mwn2 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 For anybody in the same boat as me: http://www.driveshaftshop.com/import-axles/datsun/datsun-510-240z-with-r180-differential-108mm-cv-conversion-kit Looks like a pretty stout kit, and compared to the competition it's one of the cheapest kits I've seen. The stub axles are rated to 1000hp so I think most of us would have a hard time snapping/shearing those (not for a lack of trying though). Just figured I'd throw it up here to help anybody out who's been browsing their options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEQUERED FLAG JOE Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 1000HP WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Beats your guy by 200. http://www.modern-motorsports.com/datsun-240z-280z-complete-cv-axle-conversion.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Only posted because the general vagueness around this topic is fascinating. Horsepower numbers, buzz words, lack of specifics. The driveshaft shop at least has some informative discussion on their web site. Hard to tell who's making what and who knows what they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEQUERED FLAG JOE Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I did call DDS and asked a few question. I asked about the material the parts were made out of and he said heat treated steel. He didn't tell me what kind of steel it was until I asked if it was chromoly then he said yes sir. I asked about the CVs what kind of material and again I got the heat treated steel. I then asked if the race was 300M as mine are he said no sir. They have higher HP numbers then my parts yet my parts are made from stronger material. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwn2 Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 SARCASM WOW. The way I see it, if a company is willing to advertise their product to be able to withstand high hp applications, then they must have a at least reasonable amount of confidence in it. Sure, they may not actually be able to work reliably at, or above, the advertised number, but for many of us running well under 500 hp, they'd probably work just fine. Just wanted to put up a link since I know there aren't very many options when it comes to cv kits using brand new parts. I've been browsing my options, so I'm just trying to make it easier for those doing the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yeah, a horsepower rating sounds impressive, but to accurately specify a CV axle, you'd want to state how much torque it can transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 $1200 for the Driveshaft Shop and $3200 from Modern Motorsports? What am I missing here... why the massive price difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) What am I missing here... Oops. Didn't follow my own advice... My mistake. 39 spline axles? Plus, one's for the R200 and the other the R180. Edited December 12, 2015 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hah! Really? A company gives out horsepower ratings in their advertising and you guy believe them? They say a CV shaft can handle 1,000 or 500 hp without knowing your gear ratio, vehicle weight, tire compound, or track surface coefficient of friction I'll give you guys a hint. It's a lie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The problem with DSS's kit is it bolts to the stock companion flange and doesn't replace the stub axle. I know they advertise when they do use 300M, so I guess they're not in this application. DSS makes good parts, so I'm sure their CV axles are just fine, but they're evidently not using the strongest material, and they're missing the stub axle, so it's incomplete. Joe, congrats on getting that kit together. That's a kick ass kit you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEQUERED FLAG JOE Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Thanks Jon, a lot of work went into this with Sean. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEQUERED FLAG JOE Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 $1200 for the Driveshaft Shop and $3200 from Modern Motorsports? What am I missing here... why the massive price difference Hi what you are missing is a whole lot of parts. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 In my field, everything you read on the Internet is a suspect, no matter how innocent or authoritative it may seem. Joe, you can count on me for a kit within the next twelve months, cause I'm pretty heavily invested in the long nose R200. I am budgeting (what's a budget?) for garage lifts this year, then it's full speed ahead on your axle kit. At 435# dyno torque on slicks I've broken driveshafts and CV axles along the way and have installed the Wolf Creek kit in the past (the same kit as the DSS kit and White Racing kit, although the I didn't do any destructive testing to determine the metallurgy). I removed and sold the $900 Wolf Creek kit because it reused most of the weak-link parts of the system and had blind fasteners that couldn't be accessed for a torque check. I knew I would break them, so I unloaded them while they still had resale value. I may add a turbo or a 150-shot next, which will increase my rear wheel dyno torque to around 600 and I'm envisioning what would happen if I broke a half shaft on my 4-5 shift a 150mph (mayhem). I can't tell if the DSS kit has new differential stubs without calling them, looks like maybe they do, which is a big plus, since that's where they break most often. I LOVE the confidence your 39-spline outer stubs give me. Please PM me before you sell your last kit, because I'd rather forgo my second lift than miss out on this kit. Question: will I save any money if I already have your 39-spline outer stubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) These axle conversations never satisfy. Weird how the endless loop continues, never really adding much. At least this round has led to the knowledge that there are nine CFJ kits out there somewhere, five for one of the S30 bodies (narrrow 240Z or wide 