RebekahsZ Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Thanks for those name brands on the data loggers. I will look at them. Gotta have something to do NEXT winter! This winters list is packed, but I do plan to get the oil pan baffling done this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I took a good look at the ideas from Ishihara and Johnson (http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chevrolet_LS.html) and bought there teflon scraper. For a little more than the IR piece you can get there laser cut scraper that is a lot better design in my opinion. And if you're handy (who here isn't?) you can copy the windage tray. ...... So here's what I do know. If you log the oil pressure and you go around a left hand corner for more than 2.5 to 3 seconds and you're pulling over 1.25 Gs then you'll probably end up with zero oil pressure. You can overfill all you want and run an accumulator but it won't do a lot of good giving the oil is headed upstairs first. I also found that if you run down a long straight and jump on the brakes the pressure can drop a lot. ...... Thanks for the link to the scraper. Since I am handy , do you have any details to the windage tray modifications? My experience is same with long left handers and a blip in the brake zone. I dont have data logger but have idiot light tied to the Accusump solenoid (triggers at 45 PSI) and see it blip in those same situations. RebekahsZ - idiot ligh to oil pressure is a cheap way of keeping tabs on this without a datalogger system. I dont understand why you say accumulator wont do a lot of good. The bearings dont care where the oil comes from - the pump or the accumulator. Yes the pump may still not be too happy when it gets uncovered but being a relatively low pressure gear pump shouldnt be too sensitive to cavitation issues. Being a former hydraulic test engineer then a hydraulic system design engineer, they are quite usefull devices to provide secondary energy source among other things. Should have made it clearer. The largest radius used in a turn yields the lowest "G" for that turn. Speed can be kept at a maximum in the largest radius through a particular turn. Hope this clarifies it. Still not sure what you are trying to say. Unless you are power limited, meaning you are WOT and can still make the turn, you are always trying to ride at max g fine line. Even then larger radius is longer and sometimes shortest distance beats less scrub depending on what's happenging before and after that particular turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So Cameron, are you saying that your light comes on when the accusump kicks in, and that you only see it flicker on when your in a long left or on the brakes really hard? If that's the case, I'm thinking (hoping) I should be fine with a larger sump and manual valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So Cameron, are you saying that your light comes on when the accusump kicks in, and that you only see it flicker on when your in a long left or on the brakes really hard? If that's the case, I'm thinking (hoping) I should be fine with a larger sump and manual valve. Yes. It comes on maybe a second or less. Before startup I turn on the solenoid to prelube the engine. When I do it will hold oilf pressure on the gauge for 10s of seconds so I think it works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 That's good news. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I ran across an interesting article on how to upgrade the stock type LS pumps. Take a look here, http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1366685-schumanns-sale-lsx-oil-pumps.html. One interesting item to note is that one issue noted causing problems is the screen on the oil pickup. This should be made much larger not to cause problems. I also found the external bypass interesting. Supposedly this solves the issue of running the pump at speeds higher than 6500 RPMs. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks for the link to the scraper. Since I am handy , do you have any details to the windage tray modifications? My experience is same with long left handers and a blip in the brake zone. I dont have data logger but have idiot light tied to the Accusump solenoid (triggers at 45 PSI) and see it blip in those same situations. I dont understand why you say accumulator wont do a lot of good. The bearings dont care where the oil comes from - the pump or the accumulator. Yes the pump may still not be too happy when it gets uncovered but being a relatively low pressure gear pump shouldnt be too sensitive to cavitation issues. Being a former hydraulic test engineer then a hydraulic system design engineer, they are quite usefull devices to provide secondary energy source among other things. The windage tray info can be found at the same site as the scraper. Interestingly the latest issue of Engine Masters features a 436 CI LS running one of the teflon scrapers and windage trays from crankscrapers.com. They also did some very interesting things to control oil. They completely tubed the came and added external drains back to the pan. I'm thinking that's pretty high dollar stuff but depending on what you do perhaps an option. It looks like a scraper, external drains, a good, pan, and one of Vern Schumann's oil pumps might be all that's needed. Here's a link to the modified oil pickup tube, http://schumannsdynamicperformance.