Guest Your Car is Slow Posted May 26, 2003 Share Posted May 26, 2003 ET means diddly on the street. It traps right at 100mph..which far exceeds nearly any import "racer" ive ever seen. Hell that covers even the WRX by nearly 5 mph. Id take a 14.4@100 over a 13.8@95 anyday All ET shows is traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Like Scottie-GNZ said, it is about driver, even more so with the FWD cars IMO. Those cars are quick, especially for $20,000. You also have to remember that this year's model does not have LSD. Can't wait until next year for the LSD and some good after market stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 PeteW, I'll get to your initial question in a minute, as I've done a TON of research on Hondas since we are building one for my stepson. ONG, I think you are missing the point Scottie was making. The car doesn't suck. Often times it is clearly the driver... I drive a 1990 Honda Civic (1.5L Turd) to and from work every day and There is nothing like getting the jump on someone at the light to make the next "Spot" in traffic... But that doesn't mean the guy next to me in the C5 Vette is "racing Me" or in as big a hurry... I love it when I'm at a car guys get together and you hear someone talking absolute BS about how their (Pick your favorite car to hate here) Just spanked the stranger in a Viper that will never materialize. Oh, and I know you are talking about what these guys are doing at the track... Most people I know who have gone to the track SUCK at drag racing, Myself included. Front drive cars are harder to drive in general. They actually MAKE you a better driver by learning to drive fast in them. We used to tell people this at road course events and they wouldn't believe it... But it is true. Learn to drive fast in a front drive car and you will be that much faster when you move to the Z, and smoother... PeteW, there are FAST, VERY FAST imports out there. I've recently met some folks on another site (Very similar mentality to ours) where these guys are doing swaps with Hondas and pulling some very respectable times. Direct swap is a little far fetched, but with a little pre-planning most of them aren't much harder than a direct bolt in... You just need to make sure the right trans and axles are sourced with the motor you want to swap in... Here are a few facts from our own build... My stepson's 94 Civic came with a 98Ft#, 102HP 1.6L D16 motor. By swapping to the B18B1 NON-Vtec engine alone he moves the HP and torque to 142HP and 127FT# torque. That is without touching anything else... His car currently is running high 17s to low 18s. Our guess is by doing the swap alone he will be running 15s. OK you are thinking 15s... A bone stock Zcar wouldn't break out of the 17s with professional drivers when the car was tested new... and that includes the 75-78 model years. The civic outweighs the Zcar by about 400#. It isn't light in sedan form. We're guessing a realistic weight will be right at 3080# with half tank of gas in a two door sedan. Now, We're building this motor to run boost and a smaller turbo... We plan to push about 8# boost to start with and We're guessing then we'll be seeing low 14s to high 13s. Right now we are about $1300 out of pocket and we still need axles and forged pistons... and probably an injector and fuel pump upgrade... So, by the time were done we'll be at about $2500 to get the car from high 17/low 18s down to the low 14/ high 13 mark. Here is the kicker... these kids LOVE their cars as much as we love our Zs. Yea, some of them do some pretty stupid things to their cars and earn the "Ricer" logo, but I think the term is getting a little tired personally... There is a guy in my town running a 1992 Civic hatch back, and he is running in the 12s. The guy has a short commute (Only about 14 miles each way) but he drives the car to work every day, with full interior and heat/ AC. The car is clean, handles well, and looks nice. He has also done some nice suspension mods to it as well as big brakes from wilwood... The guy is 27 years old and is a real nice guy. He has planned his build, much like we do, and his execussion of it was well done... The car is one that I'd be happy with as a daily driver, that's for sure! They are out there, and my guess is we'll be seeing more of them! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I try to bite my tongue most of the times but I am developing a serious distaste for folks who respond with "THIS or THAT SUCKS!" without giving some reasoning behind the statement. This is especially grating to my nerves when the person making the claim has no personal experience to make such a claim. While I am on my soapbox, let me express one more. I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, free speech, blah, blah, but it really irks me when I see someone criticize another person's car or its performance when their own car is a dream, project in progress or is not even in the same ballpark with its performance. OK, I got that off my chest. FLAME AWAY! BTW, MikeK, excellent points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 While I am on my soapbox, let me express