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DeLorean

Help confirming timing after installing head

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I have read and read and read about this topic, and there's a lot of great information available. Despite that, I'm having trouble making sure that my particular situation makes sense and is correct. I am replacing my head gasket, yesterday I reinstalled the head but ran into trouble once I went to install the cam gear.

 

The block was at TDC, with pistons 1 and 6 at their top position. The head was at TDC, based on the front two lobes being set to the "bunny ears" position. I am having a hard time installing the cam gear, the timing marks do line up, but every time I connect the chain it won't line up again or install firmly. The cam was shifted ever so slightly to try and make it easier, but I'm not sure that was a good thing. I know not to turn the crank and cam independently so I'm avoiding anymore of that. What I'd really appreciate is some help confirming I have things set properly, I really don't want to pull the head again to ensure things are right but I will if I have to. Any advice you guys can give, or threads that perhaps I missed, would be deeply appreciated.

 

 

 

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Edited by DeLorean

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The cam gear has 3 different positions with 3 different timing marks. I would use the mark that allowed the gear to be installed with the oblong grove on the locating plate just to the right of the "v" on the cam gear. The cam can be moved just as long as the timing marks line up on the gear and chain properly when installed. If you drop the chain or loose slack on the bottom/crank gear, your screwed and have to take the timing cover off to verify the bottom link/mark. This is from memory and should be verified by the manual before taking my word for it.

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did you mark the chain as well before you took it off ? I usually do that but I don't think it is necessary. I think you need to play with the chain and sprocket advancing the links on the sprocket. to get it to line up properly.  

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I checked the manual and the notch "v" should be on the right side of the oblong grove in the locating plate. The chain should have 42 links between the timing marks on the chain, but that can't be verified with out taking the cover off. You should not have to check that unless you dropped the chain. If the notch is off the left side of the oblong grove you will have to use higher number position on the cam gear.

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 install firmly. 

What does this mean?  Sounds like you're just having trouble getting the sprocket and chain lifted up and "square" on the end of the cam.  It can be difficult since it's a close tolerance and the dowel has to fit in the sprocket hole.

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I did mark the chain before I removed it, and it is also wedged. What I didn't realize is that the timing mark on the cam shouldn't line up exactly with the triangle on the cam gear, I thought those two needed to be right on top of each other.

 

Good point NewZed about my wording, I should have elaborated. The cam gear would not stay in place but this was just because the sprocket hole wasn't lining up to the dowel, as you mentioned. Late last night I made another attempt, but now that I know about the timing marks I will be revisiting it today after work.

 

I'll post some pictures again later for a sanity check, thanks a ton for the help so far guys!

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If I recall right you can see through the dowel hole to line up the dowel, if the big washer isn't in place.  You might get it started that way, then install the washer and bolt.  I think that I may have used just the bolt to hold things in place while making the final adjustment.  Just a vague memory.

Edited by NewZed

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I spent some time on the motor tonight, based on the tip about the correct placement of the timing mark and the oblong groove I shifted the cam slightly a few times to try and line things up better. I'm not sure if I made progress or not, here are some photos of where things sit. My only concern is that the marks on the timing chain I made originally no longer line up, they are one link off from where they were. The cam sprocket is on position 1, but when I try to install the gear with the chain links as they were, I cannot get the gear to mount. Move them over just one link, and it mounts up. I'm assuming I've done something wrong.

 

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Edited by DeLorean

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Did you try using a screwdriver through the timing gear to lever it up on the cam with the chain on the original link mark? From the picture on the timing marks the grove looks like it might be a little to far to the right, i.e. one tooth off. The "v" notch should just be off to the right with the edges of the notch and groove lining up or maybe over lapping just a little. It has been a while since I did mine, but that is the way I remember it and the manual's picture is the same way. Then again the could be slack and stretch from it being an old chain, but I would think the notch would go more to the left as the chain stretched because the time to change the positions (i.e. advance) the gear is when the notch is to the left of the oblong grove.

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Your wedge is probably taking up too much chain.  The driver's side of the chain needs to be straight from sprocket to sprocket.   Like it would be when the engine is running.  With the sprocket bolted on you can remove the wedge, then rotate the camshaft backward using your pliers to tighten the chain.  That will probably get you on the mark.

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If you marked your timing gear and the timing chain like I see you did and the chain didn't move on the crankshaft. Assuming the timing was correct when you took it off, the paint marks have to line up. If they don't you have something wrong or your timing chain slipped which is unlikely if you have it wedged. 

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Take the wedge out and see where you're at.  You're just wasting time until you do that.   Forget about the links, those are for new chain installation.  Nissan made things complicated by offering too many instructions.  Rotate the camshaft to get the dowel in the hole you want, then take the wedge out and check for the proper orientation of marks.  The marks are there to show if everything is correct.  If the sprocket is mounted, the tensioner can't come out.  If you need to readjust, put the wedge back in and start over.

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Ok, I will do exactly that. So as long as I mount the chain to the sprocket, the tensioner will be kept in check?

 

One additional question, since I will not be using my mechanical fuel pump any longer, can I remove the circle piece that the bolt for the cam gear goes through?

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I did try the lever trick, perhaps not as forceful as needed because I didn't have any luck. At this point the only thing I can think (based on what has been said earlier) is the chain doesn't have enough slack because I can't get the gear quite high enough to mount. All I can do is kee trying, but this seems tougher than it should be.

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the chain doesn't have enough slack because I can't get the gear quite high enough to mount. All I can do is kee trying, but this seems tougher than it should be.

You said that the sprocket has already been on, just with the dowel in the wrong hole.  Therefore there is enough slack available.  Use the logic force Luke.  

 

Turn the camshaft.

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