280Z GenV L83 Swap

[Fridge Gnome]

Hey there, there's no genV forum, so I assume this is the right spot.

I'm getting started on swapping an L83 out of a 2017 Silverado into my '77 280z. Progress will be slow as I'm working on a masters away from the car right now, but I figured I'd post what I've gotten so far. Info seems pretty scarce on these engines as well, so maybe someone will find it helpful.

I'll be keeping the engine stock and mating it with a T56.

 

Here is what I'm starting with:

 

Here is the engine and transmission, T56 is out of an 06 GTO. The L83 is a bit weird and the crankshaft is not meant to accept a manual transmission so requires a 3/8" spacer on the bellhousing (not shown, but where the gap between tranny and bellhouwing is. Apparently leaving that out will result in a broken block 😕

 

 

 

 

[Fridge Gnome]

I got the engine in today, I'm using the Dirty Dingo motor mounts and I'll be making my own transmission mount.

 

So first difference between this engine and an LS. It has connections on the back of the engine for the high pressure fuel pump. This means it can't get as close to the firewall as an LS.

 

 

Theres plenty of room in the front, so engine position is no big deal, however I assume LS engines do need to be near the firewall to allow the transmission to fit around the original transmission mounts. Since I couldn't get this engine too close. I had to cut them off. I'll likely still try to use them as a mounting point for the transmission, but the original flanges wouldn't work.

 

 

 

Once those flanges were cut, the engine went bolted in without any interference. I haven't made a transmission mount yet, so time will tell if it will be a problem, I don't think it will be though.

 

That being said, the Dirty Dingo mounts are rather high with this setup. I'm using their adapter plates to use LS mounts with an GenV engine. I'm also using the Holley oil pan, so it has quite a bit of clearance.

 

Clearance is good, but the engine sits a bit high. I'm using a camaro intake and the throttle body sticks up too high. I'm not sure if anything else will also be too high.

 

 

 

Headers will be interesting, but I'm probably not doing longtubes. The OEM manifolds won't work, but they aren't too far off, so I think I will be able to find something that works.

 

Anyway, just wanted to get a thread started to at least help me keep some record of the project. Hopefully will finish up a few more things while I'm on break.

[idahoskiguy]

Very nice work! Please keep posting your progress.

[Richard Oben]

Not using the same engine but we are using the same trans (04 GTO LS and T56)  The shifter will likely need to be changed.  Can't remember how far the GTO shifter is behind the Camaro one I used but it was a lot.  This may help with the more forward engine but it will be something to consider.  lowering the engine seems mandatory although the Datsun hood has a lot of clearance in the middle, solid 4 inches above the fender line.  Looks high in the pic.   Keep us posted, cool project, hope problem solving is fun.  I found a lot of good info here even not following the 'recipe'.  HTH, Richard. 

[Fridge Gnome]

Good to know Richard, it looks like the shifter is a little forward of where it was with the old transmission, it would work where its at with the camaro shifter I believe. I'm hoping with the GTO shifter it will be just a little further back as I'd like it a little closer to me than the original position.

 

Forgot to snag pictures of the modified mounts, but I was able to drill new holes in the engine mounts to lower the engine about an inch.

From the fender line I'm about 2.25" over, so maybe that will be enough. If not, I should be able to make a spacer to move the throttle body away from the water pump which will allow me to flip it upside down.

 

[Michael]

The reason of shoving the engine as far back (nearly against the firewall) is to improve fore-aft weight distribution.  This mattered more, in the now ancient-days of cast iron V8s.  But there is still a certain feeling of achievement and engineering-aesthetics, to get that setback to be as large as possible, even if it isn't strictly necessary.  Towards that end, have you considered cutting/notching the firewall, to accommodate the fuel-pump connections?

[Richard Oben]

Looks like the GTO shifter is about 3.5 inches back from the camaro shifter plus the 3/8 spacer.  If the engine is in that neighborhood further forward it will be close.  The 2.5 looks good too.  I wouldn't slam the hood yet but a good start.  HTH, Richard. 

[Fridge Gnome]

Here is the picture of the modified engine mounts, you can also see another reason I couldn't move the engine back. The vacuum pump flange on the LT block interferes with the mounts so the mount has very little adjustment to move the engine back on the driver side. I would assume it would be possible to modify the mount to fix this, or maybe even trim off the vacuum pump flange.

 

 

I made up a transmission mount and got it installed today as well. Its bolted to tabs welded to the frame rails.

 

Here is where the shifter sits with the GTO shifter. No interference in any gear, so I'm happy with where it's at.