one more. I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, free speech, blah, blah, but it really irks me when I see someone criticize another person's car or its performance when their own car is a dream, project in progress or is not even in the same ballpark with its performance. Was this directed towards me? I'm really not trying to critisize the car, but more the guy I had to listen to for a few hours. That's why I asked if it was true. I know there are fast Honda and Integras out there, unfortunately there are more, though, with just a loud pipe and neon. I just had a hard time swalling a direct bolt in type R motor and instant mid 13's. It just sounded too easy, and if it is that easy why aren't more people jumping on that band wagon. Heck, what's not to like, good gas mileage, comfortable, and then a mid 13 timeslip to boot. Sign me up. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, that was not my intent. I just know there are a lot of drag racers here and some guys with Hondas themselves. So I figured I 'd get info I could trust unlike my previous "source". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Anything can be made fast...however Im a betting man...and playing the odds....the chances of the car being a riced out slow POS are significantly greater than it being a 11sec sleeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB_BA Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I'd give SRT-4's LOW 14's easy. A buddy of mine just got one and he can't even drive a stick...he ran a 14.99 his very first run. He didn't know his shift points, powerband, and had been driving the car for about 1,000 miles. (When I say he can't drive a stick, I mean he shift at 2k half the time, and misses gears driving down the road.) Anyway, they aren't like 'vettes or anything, but they definatly don't suck. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Civic boys switching over to SRTs here soon...they'll have much better cars IMO. Sure, they'll still be ricers, but at least they'll be decent at the track with some mods. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 My comments were not directed at any specific individual but those in general who I see doing it. It probably means absolutely nothing to anyone else, just a personal nit with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 THIS SUCKS!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA That was for Scottie. Actually there is a guy in Bham with a civic with an integra VTEC engine that runs NOS and has run as low as 12.1's in the 1/4 mile on slicks, but he is kind of inconsistent, and his MPH are not where a turbo car would be. I have a friend with a 1.6 DOHC Vtec in a Civic coupe with the drag kit, and he ran a 13.58 at 107 the other day. Stock motor making about 10 pounds of boost. We also have a guy with a turbo Type R integra running low 11's. So there are fast honda's out there, but by and large, most are not fast, and they have the ricer wings, tach with shift light, APC stickers, fart can, and neon. Most honda's I can beat thru the 1/4 mile in my stock 2000 Silverado with a 5.3 and an auto. Be careful or I will hurt some Z car drivers feelings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I drive a 1990 Honda Civic (1.5L Turd) to and from work every day and There is nothing like getting the jump on someone at the light to make the next "Spot" in traffic... I, too, have a 91 Honda Civic with the 1.5L turd. It's actually a lot of fun when you can get the jump on someone at the light and you don't even have to worry about smoking the tires trying to do so. My little Civic has caught many a cars through the on and off ramps. A few guys in their sports cars, are wondering why this kid in that little POS Honduh is hanging off their bumper when they are doing all they can to lose him. I usually leave my window open to here tire squeels, so I know they're pushing it. Anywho, those little Civic's can be made to haul some major booty. The hatch and CRX's are light little cars I believe, and it doesn't take much more than twice the HP to put that thing down the track quickly. I'd also watch out for those Golden Eagle sleeved Honda blocks. If they are setup with strong internals, you wouldn't believe how much boost they can take and I also just found out about an Integra AWD that was out for a year or two in Europe. May help in putting some of that power down, if my little car ever gets boosted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Before i use to be quick to judge cars but after alot of research and hanging out at this site I've basicaly gotten a respect for nearly any kind of car. Now there are LOTS of cars i wish i could have if it wasnt for insurance costs. I think it would be pretty fun to hop up a civic actulaly. There is this guy that lives across the hall from me in the dorms and he writes articles for some car magazine once in awhile and thinks he is the top gun of cars in our hall. But whenever i talk to him all he seems to worry about are body kits and whatnot. He even was trying to tell me that that Dodge Vipers were junk because they didnt have traction