Jersey Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Hey all. First off, thanks to everyone that gave advice and suggested everything they could. Well, it's 3am here in NJ and i located the source of why no timing advance, no Green LED flash and rich at idle. Pin #9 - yellow - is suppose to be tied to cranking 12v ONLY. Well, i had it tied together with the Black/White leads that supplies power in the crank AND run position! For some reason, i read the FSM incorrectly 5 months ago when i did the T-swap and hooked this yellow in with the Black/White lead. This yellow is in the same plug as the CAS and TPS wires. I have no idea why it only needs crank only 12v, but it does and when i re-wired it correctly...LED started flashing - adjusting injectors and timing advance started working. What is strange and why this was so hard to find was because this just started to happen. Honestly, i never checked timing advance or looked at the green LED after i did the swap so i have no idea if either ever worked. I wouldn't think it would but who knows. It just ran so nice after the install that i didn't need to mess with it. Anyway, i'm wooped and will post more tomorrow. Again, thanks to all that kept throwing ideas at me. This is exactly why a forum like HybridZ is so valuable (plug, plug ) But it really is. Hope to pay you all back one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaZT Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Congratulations Hopefully your late night trouble shooting sessions are over. Electrical gremlins can drive you crazy. Weird how it was running so good before with it wired wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 I told you that's what it was! Mission accomplished! Good Job! now take it to the track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afshin Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Yahooo! Triple congratulations after all that work This yellow is in the same plug as the CAS and TPS wires. I have no idea why it only needs crank only 12v, but it does and when i re-wired it correctly...LED started flashing - adjusting injectors and timing advance started working As I mentioned in my previous post the ECU operates in open loop mode during start/crank (and cold engine, high load and RPM>3600)and hence bypasses the O2 sensor at that time. Since you were providing a crank signal at all times, you could not get into closed loop mode. My guess is that timing is also fixed during crank time. Well you certainly made all of us think hard. I hope you have a blast during the holiday weekend, and watch out for the oh so so many cops in NJ (I used to leave there for many years) Enjoy the drive 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 hahah allllllllllllright good for you Jersey I think many of us will breathe a sigh of relief along with you on this one I'm very glad you finally found the problem out and I hope that is the 100% solution. Agreed it is odd that the problem was not there from day one, but cars can be weird like that. I'm also glad that I now have yet another idea of something I may need to check if my car is still running badly when I get it back. These turbo swaps can turn ordinary men into mechanics and electricians very quickly it seems, and school is just about to be back in session for me once I get the head fixed. I need to pick up one of those FSM's too. big pat on the back for ya Jersey I'm glad you can go back to enjoying driving your Z instead of pulling your hair out because of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I studied my FSM a whole bunch of times, I went thru the component testing section and it mentioned the start signal wire that caused you problems. Other than 2 dead distributors, I had no wiring problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Bay - Thanks. I'm hoping the extra late night troubleshootong is over for a while also. I can't understand how it ran so well with this yellow receiving 12v in the run position also....and then just start giving me problems? One to the wind. As long as i solved it. I'm just hoping it didn't screw anything else up that was holding on for so long then finally gave up...partially. Thanks again. szlash - Thanks man. Just had to go pin by pin. Funny thing is, is that i noticed 4.5ohms resistance on the b/w leads and then start tracing that blck/white all over the car..then i noticed i had tied the yellow to it and just for the heck of it, re-checked the FSM and then checked my cousins '83zxt's yellow and sure enough, it was wired incorrectly. I still haven't found why there's 4.5ohms resistance on the blck/wht but, i will continue to check it out. I can't wait to get it back to the track. Just need to make sure it's running correctly, then put on my homemade 3" exhaust and grainger valve and i'll be good to go. Thanks again. Afshin - Thanks. This was a tough one for sure but all the help and motivation i received here got me to find it. Thanks for all the info. I just wish i knew more of the logic of the ECCS system and exactly how it works. I read the FSM over and over but at some point you reach the end of what it has to offer and states something like "need ECCS analyzer" or "take to a dealer" Your info is well appreciated. Holiday weekend is almost over and stayed away from the NJ cops. They're getting worse by the day. Good thing you got out of here Thanks again. 