John Scott Posted March 31, 2002 Author Share Posted March 31, 2002 One more consideration we might not be addressing, auto or manual transmission. I remeber my 700R4 used to fill the whole underside, where my T56 has much more tunnel room. Would this require different collector positions? Turning collectors in might be beneficial for a standard, but not auto. Andy runs his exhasut along the frame rails, (right?) a standard can tuck them closer to the transmission. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 look here, http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_headerlength.asp http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/header-tech-c.htm http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/fluids/page7/PipeLength/pipe.html http://www.feuling.com/randd/articles/art11.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 First off, Dave’s headers look a lot lower than mine. Not sure if it's the angle, or what. Maybe it's because I have an extra deep tranny pan that helps hide the fact that the headers hang so low. Also (John), my exhaust runs along the bottom of the floor next to the frame rails. It looked like S&S setup the headers for the exhaust to be routed inside the trans tunnel. If I had: a) More patience A very skilled exhaust bender c) A smaller transmission (not a 700R4 like I've got) I could have routed the exhaust in the tunnel. since I didn't have any of the above three items, I needed to run the exhaust down about two inches from where the collector dumped. However, even if I did decide to run the tubes inside the tunnel, I still would have needed to bang out the floor a little to make room for the exhaust to bend into the trans tunnel. Hope this helps. -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 1, 2002 Author Share Posted April 1, 2002 Loren has another run of 1 3/4s getting ready for production. He stated he would set one up on his test engine to see what could be done in the starter area. How much room do you guys running these have around the starter? Using minis or the 93-96 camaro? Still throwing around the tri-Ys made in a modified jig to gain clearance. GOT PICTURES? We need some! Loren also said pictures of the headers in the Z chassis, especially in/ from the transmission tunnel area would really be helpful for reworking the floor clearance. He'll let me know next week what can be done for passenger side. If this fits the Z better he might just leave the jig in place for all future runs of 1 3/4s. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peternell Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 I'm in on the group purchase too, IF they fit a TH350 or TH400. I'd like the 3" collectors, but if the group goes 2.5" I'd go along. What do these custom modifications do to the $250+ price?? Anyone taking the lead on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 Originally posted by Peternell:I'm in on the group purchase too, IF they fit a TH350 or TH400. I'd like the 3" collectors, but if the group goes 2.5" I'd go along. What do these custom modifications do to the $250+ price?? Anyone taking the lead on this? Will they fit? I don't know. I don't think Loren at SS will know. I'm trying to resolve the most glaring problems with the current design i.e. ground clearance and floor contact. One of the ways to help will be changing to a 2 1/2 collector. I'm running a aftermarket T56 and want a perfect fit, too. Any of us can contact Loren for special needs. Thinking if minimal changes can be done to existing design, better for price. If we keep it simple, something he can apply to another run, price may be the same. Hasn't said yet. For a completely new jig, for example tri-y we need at least 20 orders to make it work for S&S. I've forwarded some pictures of Dewzenol's head on shot, Andy's driver side engine compartment and starter comparison. We need a picture of the tunnel area where the collectors make contact.Also, I'm not so much taking the "Lead" on this as trying to reduce my own headaches, and more than happy to pass on if its better. I've established communication with Loren and am willing to continue. If anyone wants to add to the process, research, suggestions, communication, please jump in. JS JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Are we talking about headers that would clear the rack and pinion on a zx? if so let me know. I'm in on the 20. email me if this is true ellobo97@hotmail.com thanks a million guys sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 ....Nope, this is for full lengths on the 1st generation Z, but you may want to contact Ross C about the ZX models to see what he is running... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 i've been in contact with Ross, I'm in the process of converting to the 13 inch brakes and coilovers on my car. He doesn't have the rack n pinion set up like i do, so it's a bit of a problem. Thanks for the info though Mikelly. I wish I could find a 240 near me that wasn't rusted out, I'd convert to it:) sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 10, 2002 Author Share Posted April 10, 2002 Spoke with Loren today. He said flanges for the next run of 1 3/4 havent come in so he can't check starter clearance. He's getting me a little frazzled. Said he didn't receive my pictures, then said maybe he did. I'm having to repeat all the details for the fourth and fith time. Reminding him of his suggestion to reduce the collector angle, as Rick mentioned, and going to 2 1/2 collectors. Keeps saying the headers already run close to the starter, a full size, and that some minis actually hang lower or have solinoids that protrude further than sotck. This isn't the case with the 93-96 camaro starter which is smaller in all dimensions. Rick stated plenty of room around the starter and could be changed. I asked him, if he wan't interested, or too busy in taking on this modification to let me know and we can look elsewhere. He said to try again next week. Still pushing the tri_Y design, but we don't have enough people interested. Update: THANK YOU Rick Johnson for taking the time to talk to me, measure and give a concise plan for me to present to S&S. I'll hit Loren with the exact measurements. Such minimal changes to make a really great header for the Z. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 ....It has been my experience when you start getting a lack of cooperation from a company for services you need customized, that a clear warning of failure to meet your expectations is a real reality. If worse comes to worse, I'll end up ordering the 1 3/4 block huggers from Flowtech... If this comes off and S&S comes through for us, I'll be glad to eat my crow, ketchup prefered on the side, but I'm not banking on it... John, your efforts are applauded... I'm sure it is frustrating dealing with these guys! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 Mike, thanks for the pep talk, and I'm going to do all I can to get you to eat crow, w/o the ketchup All the improvements are beneficial to the HybridZ members, Motorsport Auto, who renames these headers for their V8 swap, and the Street Rodders who the header was originally designed. Having a too low ground clearance or changing starters to a mini seems like a no brainer to me. The simple changs are raising the right side collector 1/2 inch. Raising the passenger side tubes 1".( right now over 3" of clearance to a mini starter!!) Reduce collector angle to 0 degrees. Change to 2 1/2 collector. Point center bolt down. That's it! Loren has admitted that all the improvements would be good for everyone. Lately, by the next time I call him he's lost enthusiasm, and his memory. I'm going to Fax the modifications with the mentioning of a potentially big clientele. We are 2000+ strong with most in the design, building stages. I would think SS could expect many orders once they are proven successful. I would think Motorsport would also pick up on orders. Let's see what happens. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 I have question, does any one know if the 1 3/4" full length headers fit angle plugged heads? i.e. motown 220's???? What about going to 2.5" collector, like mustang GT, the bolts could go straight across and solve floor pan and ground clearance problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 Z Chick, My 95 Corvette LT1 has angled plugs, and I'm using the S&S long headers. Pics at: HERE Try the last link on the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 I'm throwing in the towel! After a good look at Dewzenol's & Andy's pictures, I feel there is no easy solution to the full length revision for an appreciable improvement in ground clearance. Thanks for putting up with my nagging e-mails, guys! Fastfrog is going to contact Loren to confirm his findings and check the cost of a tri-Y for the die hards willing to pay the cost for a custom set. It really would eliminate the ground issue. Really don't know about the hp/tq characteristics of the design. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 John, You did your best... I'm not sure about the Tri-Y and if it will help in the HP/ torque areas MUCH over the other options out there. If I'm not going FULL LENGTH, then I'm doing the Block Hugger and NOT worrying about it. I'm thinking if I give up 10 hp, that won't KILL me. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted April 23, 2002 Author Share Posted April 23, 2002 Here's my final note, I talked to Rick Johnson again tonight and confirmed his 3" clearance to the starter. He can't remember what brand, but I guess if someone is willing to pursue this, there must be a mini starter with an offset drive gear with one hell of a ground clearance that would make these headers work. Then all you have to do is convince Loren at SS to make to changes or a custom build around this. Rick said if he ever comes up with a brand name he'll post. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 You could just remover the starter and pop start it every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog 145 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Hey Guys (John Scott, Mikelly, et.al.) Long time no talk!! So long that I got dropped off the site. It's been 3 yrs I think. The "145" is my original member # when I joined in 2000. (whaaa, boo hoo). I remember this disscussion from 5 yrs ago-Andy Bayley sent me some pics of a 1 3/4" header set up but I've forgotten if it was a one time custom job or what. HOWEVER, I discovered that Motorsport Auto is offering both a shorty 1 5/8" header (like most of us have) and a 1 3/4" full length header in their latest catalog. My ? is; does anybody know anything about their 1 3/4" header?? They claim that their ZV8 components are designed for the engine in the set back position. I am interested in a 1 3/4" header sys but don't want to do a lot of fabrication, bending, dimpling, cussing and swearing to get an acceptable fit. Please advise! Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Ok I dont know about the msa header swap but...Grand Junction is total heaven on a dirt bike! You live in a very cool place. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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