control which was his only argument and was quick to say how this VW has 900hp and totaly bad ass. All i could really do is shake my head because i know there is nothing i can say to him because all his ideas seem to be set in stone. I would absolutely LOVE to pull up next to his Jetta while im in my el camino and blow his doors off and then ask him what happend to that traction control of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 As a former honda owner myself i will say i HATE the misinformation the stunnas throw around (kids with body kits, type R stickers, huge pointless wings, etc) YES a gutted hatchback with an INTEGRA type R motor will run an EASY 13 second 1/4. i know someone who road races a basically stock ITR motor (intake, 4-1 race header, turndown exhaust) and he ran an 11.9 on slicks. i was dumbfounded. there is no such thing as a prelude type R. there is the SH wich is the closese thing to an R as the preludes get. the h22 (prelude vtec engine) is a pretty much easy swap into any civic/integra. 200ish whp (wich is alot for a FWD econobox ) and most of them will push a 13 for under 3500$ for everything to get the swap running. the SRT-4 is NOT all hype. someone I know got his hands on one, and a dyno 2 weeks ago. @ 18 PSI on a COMPLETLEY STOCK ENGINE (except a hallman boost controller) it made 257.9WHP and 325.4 ftlbs of torque. absolutley NO signs of detonation, AF never dipped below 11.1 i was amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 heh..one true fact about every fast civic/integra/whatever all stores about these fabled 10/11/12sec cars start with: "i know someone who...." or "My friend has..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240zt Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 you can make a brick go fast if you want to But i gotta say my buddy droped a b16a in his hatch DC header 75 shot of NAWZZZ SCI with retard module and didnt run any thing out of the 14's infact he made it into the 14's on his last run .... wondering tho if it isnt his tires since well they are street tires and not drag radiels. i think this b16 was about 3k inciluding swap. then god knows how much for the other crap. Any ways yes ask the dude with the giant wing on his car if he knows what the real use of them are .... Ricer Items: Lite up muffler tips Bumble bee Exaust Giant Decals Spinning hubcaps Giant ... well most wings windshield sprayers that light up The light up dust caps on the wheels illuminated decals or badging Gigantic coffee cans on 2" exaust type R sticker on any thing thats not Type R Any thing from autozone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z-DET Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I think that the term "ricer" has been blown out of proportion. Any 4 cylinder car that has an exhaust and intake minimum and the general public considers you a ricer. I used to own a SE-R with a 4 cyl. turbo that looked stock on the outside. No big wing, stock wheels, no stickers and had a child seat in the rear. Guess what? I was called a ricer, a wannabe. Do you know what my revenge was? When I started to run low 12's 6 years ago and knocked out the V8 guys at the track (even some with blowers or NO2) they then considered me a "racer". Regarding Honda's, I was at the track today with Garrett, Ivan and Mat. There were a bunch of Hondas with B18 swaps running mid 13's all day. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, there was an EVO VIII that looked stock on the outside, including the stock Potenza tires and he ran 10.87 at 127mph. Do you think anyone would have the balls to call him a ricer? He can take out crotchrockets!!! So, take what you hear with a grain of salt, and overlook the ones who talk sh*t and listen to the ones that DO SH*T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 These cars arn't cars at all... Just play toys in my opinion. Fun little matchbox's to drive around. For racing they SUCK!!! My reasoning? Why put over 200hp to a front wheel drive car? All your gonna do is blow CV's break axles, get torque steer, and a whole world of problems. These cars would be much better off with a RWD base and then stickn' some power in them. Then they wouldn't suck. I've never heard a custom car builder say... "yeah lets make it front wheel drive... that'd be fun huh?"... and I hope i never do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labrat Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Okay, for all of you who say FWD cars suck... My neon (yes, an '04 SRT-4) ran a 13.8 at 107 at the track ltwo weeks ago, and I'll prolly pull half a second off of that tomorrow when I test out the new motor mounts and actually figure out how to launch this beast (2.4s 60'). Yes, most HybridZ's (including the one I just sold to buy this car) have more horsepower and torque. But the neon's still faster. My Z had crushing accelleration through the top of 4th gear (about 110 mph) then it just kinda died. 4th in the neon doesn't really start pulling till 120 mph. I've hit 135+ in 4th in a surprisingly short time. With the boost hold feature of the PCM, I can leave the pedal in the carpet, blip