280Z?). Maybe one of those people will drop by and offer some real-world insight. Also, zcardepot has reported some of his manufacturing process in a different thread. Of course, some questions remain unanswered. Apparently he'll be putting together and installing a kit soon though so might have some feedback. Some progress is being made. The company that makes good parts, fills the knowledge void, and can add a feeling of security (real or not) to a purchase with numbers and results will probably win the battle. Many threads out there from people asking questions then moving on to something else when there are no answers. Anybody know what material the stock flanges are made of and their heat-treatment? Edited December 14, 2015 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 NewZed, when you say "stock flanges," I don't know what part you are referring to. When these parts break, it is typically the splined stub axles (either the hub end or the differential end) that break, not the flange. I thought I provided you with some real-world insight; what are you trying to accomplish with your car? If you can propose a testing protocol, I'll do my best to stress some axles according to your desires. But the testing protocol has to fit your desired application to really prove anything. A stock u-joint axle can handle a 800-1000hp car operated at part throttle in a steady state, so none of these numbers mean a thing unless you want to test a car that makes 1000hp at 6200rpm with 100 or so heartless clutch dumps from 6200rpm onto well-heated 10" wide drag radials on VHT so that the car totally dead-hooks. You have to buy the axles, of course. And replace the floor of the car when it rips the diff out of the chassis and drops it on the ground. But one of us is gonna have to pay to play, and real research costs real time and real money. As the song goes: "if you've got the money (Honey), I've got the time!" Otherwise, you have to know that these hp specs are just estimates or WAGs (wild ass guesses). I've already had to have my floor repaired due to differential torque being transferred into the chassis at the rear of the transmission tunnel, so from moment to moment, the axles aren't necessarily the weak link. With the way we love to bash any new product that tries to enter the market, I'm totally surprised that manufacturers even fool with our cars. I look at it as a public service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackzpeed Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Ermish racing offer this.... just to add discussion. $850.00 for R200 specific. Does not address weak stub axles though. Edited December 14, 2015 by trackzpeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 When these parts break, it is typically the splined stub axles (either the hub end or the differential end) that break, not the flange. Depends on usage. In the road race world we typically break the flange off the stub axle. Happened to me twice. I know of at least a dozen other flange failures. IMHO, that's the typical failure mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I thought I provided you with some real-world insight; what are you trying to accomplish with your car? You've only tried the 39 spline hub axles from MM/CFJ, not the whole kit. I'm just looking for the most basic confirmation like "this assemblage of parts, the kit, fits in to an unmodified S30 body and suspension and functions properly". Selling five kits and not receiving any complaints isn't much. We all know about the binding problem if they're too long, and pulling the axles out of the diff if they're too short. If they require adjustable rear arms, that's fine, just say so. And I'm just offering advice to the guys that sell the products, on how to sell more. But, on the other hand, when people get on the forum and say horsepower rating is their main criterion for choosing a product, you can't blame the manufacturers for their ad copy. Even DSS talks torque in their online articles but puts "1000 horsepower" in the ad copy. Who needs "1000 horsepower" for an R180 application (the first link in Post #1)? That's absurd. But pretty funny if you think about it. Here's something interesting though - the 1000 HP part of the original DSS link is gone. People are watching these forums and responding. Which is good. Eventually we'll see descriptions like "end-to-end (flange-to-flange) driveshaft length allows installation in all S30 platforms (240Z to 280Z) with no binding or shaft-pulling. 930 race, cage and bearings use XXXX material, with heat treatment designed for racing or high-performance street usage. The cages will explode in a drag-racing application". Something like that. I'm just a guy who reads these things, realizes they make little sense or are missing the point, and asks questions. On here mainly for the discussion right now. Joe seems like a good guy but I don't think that he's a car guy. Probably a very capable machinist and businessman making parts exactly to specification, like the best machinists do. We need to get him the right specs., and help him describe what he's selling so people will buy and be happy with what they get. Everyone wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Joe is a racer who preps mostly British cars: http://www.chequeredflagracing.net/ I would say he's a car guy. 930 CVs and shafts are not something new, so I don't know what part of that needs "proving". If they're using 300M joints, shafts, and stub axles, that's going to be as strong as they get too. As for the shafts bottoming, the 930 CVs have a lot of plunge depth. The stock Z31 shafts have about an inch and a quarter of movement as I recall. The 930 style probably has that much on each joint. Since this kit is only available for the R200, the difference in length between 240 and 280 chassis isn't a problem at all. Just put the shaft length in the middle and there will be more than enough plunge to compensate either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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