Mikelly Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 My comments are geared towards accuracy in doing the motor "Swap" into these Hondas... Build what you want... At the end of the day we each must be happy with our creations... Point was NOT to paint these Honda Hybrids as simply trivial bolt-ins... as with ANY Hybrid project, education and information accuracy should be job 1! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z-DET Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 What is really funny to me is how we label others. People are so quick to call another a ricer it's ridiculous. Do many of us realize that a good deal of American muscle cars consider us RICERS? Once you tell them you have a V8, SR20DET, RB26DETT, or a 2JZGTE, guess what....you're just a modified ricer. A ricer isn't just a Honda, Nissan or a FWD. It's the Supra, RX7, 300ZX, 350Z, Evo and all modified import cars. At the track on Sunday there was a RWD Toyota Tercel w/ a 3TC engine and a T88 turbo that ran 8.8 ET. Guess what, people in the crowd called him a ricer. A "ricer" is just a term used by those who fear gettin' their butt handed to them by a non-American vehicle. We need to realize that whether or not imports in your area are stock or modified cars, try to eliminate the term ricer and call each other racers. It doesn't matter if you're doing 19's or 9's, at least the guy/girl is doing something most just TALK about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Let me get off the philosophical "what's fast" thing with a practical question: Can these motor swaps be smogged legally? My woman has a '95 civic that's going to die some day, and I've been flirting with the idea of making it my toy. That or a rotary into a Fiat spyder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Strotter, It depends on what type of emissions testing they do. If they just do a tailpipe sniffer, then yes, you could pass it because of the ECU swap that occurs as well. As long as you run the same ECU (or a standalone unit) and have a catalytic converter, then all should be good...If they do a visual check, then you might have issues... find out what your state requirements are. 240ZD-et, I can honestly say that I got a lot more positive feedback from my V8 Z at hot rod events and car cruises than I did at ANY import gettogethers. You might have an issue where you live, but I was called and invited, even asked to bring the car and attend (Mostly Muscle Car) events in my area, and None of the V8 hotrodders I met had anything but positive comments to say about the V8 in the Z... I never got that kinda respect or admiration when the cars I've built were 6 cylinder powered... And three of them were full on track day cars with cages and other track specific items in them, with nice paint and body work. However, your milieage may vary! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest goldeh2 Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 My comments are geared towards accuracy in doing the motor "Swap" into these Hondas... Build what you want... At the end of the day we each must be happy with our creations... Point was NOT to paint these Honda Hybrids as simply trivial bolt-ins... as with ANY Hybrid project' date=' education and information accuracy should be job 1! Mike 8)[/quote'] a B series motor is a true bolt in swap into a 92-00 civic, no custom axles, no custom mounts, just stock parts from the integra. I'm sorry I failed to point out what years that applied to, but 92-00's are the most popular of civics in regards to swaps. sure there are better things to build that fwd hondas, but these days poeple are making do with what they have. also, the motors are durable.. the 300+whp hondas I was talking about? both stock motors with turbo kits.. each have over 40k in miles since turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2slo4u Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Our L6 turbo motors would be durable too, at even higher horsepower levels if we could get aftermarket bolt-ons at every auto parts store in town. There's not enough aftermarket interest in the L6's to design and market durable, well researched aftermarket mods. I wish someone with some serious cashola would get off his/her arse and invest some $ in helping the z car crowd out. 81zxturbo 95slobaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z-DET Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Mikelly, you are absolutely right in that it could very well be a regional thing. I guess I should've explained myself further. Regarding my V8 swap, most guys consider what I'm doing as cool but others have reservations about it. Man, you can't win them all. I just wanted everyone to simply stop calling each other ricers. Like Rodney King said after the LPD whooped his butt, "Can we all just get along?" Love, Peace and Hairgrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest goldeh2 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Our L6 turbo motors would be durable too' date=' at even higher horsepower levels if we could get aftermarket bolt-ons at every auto parts store in town. There's not enough aftermarket interest in the L6's to design and market durable, well researched aftermarket mods. I wish someone with some serious cashola would get off his/her arse and invest some $ in helping the z car crowd out. 81zxturbo 95slobaru[/quote'] who ever said the L6's weren't durable? sure you can get aftermarket parts for a honda at almost any automotive parts store, that doesn't mean the parts aren't crap. the problem with having so much aftermarket support is there are that many more companies putting out an inferior product trying to make a quick buck, rather than those make a quality product. I have nothing against Z's(hell I have one), but it seems wrong to let a discussion on hondas go on without anyone throwing out any knowledge of hondas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 GoldeH2, There are a number of guys on this board who are VERY knowledgable on this subject and several of them DRIVE Honda Swaps they have built... There is even an Administrator/ Moderator here from a Honda swap site (Alex aka Auxilery)... The problem is (And I've preached the peace before as well.. Check my thread on "Us vs. Them") goes back to attitude, ignorance (mainly because there are more posers than REAL import tuners) and jealousy of the aftermarket and attention the Current import crowd get. Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2slo4u Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I KNOW the L6's are durable. I wouldn't own one if they weren't. I said they would be durable at EVEN HIGHER horsepower levels ()than they are currently)(with better aftermarket support) Man, it seems so many people misinterpret what I say regularly. On another post I stated the injector RESISTORS on the 81zx turbo are 6ohms each and someone had to correct me and say "the injectors are all 2.4 ohms " Geez... Oh, and don't let me forget some honda stuff... Hondas are great cars, I just prefer z cars. Peace out. 81zxturbo 95slobaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR240Z Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 in the beginning everyone seems to think that hondas arent really fast cars and cant be (ricer scene), but i have so many videos of turbo hatches (eg and ek) running 11s, 10s, and whatnot. I know that 1bad180sx actually met my friend who has a honda si with a fully built turbo gsr motor putting about 536whp at 22 psi and reving all the way to 9500. from personal experience in driving that car WOW ive never felt a harder pull and especially in a car you wouldnt expect to feel like that. car looks bone stock from the exterior, its barely even lowered an inch with full jic coilovers, only thing that would let you know its boosted is the gauge and boost controller inside the car, otherwise you wouldnt know beforehand unless he popped his hood. here are some pics that 1bad180sx caught of his car at carlsbad raceway: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Labrat... Isn't that the whole point of owning a Z? or any old sports car for that matter? To feel the "rawness" of the car, not subdoed by usless sound padding or unecessary creature comforts such as cup holders. It's a sports car that beat porsches and vettes of it's day... Enjoy it for what it is, A raw, torquey 25 year old sports car. As for racing front wheel drive i honestly don't see the point. Yeah maybe you civic can run a 13, but how many times can it do it before breaking? Three of my friends had acura integras, yeah there fun and quick but you can't even hit 60 in second gear. Some of the newer models, RSX can but i still dont' see the point of turning these cars into serious race cars. If you compare apples to apples Say... a 20k front wheel drive car to a 20k rear wheel drive car, the rear wheel car is gonna be quicker and more reliable for less money. Leave the front wheel on the streets and leave the track for rear and all wheel drive. But hey.. it's not my money... do as ya wish, that's just my logic on the subject. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR240Z Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 dont underestimate what fwd can do, ignorance will beat you. Yea rwd and awd are a lot more fun because there is more to do with them but that doesnt mean that fwd cant keep up with a rwd on a straight line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest goldeh2 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 GoldeH2' date=' There are a number of guys on this board who are VERY knowledgable on this subject and several of them DRIVE Honda Swaps they have built... There is even an Administrator/ Moderator here from a Honda swap site (Alex aka Auxilery)... The problem is (And I've preached the peace before as well.. Check my thread on "Us vs. Them") goes back to attitude, ignorance (mainly because there are more posers than REAL import tuners) and jealousy of the aftermarket and attention the Current import crowd get. Mike 8)[/quote'] ahh, gotcha. it just seems there is alot of one sided-ness and I felt I had to speak up(mostly because my current transportation is a civic). Nisno280zEd, please lead me towards a new 20k rwd car that isn't a small suv. I really don't like fwd, but that is preferance.. there are alot of fwd's out there that can hang with rwd's and awd's on a track now a days.. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 ok i didnt read the whole post.. sorry really busy. but i thought i would say a few things. i sure dont know as much as most people on this forum, nor do i think ill ever but i have been around building, and racing FWD cars for years now. i have built with friends B16 civics that has been all motor, FI.. from drag to road race. i have done the same with integras, dsm's, and pretty much any other FWD import car. i have street raced friends SRT-4's agaisnt awd imports and rwd imports/domestics. i have done the same with other imports. i must say these cars impress me, well ones ive helped build or race. fwd is fun, it has its limits but it has its advantages too. ill say theres nothing like a B18C5 when vtec kicks in and your going around a turn at 65mph... its a blast! all cars are made for different people and different driving. theres some fast FAST FWD imports here in texas that would laugh at some of the fast Z's here on this forum. a car is a car, if it goes fast and does what i like then i wouldnt care if it was a Geo! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Uh' date=' Hold on there... The B series motor is NOT a direct swap into SOME civics... It is all year/ generation specific. The swap (I did a B18 into a 95 Civic) is straightforward as long as you have all the parts AND I could do them fairly easily, but again, to build it properly for handling abuse and putting piles of miles on it dependably, you will sink more money into it than it is worth... Case in Point: The B18 we built had stock rods that had been race prepped and loaded with ARP bolts, with the block STUDDED and head studded both with ARP bolts... 