calZ Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm sorry for asking this since I'm sure it's been answered before, but I couldn't find anything through the search function. I've recently found a 240Z in the Inland Empire that I'm interested in. Reportedly no rust and a bunch of new parts to go with it. No engine/trans, but I was planning on a swap anyway. I'll be looking at it this weekend. As this will (hopefully) be my first Z-car, I'm wondering what are specific things to look at on a Z when buying it? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) The internal search function on the forum is quite poor. Use google and search restricting to hybrid will yield better results. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/103318-looking-to-buy-240z-or-280z-what-to-look-for/page-2 http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/103577-considering-buying-a-260z/ http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/118459-280z-good-buy/ http://www.zcar.com/forum/13-car-talk-forum/245562-most-common-rust-spots.html http://zhome.com <go to what to look for tab on side Basically rust. The important areas are in the threads above. If the owner is that sure there is no rust show up with a screw driver. Poke any bubbly spot you see and if it crumbles then walk away. Being in california it probably won't be too bad. If you don't know what to look for, take someone who does. If you don't have a friend that really knows Old cars (note not your new cars, or stats, actually knows and works on old cars), hire a mechanic to come out with you on their day off, or offer someone on a local z car club lunch or what not to help you look at the car. A hundred or two spent now can really save you from spending lots later. Set a budget for yourself, the "planning on a swap anyway" can really be a death trap for yourself and your project unless you budget and realize what it will take till completion. I've seen replacement engines pulled from junkyards and slotted in for $200. I've seen engine swaps running $30-40,000. Edited January 4, 2016 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyanrudger Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/5376333700.html This one? I'd be weary of that molded on kit and what's underneath it, as the rockers tend to be rusted. And, even if it is clean underneath, be mindful that fixing (see: removing) that body kit could be another set of obstacles. i'd also be weary of any seller that states "car has no rust" then posts a photo of a rusted battery tray area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/5376333700.html This one? I'd be weary of that molded on kit and what's underneath it, as the rockers tend to be rusted. And, even if it is clean underneath, be mindful that fixing (see: removing) that body kit could be another set of obstacles. i'd also be weary of any seller that states "car has no rust" then posts a photo of a rusted battery tray area... No way that car is worth $6000. You can get an unmolested 240Z for about $3000 that runs and drives. Don't make an offer. Walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calZ Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 seattlejester, thanks for the links. I know cars, just not 240Zs. I have the swap (1UZ/W58) priced out for the most part, so I'm not worried about that getting out of hand. I'll check through all of them so I know the problem areas to look at. Here's the thing. I can handle mechanicals. Some friends and I race a V6 swapped Mk1 MR2 that we caged and built entirely by ourselves. Engine, transmission, brackets, etc don't scare me. What scares me is sheet metal. Despite doing a ton of work on cars, I've never ventured into the realm of bodywork. I'm trying to avoid a situation where I get a rusty shell and have to either weld a bunch of sheet metal or pay a shop to do it for me. All I want is a very straight, rust-free car that I can get to work on. Yep, that link is the car. Since everyone can look at it, let's talk about it a bit. I agree that a shell isn't worth 6k, but a full Stage 3 Wilwood setup, new stub axles, and a full interior adds up to north of $4k when you figure in tax and shipping. If those things all check out and are the real deal, then really I'm spending $1500-2000 on a supposedly straight and rust-free shell. To me, that seems reasonable. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 As mentioned, if you are not familiar with old cars, find someone local who is, there are quite a lot of z cars rolling around and shops that specialize in old cars or better yet z cars probably have mechanics that wouldn't mind making a bit of money on the side for a relatively simple task of looking a car over with you. If you can't identify good metal vs bad metal then really find someone who can. Every person I have talked to likes to use the word rust free or "surface rust" and I have seen holes in such cars. Welding isn't too hard to learn, but it really is an investment and a hassle to do and learn especially if you don't need to. You are also in a good area as in lots of sun and little moisture so finding a rust free car should be easier so don't feel obligated to purchase right away. I would be wary of a car with grafted on panels like that. A lot of people once they get the fiberglass touch see it as a fix all and like to think of it as a solution to a lot of serious problems. Depends on what upgraded rear stub axle