 

 

 

[Fridge Gnome]

Small update, wiring harness is in. I modified the original harness based on the attached document. Grey lines are the connections I used. Not sure if it's right, but I'll try to remember to edit it if it's wrong.

 

I actually made the harness at school, while the harness was in the original state I marked the location of connectors on a cardboard box and used that as a template to modify the harness to place the ecu inside the cabin and use a new fusebox.

 

 

 

2018 Gen V l83 Pins.docx

Edited June 21, 2020 by Fridge Gnome

[DonH]

Fantastic Job so far! Ill be tackling my wire harness soon! 

[Fridge Gnome]

Quick trip home, got a little work done.

 

Clutch master cylinder went in with no issue. Nothing too exciting there. Swapped the push rod for the 280z original one and went in fine.

 

Corvette accelerator pedal is in too. Made an adapter to use the original pedals mounting points on an aluminum plate. The plate is fairly thick, so it doesn't flex. I had to space the pedal forward about 0.4" as it doesn't stick out as much as the original one.

 

On the more interesting side, I bought some 2016 camaro headers to see if they would work on the Z.

 

Passenger side needed some work, but I think it is manageable. I made two cuts along the inside of the header to let me bend the header in slightly to get it to fit inside the frame rails. I will have them welded back up. Also removed the flange. It comes out directly above the tension rod mount, but I think I will be able to cut it a little shorter and have enough room to turn the pipe and get around it. I also had to remove the plastic connection cap on the starter solenoid. to make a little extra room.

 

 

Drivers side fits pretty nicely except for the same issue of the tension rod mount. Again I think I have enough room to route around it.

 

 

 

 

[Fridge Gnome]

Exhaust manifolds are in! Modified camaro headers did the trick. Unfortunately this also means I have to show everyone my ugly welds. Regardless, no major issues in getting them made up.

 

 

 

 

 

I also installed a catch can. Due to the direct injection on these engines they are prone to having gunk build up on the valves since there is no fuel constantly washing them off. 

 

 

Going to get started on making the rest of the exhaust tomorrow.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Fridge Gnome

[Fridge Gnome]

Ok, so things went much easier than I feared. I only had one small issues in my wiring harness. I had wired in one wrong O2 sensor. I've updated the doc I posted.

 

Exhaust went in without issue. That was my first time back-purging and welding stainless. It doesn't look great, but its leak free and shouldn't rust.

 

E

 

Everything else went in fairly straightforward on the hardware side. I had a driveshaft made, dropped it in and was able to get the car moving. All in all, not much different from any other LS swap.

 

On the ecu side I had a little more trouble. When I bought the engine it was out of a 2017 Silverado, but the ecu ended up being out of a 2019 cadillac escalade. Since the cadillac was never offered in manual the engine would run, but it was always expecting feedback from the tcm and even changing settings to a manual transmission didn't help. I had to buy more hp tuner credits, but I eventually got a 2017 camaro OS installed and things worked much better. I also needed to hook up the VSS as several of the ecu tables relied on vehicle speed.

 

The only remaining issue now is that my transmission seems to be pretty worn out. Grinding in all but 5th and 6th gear. So it will need to come out and be repaired. Then I can get back on the road and tuning things up.

 

I also haven't put the hood back on yet, so that remains a potential issue, but I'm crossing my fingers I've got the engine low enough.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fridge Gnome]

One last thing, the hood just barely fits, but probably wouldn't without modifying the engine mount to let it sit lower. Maybe if the engine was further back it might be ok, but that would still require modifying the vacuum pump flange or the engine mounts to allow the engine to move back further on the mounts.

 

The aluminum foil on top of the throttle body is the room I had left. You can see the foil in a couple other spots was pretty close as well. I had to rotate one of the intake pipe hose clamps as it was just barely touching the hood.

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Fridge Gnome

[DonH]

With the CX racing Kit i was able to get the engine to sit completely behind the crossmember! Could be a challenge with the intake setup here. it also put the shifter way farther back which is great for me considering i'm 6'3" and set my seat all the way back. All in your fabrication skills look great man! Love the exhaust too. Ill be doing my own exhaust as well to get it to tuck nicely. Using the oval shaped exhaust for better ground clearance. 

[Fridge Gnome]

Maybe its time for an update. Car is doing well, mostly working on less noticeable things.

 

The transmission I had was completely shot. Most gears anywhere near the synchros were pretty worn. With the price of replacement parts for the T56 lately I decided I might as well just buy a new magnum for slightly more.

