Now my grade level math allows me to calculate that as a 300% mark up? I wish this the best, I wish I was not committed to any other projects, I'd be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Would you be doing headers for the set up as well? Equal length long tubes? I could get the shop I deal with to make some if push came to shove...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) This was envisioned as a kit build. The basics like head, cam, rockershafts, and intake were provided...leaving the builder to finish sourcing the part trim level so desired The head likely would at most have been block machined, maybe have valve guides and seats installed but that's about it... The idea was to keep the people doing the build free form a tethered group of parts they may not want. The stock VTEC profile cams, and stock junkyard K20 parts should net very impressive gains... The bore is optimal at 86-89mm...so flat tops or maybe,... Headers as Derek Mentioned might be made cheaply from similarly bore-spaced existing units... But tubing is available from Burns Stainless, as well as header design assistance when you buy their merged collectors, so... Edited October 9, 2014 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 To build on what Tony rambled on about:) I was hoping a minor cottage industry would sprout up around the head. I do the minimum machining to ensure quality then it gets taken from there. I'm hoping as soon as I have a running head there will be more interest, and some of these blanks fill in. I have my hands full just producing the head and associated castings so if someone down the road want's to produce headers for the head then they will most likely be the person who makes the headers and people will buy from them. I posted this earlier but I'll post it again My plan for the exhaust is a little more convoluted. L6 block on engine stand, Mount P90 on block, bolt on header and fixture it to the side of the block. Remove header and p90. Saw flange off of header. Mount new head on block and return header to fixture. Manipulate tubes with heat and fabrication to match new flange and weld. Being as I'm poor I'm choosing to mod a set of existing headers. If I had deeper pockets I would go custom. I had enough money to buy the used honda parts I needed off of ebay. I could have saved a bunch by hitting up some machine shops for cracked complete heads. These are sweat equity dual cam heads. If someone wants a turn key head then this isn't for them yet. And may never be. If someone want's to buy castings and turn them into a turn key head and sell them all the better. If I had thought this all the way through I never would have done it so be glad there all these loose ends:) Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-E Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Funny how accidents make the world better eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHANTOM-POWER Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi, Derek. First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing this project with us. I was just wondering since you are going to have custom cams made, is there a way of building some adjust-ability into the stock Honda pulleys. Something like multiple key ways or even a flanged adaptor with slotted bolt holes. Ahmed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-E Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Pretty sure he's not providing any of that, so it would be up to you to get either stock gears or adjustable aftermarket ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing this project with us. I was just wondering since you are going to have custom cams made, is there a way of building some adjust-ability into the stock Honda pulleys. Something like multiple key ways or even a flanged adaptor with slotted bolt holes. Hi Thanks. My head doesn't use the K20 timing setup. It uses a KA24 set. The cams will have a single dowel like the stock KA. You can buy drilled gears from a few suppliers but I'll be setting up a jig to do mine in the mill so I imagine this is something I'll be supplying. Here is a link to nico club with a how to article http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/djpantsspecrs-diy-adjustable-cam-writeup.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Pretty sure he's not providing any of that, so it would be up to you to get either stock gears or adjustable aftermarket ones... Hey you beat me too it. At least I provided a link! Edit: They get $140.00 a set to drill a stock set. I can beat that by a bit. Edited October 10, 2014 by Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-E Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Someone used to do the same thing for the Z31 world, redrilling stock cam gears for about $65, the increments were 3 degrees though, and realistically this made them only good +3 to -3, not fine tuning... As long as you can better that, say at max 2 degrees, you should be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) They list them at Jim wolf as being 2.5 degrees. That is probably all your going to get with the size of the dowel vs the diameter of the gear hub. This isn't my area but couldn't they be drilled to hit the mark your looking for? I've never made a adjustable cam gear before. Edited October 11, 2014 by Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) "These are sweat equity dual cam heads" I see a confusing title change to this thread overdue: "The Sweat Equity Twin-Cam Head for the L6 from Derek at Datsunworks" Much like Jimmy Carter, you're doing with a Custom DOHC Head for the Datsun Welfare Layabout Crowd what he did for Housing on a similar group of n'er-do-wells, layabouts, and the terminally working poor! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Edited October 11, 2014 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super X Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Derek, Awesome work so far on the head! I've just read through 7pg's and I want even more info, pictures, charts, drawings, just everything! This is a real game changer and again, I really have to commend you (and Tony D) on all you've done so far. +1 for Florida! Yea this cam thing has been tough. Not what I was expecting for sure. Have you tried Kelford Cams out of NZ (www.kelford.co.nz, www.camshaftshop.com)? I'm not 100% sure that they produce their own blanks, but if they don't, sourcing billet blanks doesn't seem to be an issue. They CNC grind all camshafts in house and if you send them over a CAE of a cam/profile you've been dreaming of they will make it. They can building any cam you like.... I mean ANY.... Like a 16.25mm lift K series cam Also, I see that you are in Central Florida. Have you heard of Mazworx out in the Orlando area (www.mazworx.com)? If you get a chance, contact Mark there and fill him in on what you are doing and where your currently at as far as development. They are one of best machine shops around and are also a Kelford Cams dealer. They might be able to help streamline the development of your cams if you use Kelford or possibly could help with one of the stateside manufactures. Mark has been intricate in getting a lot of bespoke parts produced for Mazworx over the past few years, like 6061-T6 billet aluminum blocks for the Sr20 and 2JZ. Imagine a billet L6 block w/ this head (and RR's 3.5 crank)?? Let's face it. When we were all saying I wish there was a bolt on cross flow twin cam head for the L6 we should have added "and it needs to be under $5000.00 complete with cams valves etc". Because based on the feed back I've received off forum this is the point where the decision is easy. After that for every $1000.00 you add it becomes harder and harder. The $3000-$4000 "just for cams" pretty much killed off the two that were serious. If I pull the plug now at least I'll shut everyone up about a twin cam head for the L6 and the mods can instigate a immediate ban on anyone who mentions it again:) Because a twin cam head for the S30 can't be produced in the numbers that will be purchased by S30 owners for under $8000.00. And that's if you're creative and can scrounge. $10,000.00 or more if you don't want to scrounge and would like to make reasonable power. I really want to see you finish this head development and have a completed/fully assembled head out there to showcase. I think once you have a completed head and flow chart data to support it you will easily sell out a run of these. There are a lot of high rollers all around the world that either lurk forums or just aren't online. Once the proof is out the demand will rise. Actually what I'm looking for is " if the head does this XXX and costs this $$$$$" I'm in" Not could be persuaded or thinking hard about. But IN. This will tell me what marks I need to hit. I'll put this out there.. If this head can produce 380+/-rwhp on a 3.0L-3.2L bottom end I AM 100% IN. Edited October 21, 2014 by Super X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Also, I see that you are in Central Florida. Have you heard of Mazworx out in the Orlando Thanks for that. I'll contact them. I talked to someone who was highly recommended and had a sit down meeting with the head. Unfortunately they seem to be as busy as I am and haven't worked up pricing. Called twice with no call back so that's my cut off so I'm on the hunt again. Too busy to call me back... Too busy to do the work. I'll contact Mazworx when I have more info on the cams. I'll put this out there.. If this head can produce 380+/-rwhp on a 3.0L-3.2L bottom end I AM 100% IN. I may hold you to that:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I firmly believe it can produce more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger280zx Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There are k20's in that range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There's a reason K20 was chosen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Time for an update. I believe we have a path forward on the cams. I have a steel foundry that I indirectly work with that pours 8625 alloy. Billet cams are made from 8620 hot rolled bar. I'm going to make a set of traditional style patterns of the cam cores and have them poured in 8625. I just had a very good conversation with Ron Iskenderian and he is interested in grinding the cams. He said the 8625 would be fine. I'll send him the cast cores and he'll handle the straightening, heat treating and grinding. I need to reverse engineer a set of K20 cams to get the data we need. Anyone have a set laying around they can part with? I don't have firm pricing yet but it will be considerably cheaper then the prices we were throwing around before and more in line with normal cams. So we're back on track for now and moving forward. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm subscribed! I tend to dive into projects and then get distracted, I still have a partly completed mould for a cast RB rear sump pan sitting on the shelf in the garage where it go put in 2011 prior to my disappearing off to China for 13 months... Kudos on sticking with this head and keeping it rolling! Can't wait to see the vids of the car on the track running this head. I have a lotto ticket in tonights draw... Tell you what... If I win the first division I'll send you $20K NZD from the winnings to finish up the head. If I don't win, Nada, so send me good luck vibes! Mind you, at odds of over 3,500,000:1, it would need to be a LOT of good luck vibes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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