means. That could mean junkyard 280z stub axles bought for about $50 or it could mean a modern motorsport billet stub axle worth over $700. Wilwood brakes are nice, and a rear disc brake conversion is also nice, but it also probably means no parking brake. Is this going to be a street car or a track car? Street car without a parking brake is really inconvenient. Master cylinder looks new, hopefully the 1 inch wilwood master. That battery tray, that looks like bad metal at least to one side it is really going to need to be looked at, probably wire brushed to find out the extent of the pitting. "Paint prep" is also a bit concerning, you can see right under the cowl how it is still grey/white. That means a really poor job prepping which probably means spray cans. Once again if it is a track car or a rat, then little concern, but if you plan on making it nice and presentable, that means a lot of sanding or at least respraying to really cover the surfaces. I've honestly seen better cars for less, and I have seen worse cars for more, I would say this is more on the overpriced depending really on the condition of the body and exactly what parts were changed out. Is it worth the money, well it really depends. If you like the color and the grafted panels and plan on just finishing it and driving as is, then potentially. For me it looks like a 1000-2000$ car with 2-3000$ worth of parts with about $1500 in work I would have to undo. Maybe 4k without more information would be as high as I go. Honestly I'm with miles, I would walk away unless there is a real beaming chassis underneath. Even if there was I would still be tempted to look around. 1uzfe at stock levels and especially with a w58 behind it is going to limit the power pretty nicely so not too concerned with differentials and axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calZ Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I'm pretty familiar with older cars, just needed to know if there are any specific problem areas on Zs that I should pay special attention to. The great links you gave me should cover that. Good point on the parking brake. I hadn't thought of that. My intentions aren't to make a show car, but I want it to look respectable and last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyanrudger Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If you don't like the body kit that's molded on it and you don't want to do body work, then that's probably not the car for you. Undoing who-knows-what was done underneath that kit..ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Older cars is different from old cars. Don't let your pride block you from finding help, and not just any help, the right help. Older cars you start looking at wear parts like struts, brakes, bushings, engine health, etc. On properly old cars you look at structure, chassis, impact, former repairs, crumple zones etc. If you really want to avoid the metal work you are going to need to find someone that can tell the difference between a bent frame rail or a sagging rail from misused jackstands, you are going to want to find someone who can tell the difference between the natural wrinkles in the hatch area between the shock towers vs a tweaked one. Someone who knows the difference between a factory bead or a reinforcing bead vs soldering. Someone who can hop under the car and take a look at the backside of the area where the side skirts and the rear valence were grafted and identify any bumps and bruises. There are a lot of knowledgeable individuals who really know these cars, and in person they are going to be able to tear it apart mentally and do a cost analysis for you. Basically you want to find a car that they would want to make an offer on, one they would take home if you declined. Trust me, I've seen people start projects that are too big for them, all it would have taken was one word of advice to walk away or to really take a second look at something. I know others that have gotten amazing deals and made lasting friendships with the previous owners. We don't know based off of the pictures provided, I would say to stack the deck in your favor though. You would be surprised, someone local might even know the car or the seller and have way more insight, we've caught our fair share of shoddy workmanship on here. Plus they are an immense help in negotiations, anything they spot you can pitch to the seller to work on. If beyond that you still really want to do it yourself, make a list, and check over every part, find reference photos for what is good and what is bad and bring a clip board and pen and make good notes and take pictures and sleep on it. The consensus is that it isn't a screaming deal from what I can see, as I said, maybe depending on the axles and such a 4k car unless something really blew you out of the water, but the car does have rust, the paint prep is done poorly, and that body kit personally is pretty horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calZ Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Believe me, it's not a pride thing. Like I said, I know cars, just not Zs. Maybe I worded something wrong and gave off the impression that I'm in over my head here, but I can assure you I'm not. That said, I had planned on taking a couple friends with who are part of the race team with me, so there will be more than one set of eyes. I was really just asking if there are any quirks or problem areas that need special attention, as many cars have common issues encountered by many different owners. