DAT240Z Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 I'm sorry for not being clear in my post but typing is not my strong suit I placed a car on the jack stands with the car in first gear and running both wheels are turning passenger and driver side as well as the drive shaft and input on the differential my e-brake doesn't work that well however I did pull the ebrake cable all the way up and all three still turns. Also I can turn the wheels by hand while on the jack stands with the car in gear. Newzed I appreciate you taking the time to help me through this issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) Also I'm not sure if I made this clear or not when I start the car I dont have to depress the clutch. The car will start with the transmission in any gear and runs, idles doesn't shut off. If I try to accelerate the car just doesn't move from the spot its in. Edited July 17, 2016 by DAT240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Are the halfshafts still disconnected? If the car is up on stands, put the stub axles back in and put the transmission in gear. Crawl underneath, grab both stub axle flanges at the same time and see if you can turn them the same direction. It's sounding like you will be able to turn them and you have a problem with the splines or your spider gears. You may have broken somehtng when you were trying to pound the old twisted shafts in. The problem you're having in this thread is that you're reporting two contradictory things at the same time. You say the wheels turn when they're up, but they don't turn when they're loaded, on the ground. But you haven't confirmed that the driveshaft is turning when the wheels aren't. That's the key to knowing where to look. Is the main, center, driveshaft turning when the wheels (stub axles) aren't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) I placed the wheels back on the car and took the car off the jack stands with the transmission in 1st or neutral and the wheels on the ground the driveshaft isnt turning. I tried to turn the half shafts by hand while the car was on the jack stands couldn't get a good grip on both at the same time. I tried to turn them one at a time and couldn't.I placed a screw driver in between the u joints and was able to turn the axels both turn in the same direction. I made a video of the car on jack stands hope this helps. Edited July 17, 2016 by DAT240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I placed the wheels back on the car and took the car off the jack stands with the transmission in 1st or neutral and the wheels on the ground the driveshaft isnt turning I think that your clutch is either slipping or stuck in the disengaged position. It's the link between your engine and transmission. With the car on stands there's enough drag to turn the driveshaft and wheels. With the wheels stopped by the ground,it slips. Check your clutch fork first to see if it's stuck pressed backward. If the clutch is jammed open though, the clutch pedal will require very little pressure to move. The slave cylinder rod will be extended. If it's not the clutch, then it's the transmission. Nice sounding engine. Must be a bummer to have it stuck in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 I wanted to be sure about the driveshaft. With the car on the ground I placed my cell phone under the car and recorded the driveshaft. The car is in 1st gear the driveshaft does turn. But the car doesn't move. Here's the link to the video https://youtu.be/VBCeGlpZ5ck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 If the drive shaft is spinning, and the car is not moving, then the problem lies with your diff, and/or its connection to the wheels. I recommend you remove the diff from your car, put it on your work bench remove the back cover, and turn your pinion (input) flange, preferably while trying to hold your stub axles still. This will let you see if even your pinion and ring gears are meshing properly (they probably do, but process of elimination), and will allow you to see if your stub axles' splines are engaged with the inner bits of the diff. I fear that hammering on it previously with the old stubs not going in all the way may have busted something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Took the differential didn't see any sings of damage to the gears. I did find a peice of the clip for the passages side axel in the bottom of the housing . I held onto the stub axles as tight as I could,with my son turning the flang. Both axles turn for a bit than seam like they stopped but the pinion gear was turning for a brief period . Tighten the flang nut a bit.Had my son try turning the flang again, it seam like the the stub axles turns all the time now.I don't know if that really had anything to do with the issue I having. Other than reinstalling the diff.is the a good way to tell if ready to go back in. https://youtu.be/r8tqFTihnEM Edited July 18, 2016 by DAT240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 This is a very strange thread. You're not using some sort of odd two-piece splined driveshaft are you? You had a video of the transmission end of the driveshaft but not the pinion flange end. It's still not clear that the pinion shaft of the diff will turn without at least one of the stub axles turning. You have something missing in all of your descriptions and videos, either the wheels are up or the video doesn't show the right parts. If you could clamp the two stub axles in a large vise and use a wrench on the pinion flange you'd be able to tell if the diff is broken. If the diff is broken you should be able to turn the pinion shaft more than you described. "the pinion gear was turning for a brief period". You found a piece of a clip inside? Take some pictures. Down the spider gear holes and from the back. Bright lights, in focus. Take a video from the back with the cover off as you turn the pinion shaft. Lock the stub shafts down somehow and use a wrench to turn the pinion shaft. Something must be broken but it will take someone familiar with broken diffs to know. This should be a simple thing to figure out. Don't make it complicated. Your sig says "LS1" but your video shows an L6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Here's a thought, that might be feasible - you have a broken stub axle in a wheel hub.The bearings will hold the wheel on, sitting in the garage. See if you can turn the wheel companion flanges at the hubs, without the wheel turning. This would let all of the things you've seen happen, without the car moving. It would be like lifting one wheel in a corner. The diffs need both wheels to have some resistance to motion for the diff to work right. Edited July 18, 2016 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) I have three 240z and a 67.5 SPL/2000 Roadster with solex package. My 70 240z is all stock with 54k documented miles,71 240z with a Ls1 out of a 2002 ss Camaro and the 71 240z I am working on now, I thought it was going to be an easy build now becoming a nightmare . I have not updated my profile in quite a few years Edited July 18, 2016 by DAT240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Nice. Here's a link on how the 240Z's break their axles. It's titled "STUB AXLE FAILURE". About halfway down the first page here - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/49194-differential-cv-lsd-hp-torque-r160-r180-r200-r230-diff-mount/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Here's another from a guy who broke his just tightening the nut. