ZR8ED Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Yea Its a weird topic.. stupid I suppose, but I was bench racing with a die hard domestic fan (who respects Z's at least a bit) We were just wasting some time, and he mentioned if I wanted a real performance car, I should just get a Viper and be done with it.. yea a z can be made to run, but for serious $$$... well long story short.. he figured a stocko viper, would handily kick a Z's ass (pure handling..no drags) .. stock, or basically any street Z.. not neccessarily a GT 1 race prepped Z.. (he isn't that stupid, and knows how lethal a Z can be) Any ways.. stocko viper vs a modded Z.. lets say.. reasonable brake upgrade.. vented rotor style... you pick.. upgraded suspension, shocks, sway bars, lowered, coilovers or not.. suspension tweeked properly.. not a hack job... quality street legal rubber. Minus any thought regarding hp..it would take a serious engine in a z to whoop a viper... .. just pure handling.. either tight twisties, or highspeed on ramps, road courses.. could a moderately modded Z suspension keep up with a viper through the curves?.. I've never had the chance to see for myself.. just curious for the benchracing.. I couldn't come up with a reasonable response.. I know a the potential of my Z.. but not too sure how it may stack up against a stock viper.. any ideas?.. this is just for fun.. nothing too serious when talking with this guy.. just friendly competition... opinions?.. should I stick it back at him, or stay quiet and eat some humble pie? hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 well, it's different to decide where the line is drawn on moderately modded Z. are things like rollcage allowed? because the Z's chassis is nowhere as stiff as a viper. If we use my car for example, which has 225/50/15 yoko es100 tires (pretty grippy), tokiko illuminas, GC coilovers with 200lb/in springs, vented rotors and 4 pot brakes.... i'd say i t would lose pretty badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I would think it depends a fair bit on the track in question as well. If we are talking tight, twisty parking lot autocross, I think the Z has a chance being smaller and lighter. I think as you stretch out the course however, the traction/power/high speed stability of the viper will come into play and take over. We know a modded Z can take a viper in a straight line. I'd say its possible for a "super Z" to be able to clean a stock vipers clock at least on a slow road course/parking lot autocross. Sticky tires can take you far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 .... i'd say i t [/b']would lose pretty badly. Do you mean the Viper or the Z. I am hoping you mean the Viper, sounds like you have a good setup. I've never ridden in a Viper, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oltmann Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I doubt it, T1 Vipers turn much faster times than ITS Z's on road courses. If you are talking about a Z with better power/weight than a Viper like many of the cars here, then it would be much closer depending on the track. John Coffee has show that you can beat them with less power if you set up the suspension right. I still think the Viper would outhandle the Z you described though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 .... i'd say i t [/b']would lose pretty badly. Do you mean the Viper or the Z. I am hoping you mean the Viper' date=' sounds like you have a good setup. I've never ridden in a Viper, though. [/quote'] I meant my Z would lose, given both drivers have equal skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Dudes, I have a video of a mid 90's Vette trying to chase down a 240 on Buttonwillow raceway. They are both modded. I thought the Vette was a better handler than the viper? If thats the case, then a modded Z should be able to turn or out-turn a stock Viper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 I think that video you have is of a C5 chasing a Z, and the Z is a v8 swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30Z Bushido Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 it's unfair to compare these two cars, the viper is an exotic. vipers are going for 80k these days. to make things more even, i bet you could build a faster S30 with the 80k it would cost to purchace a viper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted June 6, 2003 Author Share Posted June 6, 2003 It sounds like I should just keep quiet on the subject. I wouldn't go shooting my mouth off I could out handle a viper, but I will tell you..I'd love to find out.. I just have to find one to play with... I certainly understand about the totally different car theory.. an extra $80K and 30 years of technology.. he better damn well beat a Z!!!! but you know bench racing... who could beat who in a fight?.. superman or the hulk?.. the daredevil or batman?..hehehe Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thepenguin99 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 superman....batman =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Batman would be the last man standing, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Batman would be the last man standing, no doubt about it. What if God fought Ditka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Damn Cracker Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 sounds like notmany people, if any, have raced a viper agains a z. But in every test/comparrson(road and track, car andriver), c5 vettes have easily beaten vipers in both handling and braking, while the viper won out at top speed and acceleration. I'm sure somebody has racd a vette in a scca race or something, or at least drivin one. If a modded z can beat a stock c5 in the twistys, it'll easily beat a stock viper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Batman would be the last man standing' date=' no doubt about it.