the clutch and shift while the tach stays on the rev limiter, and not have to spool up again when I hit the next gear. Third gear scratches at 65 mph or so are not uncommon. This car continues to amaze me every day that I drive it to work. When I got on the Z to pass, etc., it would make an unholy racket loud enough to set off car alarms at 50 paces. And attract the attention of every peace officer in the tri-county area. I got a speeding ticket in a burger king drive through because the cop, parked on the other side of the building, *HEARD* me driving too fast... The Neon is completely different. Step on the gas and WHOOSH you're doing 80. I guess what I'm saying is not only is my neon fast, it's also refined like the Z could never be. Good working A/C, power steering, CD player, and a back seat even! All at around 2850 lbs. 235 HP stock, and 300+ isn't too hard (expensive) to hit. $4K will actually get you really close to 500 HP. Even then, though, I'll still be in the mid 12's. At around 125 mph... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest goldeh2 Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 alright there is a bit of truth to the crap this guy you're talking about spouts... a Bseries(integra motors) motor will swap striaght into a civic, an H series(prelude) takes a bit more work(like cutting the tranny mount off and putting on another, this is with a prefabbed mount kit too). bolt on H22 hatch's can run high, high 12's to mid 13's with a good driver. a typeical Bseries vtec hatch will run about a mid 13. there is no 'chip' persay for hondas, unless you're taking the ecu apart and soldering the chip in. Nismo280zEd Posted: Oct 19, 2004 - 09:22 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These cars arn't cars at all... Just play toys in my opinion. Fun little matchbox's to drive around. For racing they SUCK!!! My reasoning? Why put over 200hp to a front wheel drive car? All your gonna do is blow CV's break axles, get torque steer, and a whole world of problems. These cars would be much better off with a RWD base and then stickn' some power in them. Then they wouldn't suck. I've never heard a custom car builder say... "yeah lets make it front wheel drive... that'd be fun huh?"... and I hope i never do you entitiled to your opinion, but I know guys with 300+whp hondas that don't break axles, or get torque steer... both would be indications of the car actually getting traction, and it's no secret that fwd's can't hook very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Uh, Hold on there... The B series motor is NOT a direct swap into SOME civics... It is all year/ generation specific. The swap (I did a B18 into a 95 Civic) is straightforward as long as you have all the parts AND I could do them fairly easily, but again, to build it properly for handling abuse and putting piles of miles on it dependably, you will sink more money into it than it is worth... Case in Point: The B18 we built had stock rods that had been race prepped and loaded with ARP bolts, with the block STUDDED and head studded both with ARP bolts... 3000 miles into the motors new life with (I think) Ross (But defenitely) forged pistons and some light port work on the head with a nice SS header and 2.5 inch exhaust... The rod bolt let go due to motyor starvation... With all the above bits, billet fuel rail and cam gears from AEM, and a Spec 2 racing clutch kit, we were well into the $5000 range when all was said and done... with a broken rod... These motors are NOT durable, and if you do the swap into a 92 or newer civic, you're talking serious weight penalties... So, beware... And putting a B motor into a 88-91 Civic or CRX is another story all together... Axles have to be mix matched, and special mounts have to be bought from HASport or someone else, and you're still gonna deal with reliability issues if you squeeze nitros or a turbo onto it... Not to mention breaking axles... Do as you wish, but be educated in the process... For far less money, my bet is you could build something much more reliable, as fast or faster, and with less headache! Try telling my 17 year old and 19 year old that though! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 This is a site dedicated to making cars faster.PERIOD! While we may not agree with the choice of weapon that the younger crowd uses,who are we to judge? I have said before that if you want to hop up your Yugo,more power to you!,I appreciate the effort if not the execution.At the NOPI thing here a while back,there were a gazillion hondas,vws,nissans,toyotas,etc etc,most all running 15 to 18 sec 1/4 miles.My little hybrid going mid 11's made some mouths drop open,no doubt,but I was not the fastest car there,not by a long shot! A black VW jetta w/a huge turbo went low 10s and a Supra went 9s I think.WAY out of my league!!.Any car can be made fast with the right person behind the wrench.I personally try not to underestimate the smarts of some of these Ricers.They're getting quick at an alarming rate and the market is catering to them.I say watch your back boys.Just my .02 cents worth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.