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/42487-rear-stub-axle-just-broke-when-tried-to-torque-nut/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Here's the original - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/5380-broken-stub-axle-danger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I placed the wheels back on the car and took the car off the jack stands with the transmission in 1st or neutral and the wheels on the ground the driveshaft isnt turning. I tried to turn the half shafts by hand while the car was on the jack stands couldn't get a good grip on both at the same time. I tried to turn them one at a time and couldn't.I placed a screw driver in between the u joints and was able to turn the axels both turn in the same direction. I made a video of the car on jack stands hope this helps. Your second video here is where it would have been informative if you could have had somebody press the brake pedal while the engine was running. You had video of the pinion shaft moving and the halfshafts. Pressing the brake pedal would have stopped the wheel flanges. Then things would have been clear, either both halfsahfts would have stopped and the pinion shaft kept spinning or only one of the halfshafts would have stopped.. The advice to remove the diff was a little premature, you were right on the edge of getting some good information.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 I plan on reinstalling the differential tomorrow morning. Conduct a test and report back. Don't know if I said this in a previous post. But last night I started the car with the wheels on the floor car was in first gear I engaged the brake pedal the driveshaft stop spinning but I was still able to rev the car up. You would think that car will stall because the clutch wasn't engage but it did not. Here's the link to a short video of this the drive shafts spinning when the brakes are applied the driveshaft stop spinning. https://youtu.be/5LxynIE2z78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 All of the ideas are out there. You've shown that the driveshaft is not firmly connected to the engine or the rear wheels. It seems to be spinning in space. The car should not have moved at all before the axles twisted, from what you've shown in your videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Well if power is being supplied to the rear and we assume it isn't a coincidental failure of the clutch system up front either a failing pressure plate or a worn clutch. Then it has to be down stream. Interaction from the transmission to the rear wheels are... Transmission output shaft to drive shaft Drive shaft toe u-joint u-joint to rear driveshaft flange rear drive shaft flange to differential front pinion differential front pinion to diff input shaft/pinion gear diff input shaft/pinion gear to ring gear ring gear to spider gear spider gear to clutch pack clutch pack to output stub axle output stub to half shaft assembly half shaft assembly to companion flange companion flange to stub axle stub axle to wheel flange wheel flange to studs studs to wheel The confusing part is that it seems like everything is moving until you put load on it, that would indicate something coming out of engagement or slipping under load. A nice thing to see would be your drive shaft video with the car on the ground if you could get another video of the half shafts under the same circumstance that would be helpful as it seems the drive shaft is spinning it would be nice to see if the half shafts are indeed locked into space or if they are spinning wildly. Of course be safe while you are doing all this don't want the car going through the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT240Z Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 A little update on the car. I reinstalled the diff. Yesterday wiggle the clutch Fork around a little bit adjusted the clutch little the car now Drive and reverse under load.I was able to back out of the garage and drive down the street. The bad news is theres a noise coming from the rear it's hard to describe but it seems like there's something back there that's it slipping. It doesn't do it all the time but enough to prevent me from putting the car on the road when it happens it seems like some gear or something and spinning and the car will stall whatever is stripped would catch again and the car will then start to roll again. I remove both halfshafts and spun them they both spun smoothly as did the flange. I did not remove the flange I wanted to verify before removing the flange to check and see if I had a possible broken stub axles .Is possible to have a broken stub axle if the flang would still spin. I try to pull on the stub axles and the Flang the see if there was something lose as well,nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 If you lock down the half shaft (get someone to stick I think a 14mm or so size wrench in the u joint area and put a pipe on it, and try to rotate the stub axle by using either a pinion or a flange holder or two lug nuts and a pipe would work as long as you don't start bending the studs on the wheel flange end, you can find out if the outboard stub axle is broken. Something spinning and catching kind of points towards a spline interface. If it was a gear interaction you would almost expect it to catch and release. As long as the chain isn't broken from the transmission and the stub axle is fine it wouldn't be surprising to find something splined in the diff being awfully worn out. Best case scenario the clutch pack would be worn. Any info on the milage on the diff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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