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calZ Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, if anyone has some links to these clean, unmolested 240Zs for $3-4k, I'm all ears. Everything I find, people want $5-6k for cars that need floorpans and doglegs replaced along with a new interior and paint. I'm far from in love with this car. I'm just going to look at it. I'm having a hard time finding these great deals in Southern California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) The statement "I know cars" is what is throwing me off. If you did you wouldn't need someone to point out quirks or problem areas, you would kind of inherently know based off knowing cars. Keep in mind, not trying to belittle you, just want you to be prepared. Friends are fine to take with you, but what you want isn't a group of friends that can see a rusty patch and say "oh we can fix that, don't worry about that," (that is what you want for when you work on it) what you want is a guy that can say "oh that is rusted out which means it is caused by x and means x, y, and z also need to be looked at" much better for negotiating, someone who can tell you "walk away" and that you would value their opinion and listen. I've taken a look and I'm not sure why, but in your area it seems like the TV bug has hit and people think they are sitting on gold. You need to find a more grounded realistic market. Keep an eye out on surrounding areas. Edited January 5, 2016 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 There seems to be a good inventory of Z cars in the in Francisco Bay area. Purchased two 240Zs there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calZ Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I simply said "I know cars" because I didn't want to list my full lifetime resume of the cars I've worked on and the things I've done. I guess if you want the list, I can give it to you. Different cars have different quirks that only pop up when you own them or get really dug into working on them. Early Corvettes had leaky cowls that would rot out the birdcage structure. Only way to see it before you take the car apart is to jam your head up under the dash with a flashlight. Swapped Mk1 MR2s tend to crack the right side motor mount. 7.3L IDI diesels go through tach sensors quite often, causing people to think they need transmission work when really the computer is just trying to shift repeatedly because it doesn't know where the hell the RPMs are. Yes, all cars rust near the sills, the backs of quarters, back of the cab on pickups, spare wheel well, battery tray, etc. I was looking for something out of the ordinary specific to these cars. If there's nothing like that, you've given me everything I need. Miles, thanks for the tip. SF is a bit of a haul for me to run up and look at cars, but I'll keep an eye out for steals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88dangerdan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5388824343.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88dangerdan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 https://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/5385158414.html Something a little closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88dangerdan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/5371323279.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88dangerdan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Might have already seen these, but just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) That's pride that is making you want to show me that list, pride isn't a bad thing, and I don't expect you to come in with your head bowed and hat in hand or anything, lord knows I didn't when I came in here. I don't want your list, and your list won't really prove anything unless it has several early Z cars on it, at which point you wouldn't be here. You have experience with some cars, you might indeed even know some cars, you don't know cars. I have a problem with that statement, that isn't your fault, you didn't cause my problem with it, but I have a real problem with that statement. It is the same vein as "I know what I'm doing," someone I knew used to use that phrase as he sped around town, he ended up killing two people while driving in the oncoming lane because he "knew what he was doing." Sorry that should have been an aside, and this doesn't merit this much enthusiasm from my part. Like you know the little intricacies of those cars you mentioned, someone else is going to know all the little things about the car you are planning to go see. I can sit here and list out all the parts, but I think I am getting more involved then necessary at this point for something quite minor in the scheme of things. Just be safe, don't take the seller at his word, check over everything, take lots and lots of pictures, get on the ground, get dirty, feel around where you can't see. Then sleep on it and if you want, share the pictures to get more opinions. Good luck. Edited January 5, 2016 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Seattlejester: Too much caffeine this morning? Watch John Belushi https://video.yahoo.com/weekend-john-belushi-march-000000303.html Edited January 5, 2016 by Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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