3000 miles into the motors new life with (I think) Ross (But defenitely) forged pistons and some light port work on the head with a nice SS header and 2.5 inch exhaust... The rod bolt let go due to motyor starvation... With all the above bits, billet fuel rail and cam gears from AEM, and a Spec 2 racing clutch kit, we were well into the $5000 range when all was said and done... with a broken rod... These motors are NOT durable, and if you do the swap into a 92 or newer civic, you're talking serious weight penalties... So, beware... And putting a B motor into a 88-91 Civic or CRX is another story all together... Axles have to be mix matched, and special mounts have to be bought from HASport or someone else, and you're still gonna deal with reliability issues if you squeeze nitros or a turbo onto it... Not to mention breaking axles... Do as you wish, but be educated in the process... For far less money, my bet is you could build something much more reliable, as fast or faster, and with less headache! Try telling my 17 year old and 19 year old that though! Mike 8)[/quote'] Was it the non-Vtec B series that let go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Yup... It was an LS motor that we had dumped a TON of money in... He contributed to it, but my machinist warned me about the rods and Honda's history of failure... Machinists see a LOT more of what works and what doesnt' and Dave Williams told me from day one that the rods on these motors (VTEC and NON vtec) were the weak link. JUst so we're all straight here... The car I was driving as my commutor BEFORE I bought my C5 Corvette last December? It was a 1990 Honda CIVIC HF with a motorswap in it. My 17 year old is driving it now... Lowered suspension, nice exhaust (Sounds like crap to me, but what they hey! ) and a nice black paintjob by macco... Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hey guys, I think the funniest thing about the whole "ricer"(or should I say sun compact) thing is that the kids driving these cars dont seem to do any research about what they ar talking about... I guess a movie is all they need to watch to get all the "facts" that they need.... There is one of those kids here at work, and I gotta say he (unknowingly) is a big reason I am going to start throwing money at my Z again.. He always has the Sport Compact and turbo magazines in his pocket and he is always talking about how he races and how fast his car is and all that jaz... He asked me "how fast did my car top out at in the 1/4?"... My response was 117.6 @ 12.24.......... His response was "OH for real?"... and then he followed that by saying "my car topped out at 140MPH... I timed it this weekend"...... He is a real likeable kid and always smiling so I didnt want to make him look like a fool..... His car is a late 80 something ford probe with a cold air and a wing and a bunch of stickers and some really nice wheels..... UPDATE a month after he told me the above......He told me the other day that he finally ran the 1/4 at the track and his car ran a 17.4..... Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I think the funniest thing about the whole "ricer"(or should I say sun compact) thing is that the kids driving these cars dont seem to do any research about what they ar talking about... Ricer to me doesn't mean japanese car or Honda or any of that. It means a jackass who doesn't know WTF they're talking about walking around with a chip on their shoulder bragging about their shopping cart handle looking wing on the back and the huge amount of downforce it provides, or trying to convince me that 18" wheels and 20 series tires makes a Honda handle better. There was this 17 year old jackass I used to work with who had a STOCK Honda Civic DX with those lame $300 Nology wires and a cone filter and a fart pipe and a HUGE chip on his shoulder. One time he seriously RODE MY ASS and swerved back and forth behind me as we drove down the 25 mph street in the industrial complex. I swear I almost got in a fist fight with him over that. I told him that racing where there are 50 driveways and no visibility and people walking everywhere is a bad idea and FINALLY got him to agree to come to an autox, then he gets fired about a week before hand. That's OK, he probably wouldn't have gone anyhow. Of all the ricers I've ever tried to get out to an autox (probably at least 25 or 30 by now) only 1 has gone. And me and a couple of buddies took real good care of him, gave him rides, showed him the line, etc. He went home all happy and told all of his ricer friends how cool it was. He kept coming to races, his buddies were too chicken dodo to show up. Eventually stupidity overtook him and he bought one of those anime looking attack Honda body kits to turn his Honda into a "show car" and quickly found out that the guys winning the shows had $100,000 Hondas. I don't know what happened after that, but at least I respected him for going and racing and being willing to learn. His car actually handled OK too. Sorry for the rant but the most of the little bastards piss me off. I don't have any problem with the guy who builds a Honda because he wants a Honda. I have a problem with these "I'll race you in bumper to bumper traffic on a surface street" punks who don't know WTF they are talking about and walk around with something to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Yup, ask 100 people WHY they hate the ricer mentality and it will be a unanimous vote AGAINST the attitudes of the PUNKS who know nothing, but want to pretend... My tag on my truck says it all NOPOSRS.... I have a HUGE amount of respect for the guys who engineer their cars and make them DO IT right. There is a TON of aftermarket support out there for hondas, and I don't understand WHY there aren't more of them with the right mix of parts to make them work well... I guess for all their efforts spent on big wings and stickers, electronics and lights, they simply do NOT WANT to really understand the physics behind mass in motion... And Jmortensen, I've tried the same thing... I've even handed out flyers to events like FATT (Summit Point Instructional ROAD course training) and autoXs... What we fail to understand is what drives them away from these things is FEAR... It is real easy to hang out in a lot and talk trash... real hard to admit when you CAN'T drive... Saw the look in my oldest step son's face when we went to an autoX... All the sudden he isn't the next Michael Shoemocker! In front of his little hottie girlfriend no less! A lot easier to sit and talk trash, and like a punk, threaten violence, or make up excuses WHY they lost that stoplight run... Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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