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/131438/LSPSF My comment about the accumulator is not that it won't work but if the block is not setup to send oil to the mains first and you inject at low pressure it will most likely end up going to the cam and heads first and then if there's any left to the cam bearings. Where is your pressure sensor port in all this? The block I have in my shop with the big hole in the side was running an accumulator. I don't know if there's an easy way to inject oil into the lower end and block that from the top but I think that's what's really needed when the pressure drops. Perhaps this was all really bad luck but I have too much money in my motor to take things to chance. And I'm also concerned because I expect my car to corner at a much higher level than the cars that were data logged, hence the dry sump. Hope this helps, Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) I know there is a galley plug right behind the alternator, but looking at this diagram I don't think you're going to get any different result based on where you put the oil in. Looks like the cam feeds down to the mains. My setup goes has a remote oil filter so I'm plumbed in there. Edited December 8, 2014 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I have to agree with one of the comments on ls1tech.com about that pump. If you're running a screen with 1/4" holes, why run a screen at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I know there is a galley plug right behind the alternator, but looking at this diagram I don't think you're going to get any different result based on where you put the oil in. Looks like the cam feeds down to the mains. My setup goes has a remote oil filter so I'm plumbed in there. I was looking at that same image earlier and I think there's no easy way to separate the mains. I do have restricted pushrods and have been thinking about adding spring squirters rather than trying to flood the valve covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) My setup goes has a remote oil filter so I'm plumbed in there. Ditto and the pressure sensor that controls the solenoid is at the accumulator which is mounted under the dash on top of the tunnel. There is an adapter that goes where the original oil filter went then the reote filter base has an extra port on top where the accumulator feeds. This circuit also has the oil cooler in it. Edited December 13, 2014 by heavy85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Do you have a one way valve? You're supposed to according to Canton, see fig 2: http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Do you have a one way valve? You're supposed to according to Canton, see fig 2: http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions.pdf No. I bought one but never installed as was concerned with the extra pressure drop in normal operation with adding a check valve and cooler. I have the Datsun pressure gauge hooked up at the little cover plate above the oil filter adapter and see that gauge rise up close to the middle while prelubing before startup so wasnt too concerned not having one. Without the check valve you do lose some flow but since it has to go backwards across a gear pump was not too concerned given only lose oil pressure from the pump for a couple seconds and its 2 qts and will provide reasonable oil pressure for much more time than that. The only unknown in my mind is how much oil pressure do you need? With the solenoid set for 45 PSI with it only coming on for a brief period I doubt the engine sees too much less than that. I also short shift in long left high RPM turns to be conservative as well. This crank scraper stuff has me very interested. Wonder if I can remove the pan in the car ... Edited December 14, 2014 by heavy85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 May be old news but on LS tech they talk about drilling holes in the lifter trays and limiting pushrod oil flow. http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1701319-oil-drain-back-question.html http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1739295-oil-control-question.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Now this thread is starting to deliver As to the effectiveness of an accumulator, it is absolutely pointless using one without a one way valve, no discussion will be entered in to. As to oil pickup filters, have a look at one off a VG engine, certainly much better than a lot of the aftermarket ones which don't have sufficient surface area. On a personal note, my plan is to use two electric head scavenge pumps switched by the Haltech. Can't see how oil drain down cannot be a potential problem for a V8 performance engine so it will be covered, one less thing to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezguy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) May be old news but on LS tech they talk about drilling holes in the lifter trays and limiting pushrod oil flow. http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1701319-oil-drain-back-question.html http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1739295-oil-control-question.html The LS2 lifter trays fixed this issue. @ $12 it is a good idea. Edited December 19, 2014 by thezguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Forgot to mention re an accumulator with an electric valve, the switch can be mounted at the blanked off point at the front left of the block where it will be more responsive to an oil pressure drop than say where the standard oil pressure switch is located. In effect if the accumulator oil input is at the point near the oil filter the accumulator electric valve will open before a potentially damaging oil pressure drop occurs at the engine itself so maintaining oil pressure. To the extent that the accumulator has the capacity to do so of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This crank scraper stuff has me very interested. Wonder if I can remove the pan in the car ... I will be finding out this weekend, as I just got the baffle and crank scraper setup from Improved Racing Products. The quality of the parts is nice. Got exhaust done last weekend and alignment this weekend. Time to get this thing dialed in and go hit Sebring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Did the baffle have a rear-facing trap door for drag racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Road racing trapdoors are usually a diamond shape around the pickup with trapdoors on the inside. Should work fine for drag racing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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