Mikelly Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Nathan, Not to worry, You are included in that limited group of guys who regularly go to the track and understand the above comments. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 #/hp is certainly revelant, but so is the amount of tire on the ground. Vette's and viper's both have huge tires compared to unflared Z's, even though they are heavier. I'd like to see someone do a #/(square inch of contact patch area) comparison between different cars. I bet it would be interesting. The amount of grip is the limiting factor on how fast any car accelerates, turns, and stops. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Stock Viper vs. modded NA, pump gas, 6-cylinder Z (under $15,000)? Z wins! http://www.comscc.org/results/nhis0802.htm http://www.comscc.org/results/nhis0902.htm http://www.comscc.org/results/nhis1002.htm http://www.comscc.org/results/lrp_1102.htm Note, for the August NHIS event, I had POORLY tuned 2" SUs with a big retarded cam, = no midrange and no top end, either. After that I had 45mm 3X2s. The October NHIS event was in the rain. No Viper in the Lime Rock event (he crashed), I included it anyway cuz I set FTD (fluke)! Stock Z06s are slow, too;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 OK Guys TAKE NOTE!!!! These guys WHO GO TO THE TRACK, and who ACTUALLY DRIVE THEIR CARS, They are the guys I expect to make statements like "Such and Such make car SUXs!" I'm getting fed up on some of the members who have NEVER made it to the track making claims of these types of things... Smells to much of Fast & Furious-like BS to me... Dan, EXCELLENT POST! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Does this sound fair? Take the window sticker price of a '70 240Z, subtract it from the window sticker price of a new viper, and make that your mod-budget for the Z... You could even calculate inflation into the Z's price tag; you'd then have a level playing field. I think, with a budget of roughly $40K (Don't know what Vipers are going for nowadays), a Z could very well run circles around a viper... Easier said than done, ofcourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Yea Its a weird topic.. stupid I suppose, but I was bench racing with a die hard domestic fan (who respects Z's at least a bit) We were just wasting some time, and he mentioned if I wanted a real performance car, I should just get a Viper and be done with it.. yea a z can be made to run, but for serious $$$... well long story short.. Kind of interesting then that it came in dead last behind the Cobra R and Z06, unpredictable handling was the word of the day. I would agree with what John said though, all kinds of different tracks for different cars to shine on. One thing I look at is tire width to weight ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I think, with a budget of roughly $40K (Don't know what Vipers are going for nowadays), a Z could very well run circles around a viper... Betcha it can't be done for that amount of money, especially the new RT/10. I've got more then that in my 240Z and I can hang with stock previous gen GTS ACR Coupes. Mumford's or Schley's modified ACRs would kick my butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I think we were talking about stock Vipers, but give me $40k (and a year). I wouldn't guarantee anything, but I think with the right people (engineers, techs, drivers, etc.) involved, it's certainly well within the realm of possibility to run with or beat the fastest T1 cars, given that there are no restrictions (on the Z). Of course you have to consider at what point it is no longer a Z! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Of course you have to consider at what point it is no longer a Z! Huh? Don't you see the Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs racing at Nascar? Are you saying those aren't really stock cars? If it looks like a Z, only is faster and handles better, it's still a Z! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I smell a new Grassroots Motorsports Challenge! A $40,000 budget to build a car that beats a stock 2000 Dodge Viper GTS ACR on Hoosiers. That includes cornering, braking, acceleration and track times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 You guys get me the budget and I'm in! Bench racing time. $40,000 is a lot of cash to play with if you have some facilites allready. Oh crap you mean US$, that is a lot!!! I think you could make an AMC Pacer beat a viper with that much to throw at it. I guess it depends if you are talking about $40k in raw materials, or if you are paying for labour for everything. With it just in parts/materials I think it could be well beyond a viper. (again, providing you had a good shop with some decent machines and tooling, a TIG, brake and shear, etc) I would think a ~2200lbs Z with 450+rwhp and a wheelbarrow load of traction should do it. Not hard to get that kind of power, not hard to get that weight (providing you go to a well designed tube frame), and a lot of time and research into suspension, wheels and tires, and I think you should be there. (if you are going tube frame, you might as well go dual a-arm...) The question is, is it still a Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 ACR's are a little more expensive... Against an ACR, your Z budget would be closer to $60K... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I would say in an autox, the biggest factor isn't the car, but the driver. A good car doesn't make up for lack of driving skills. A viper showed up last year with mods like aftermarket twin turbos and indy car style wheels and slicks. That car sure did draw a crowd. and it looked like it was going to hand everybody their ass, no problem. But, as it turned out, My POS stock motor 240Z on street rocks was only .013 sec slower than it on a 70 second course. On the other hand, a few years back, a different viper/driver showed up to the event late just as we were finishing up but we let him take a fun run anyway. He hit the course without so much as a look at a course map and took TTOD ... against some other very fast cars and drivers too. --John #73 FP 240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 We're talking about cars here, not drivers, although I understand what you're saying. The idea is that, all other thing being equal, which is the better car--The Viper, or the Z, modded on a budget that would not allow the Z's value to exceed that of the Viper? And since everyone is asking, I would say ix-nay on the ube-frame-tay. The Z could not be modified to the point where it could not be restored to its original form. There are exceptions, ofcourse... For instance, as I understand it, the engine on the new viper has been bored out to achieve its current displacement, so that's fair game, but no motor swaps. Camber plates that require cutting are O.K. too. I've also read about a Z that used a rear subframe and suspention from a Skyline to reduce squating. It required almost no fab. work to install. As long as the original subframe could be re-grafted to the chassis, that'd also be acceptable... Although such a mod would slightly defeat the point of the test, which, as far as I see it, is to prove that the technology that went into the original Z cars was ahead of its time. And that the original Z is still a sophisticated car design by todays standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 could a moderately modded Z suspension keep up with a viper through the curves?.. I've never had the chance to see for myself.. hehe The answer would have to be "YES". The key would be tires. I know that many of my Datsun buddies (albeit, 510 guys) run R compound tires for the street all year around. Here in Oregon, it would be a bit scary due to rain. Anyway, I ran my 510 at Portland Int'l Raceway a couple years ago at a club track day. My car had a 200 HP L22 (4 cylinder), coilovers, brake upgrades, etc, but is a daily driven street car. With a set of 195/60-14 Kumho DOT race tires, I ran identical lap times to the Viper that was there. Since they've got meat on those things, a little more "sticky" on my part seemed fair. At any rate, he'd pull me hard down the straight, but I'd catch right back up in the corners. So, I had better handling than the Viper, that was in a "shoe-box" 510. Since then, I upgraded to a 510 with a VG30ET with 340 HP / 400 ft lbs. That, however, was not enough, so I sold that car for $20k and am building an LS1/6 (C5 or Z06) powered Z car. I decided to go with a bullet, rather than a brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Gary - you're my hero bud. Go get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Gary - you're my hero bud. Go get them. That's funny. I try! 8) Here's the Viper nemesis 510 (at least at PIR) http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/articles/readers_dime_2_3.html White VG30ET 510. (would have kept up with the Viper on the straights, too) http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/pictures/spreadbury/spreadbury2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I love 510's. Always wanted one of them to play with like the Z. Kind of the Japanese version of the mini-cooper (but bigger) in my mind. Your's was a really sweet looking car. I'll bet it was a blast to drive. Wonder how an LS1 would fit in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I love 510's. Always wanted one of them to play with like the Z. Kind of the Japanese version of the mini-cooper (but bigger) in my mind.Your's was a really sweet looking car. I'll bet it was a blast to drive. Wonder how an LS1 would fit in it? Well, V8s don't fit in them, as the V6 is about as much as you can fit w/o cutting the firewall, thus losing your heater. A heater is a must here in Oregon. Besides, even the LS1 would add a couple hundred pounds to the front of the car, and it wouldn't handle worth a crap. Since the LS1 combo weighs nearly the same as the L28, it's a great thing for a Z. Why do you think I finally gave up and just went with a Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Gee - and I thought it was the sleek good looks and sex appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.