525 - Thanks. I've worked on cars/trucks since i was 5....alright..i held the light for dad at that age but you know what i mean ....and this one really had me. The L28 w/SU's sitting along side my Z was looking better and better. haha. Then i thought about 15.123 vs 12.88. I was going to find the problem Hey, hope you have some good luck coming your way as well. Best way to learn sometimes is to dig into it yourself if you can find the time. Good luck. Thanks Len. And thanks to everyone else that didn't reply to this but gave thought and suggestions throughout my "experience" Hope i'll be able to help you out as you helped me. - Jersey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagefumer11 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 whats this green light? what does it mean, mine never flashes. it never has : / . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 umm....you ask what the green light is and then say it never flashes? The green LED i've referred to is on the ECM circuit board that you can view through an access hole in the ECM cover. It responds to the voltage sent from the O2 sensor and adjusts injector pulse to keep it as close to 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture. I'd put a meter on your O2 and see if it's dead. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagefumer11 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 sorry, hhe im new to all this. where is it located (o2 sensor)? what are the side affects if its not w orking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 hey jersey, I was just kidding, I had no idea what was causing your problem! I think mudge had the same exact problem didn't he? I remember reading some posts on here about Pin 5 being wired wrong and causing problems, so I made sure to check mine when I hooked my ECCS up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 O2 located in the downpipe, right after the T3. If it's NG, it wont send the correct signal to the ECM which in turn, wont adjust injector pulse and probably keep the system in the open loop mode. szlash, you may not have knew exactly what the problem was but, you confirmed more in my head that it had to be in the harness somewhere which made me troubleshoot in that direction again. It all helped. Not sure what mudge did to solve his problem, but i know he was having one heck of a time as i recently was. Pin 5 should be the O2 lead, if i remember correctly. Man, i bet can rattle off exactly what each wire goes to just by naming pin #'s, now that i've been through them all 10 times each! haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Well Jersey.....you will now be the turbo conversion troubleshooting guru!! You have very obviously learned a huge amount about the operation of the oem fuel injection electronics for the turbo engine. Glad you got things worked out!! Well done for sticking to it for so long!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Thanks Tim. Yes, i learned a lot more now that i had this problem. I thought i knew a bunch before by doing the T swap, now i know even more. Always room to learn i guess. My wife doesn't understand me sometimes...i never like to give up on anything, no matter how long it takes or how hard it is or gets. It bugs me until i find the reason/solution. I guess it's my stubborness (Italianess? ) Basically why i will never take any of my vehicles to a so called "mechanic" My son will learn the same way He just doesn't know it yet at age 3 Thanks again. Quick question, do you or anyone else know, if i'm suppose to disconnect the TPS when setting initial timing to 20btdc after reaching normal operating temp? In the POS chilton manual, it tells me i should but i don't see that info in the FSM? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Quick question, do you or anyone else know, if i'm suppose to disconnect the TPS when setting initial timing to 20btdc after reaching normal operating temp? In the POS chilton manual, it tells me i should but i don't see that info in the FSM? Thanks. TPS should be closed with throttle at idle. Set timing. BTW, congrats on finding the problem, that was a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Thanks Sleeper and thanks, it WAS menatally tough You guys helped a bunch. Appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 My FSM for my 83 doesn't say to unhook it either. Just the plug running to the distributor. You can always try it and see if any difference in timing. Although I wouldn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted September 1, 2003 Author Share Posted September 1, 2003 Which plug running to the dizzy Len? There's only 2 things running to the dizzy on my '82 L28ET - the 4 prong plug that sends/recieves signals from the ECCS and the ground that runs to the capacitor....and of couse the coil wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I unplugged the black wire; unplugging the four prong plug would cause the engine to die if I remmenber right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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