[/quote'] What if God fought Ditka? trick questoin! Ditka is god! hahahha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Its actually an impossible to answer question: "Can car A out handle car B?" Why? Its impossible to fairly compare two vehicle's handling capabilities until you eliminate the horsepower, tire, and track issues. Here's a some world examples: I was just watching a vintage race on Speed where a mildly modified Lotus Elan beat a heavily modified Jaguar XKE 3.8 around a tight race track. Later in the weekend series the Jaguar lapped the Lotus on a much more open, faster track. Which of those cars handled better? My argument is that the Lotus handled better on the small tight track but the Jaguar handled better on the big open track. My 240Z has a power to weight ratio of a previous generation Viper GTS ACR Coupe. Almost exactly the same but my car weighs about 800 lbs less then the Viper. Ron Wasserman and John Dearing drove a Viper GTS ACR Coupe in the 2003 OTC and I think Bryan Lampe and Dearing are of comparable driving skill and experience. Bryan, in my 240Z, beat Dearing in the Viper at every track. Why? Tires. We ran Hoosier R3S03s and Dearing ran some 140 treadwear Michelin Pilots. Did we "outhandle" the Wasserman/Dearing Viper? In that event, yes. Why? Dearing had trouble putting the power down exiting corners - had nothing to do with how fast each car was going around the corners. What would have happened if both cars were on the same tires? Don't know. What am I trying to say? That there are too many other variables to really ever come to a comclusion about which car handles better then another. And that's despite all the crapola you read in car magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Last season I was on the track at the same time as a Viper. I have the same or slightly better power to weight, and was able to keep up, and potentially pass the car (but it wasn't a race, and we weren't allowed to pass). The track is fairly twisty and not that high speed. This discourse should in no way be construed as even remotely objective to comparing the cars - I don't think the Viper driver was as experienced as I am, and to boot, the Viper had to pull off as it kept overheating. But for the money, the Viper damn well better be able to outhandle my stock Z, considering it cost 10x as much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FASTKINGCAB Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 sounds like notmany people, if any, have raced a viper agains a z. But in every test/comparrson(road and track, car andriver), c5 vettes have easily beaten vipers in both handling and braking, while the viper won out at top speed and acceleration. I'm sure somebody has racd a vette in a scca race or something, or at least drivin one. If a modded z can beat a stock c5 in the twistys, it'll easily beat a stock viper. A Vette beats a viper on paper. But when it comes down to lap times the avrage Viper will hand the avrage vette it's ass. the Vipep simply over powers it's victims. Once the viper hits the apex of a turn it just plain takes off. I think if you got a nicley moded Z up to about the same power to weight ratio then perhaps, PERHAPS the Z could hold it's own. then it's only a matter of stuffing a set of 335/35-17's under the Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I think there are a hand full of guys on this board who have enough experience and track time to even discuss this topic with real legitemacy. John C. is one of them, and I'd like to thank him for injecting some facts into this particular discussion. I used to Autocross a Ford Fiesta that was mildly modified. I regularly beat cars MUCH better suited to spank my car at larger courses. However, on a tight autocross I'd hand most of the guys their butts... Did that make my little Fiesta a Better handling car? Not likely. Saying that a 'Vette or Viper does X or Y better is without merit. As John C. stated above, WAY TO MANY variables... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 My track day was last Saturday, and I ran in the same group as a pair of Vipers. One had slicks and big brakes, the other was mostly stock. They both kicked my a$$, even though I can easily keep up in the straights. I think it's mostly my driving though, the car does well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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