 

 

With the engine still mounted forward from other LS swaps, the F-body shifter was a bit too far forward compared to the GTO shifter. The GTO shifter was also just slightly too far back in its original location where 4th gear would hit the console trim. It looks a little sketchy, but I was able to drill new holes and flatten out some features in the GTO shifter to match the magnum shift cup and seal correctly. Original holes were plugged.

 

 

I also welded on the bad dog frame rails over my existing rails. The rails weren't terrible, but had a couple bad spots that I wasn't totally comfortable with. I installed the 240z e-brake cable in as well. Welding on some washers to work with the larger 280z mounting points.

 

 

To match the new engine, I installed some 300zxt cv axles that I found for cheap a few years ago. Since mtnickles adapter plates that don't add any extra hub thickness are no longer available I had some machined using a similar design. Also replaced the wheel bearings while I had things taken apart.

 

 

The silvermine rear brake calipers are a fairly tight fit around the cv axles. I had to bend the e brake mounting point to avoid the flange. The sway bar was also a tight fit. I had originally purchased the T3 rear sway bar but it had no chance of fitting with this setup. The ST suspension rear mount sway bar fits with the spacer on the end link shortened.

 

 

Swapped in some GTR AP3 side mirrors while I was waiting for the CV adapters to be machined. The ones on the car when I purchased it were some cheap plastic and tended to fall over if I looked at them.

 

 

Back to some genV related stuff. I didn't have a clutch sensor wired in and apparently the ECU needs to see it. Helps to avoid the ecu getting confused when the load suddenly disappears. GenV engines seem to use a position sensor rather than a switch, not sure why. Engine is running fairly well now on a 2017 Camaro OS. Still have some rev hang issues and needs general tuning, but totally driveable.

 

 

A lastly I made an airbox for my intake as I try to get things ready for some dyno tuning. First time making a fairly complicated shape from a cardboard template cutout, fairly pleased with the results.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Fridge Gnome

[DonH]

awesome stuff man! i need to make an airbox for my intake as well! 

[RustyDusty]

This is a great build thread, thank you!  I am currently swapping a 71 240Z with an L83 and a CD009.  After reading your thread, seems I have generally the same issues as you.  I did try all the factory, Holley and Summit brand manifolds with no luck.  I seen your build thread and created the manifolds after what you did - nice work BTW.  My 240 was a former small block swap and had the old square mounts, so I built off of there.  Yes, motor sits a little high and forward for my liking.  However my Serial 9 shifter lined up perfect, so will handle this issue later down the road.  The LT1 intake cleared, however I put a Holley extension on the front to push the throttle body lower and further out.  I am using the 4 core radiator which was in the car with the small block swap.  Back in the day, someone really put a lot of money into the thing.  So questions:

 

1.  What lower hose did you use?  can i get a number

2.  What would you caution me on, what lessons did you learn.

 

and thank you

IMG_3162.heif IMG_3164.heif IMG_3169.heif IMG_3173.heif IMG_3174.heif

[Fridge Gnome]

Cool to see someone also doing this swap. That makes 3 I've seen total so far including this one. Glad to see the manifold info helped, yours looks much cleaner than mine. The holley extension should help a bunch too. I cheaped out and didn't redo the pulleys, so I couldn't install the throttle body that way.

 

I used two silicone 90s and an aluminum tube for the lower radiator hose. I used MIO-MMCP-1590BK for the lower and VPE-2749 for the upper half along with a 1.5" aluminum pipe.

 

 

As for what I would look out for, it would definitely be the software and electrical side of things. I'm not sure if it has gotten any better yet, but deciphering what pin of the ecu does what is a mess since it varies between cars and years quite a bit. Tuning is still a running issue I am having. I tried to tune the car myself and having never tuned before it was way over my head with its torque based tables and driver demand. It still is way over my head. I had local shop dyno tune it and the power is better, but the throttle is still weird in its response sometimes and I occasionally have rev hang issues. Along with it cutting power when I try to accelerate up hills. The car is fun and totally driveable, but it can be annoying when I try to blip the engine and only get a little response.

 

I'm considering going for the holley ecu since it now supports DI, just to get away from the complexity of the stock ecu.

 

Heres the dyno, stock L83 with camaro headers and intake.

 

[VedemXCIX]

What clutch setup did you end up running with the T56? I'm using the same spacer as you to mount my T56 and haven't been able to confirm what clutches are compatible. Did you also have to push your Hydraulic slave cylinder forward in order to accommodate the bell housing spacer?