Tim240z Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 MY 2c... Pull the head. Replace the gasket. Have the head checked for straightness (such long heads tend to warp easily). Replace the head. I highly doubt that you've fried a ring. Change the oil and water. Have you tried retorquing the headbolts? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Tim just beat me to my exact suggestion. The only thing i would do differently is to just get the head shaved if it's out of whack, considering that you mentioned $ is tight. You can rent a uhaul tow dolly for about $20 if you find it's not the gasket to get the car back to where you live but i have a feeling it is the gasket. Just a 7k mile away guess And....my OPINION - do not go with the ford or your old n/a motor. You will get this figured out. You've come this far, stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 pull the head off, if you can fix it by shaving the head a little and doing a head gasket, thats an easy fix. If its a piston cracked or rings, hey you were gonna trade it anyways right? I really dont think its a ring problem since motor is pretty fresh, Ive detonated a bunch and overheated pretty good a few times, and the L just grins and bears it basically IME. I have a pretty fresh motor, and it had 190k on it when I pulled it. I did rebuild it, but looking back on it, I didnt have to-sucker would probably be running with me hard to this day, but I did have it in pieces and it was easy at the time. Little 6 has gained my confidence and respect, and thats why Im thinking its probably a head gasket and or warpage. You are in it too far, and I dont think youre ready to handle an NA bottom ended turbo motor now-I think thats my next move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Okay... well that's what I wanted to know, if it was somehow still possibly the head and/or gasket. If all goes according to plan, I should be able to go back to my friends house this saturday and pull the head off to take a look. I did consider the possibility that I cracked or holed a piston... yikes. I just can't see it being the gasket... I can't see how oil would get to the #5 cylinder from a blown head gasket. No matter which way I look at all the 'evidence' NONE of it makes sense. Anyways, don't worry guys I wont trade it for the contour that moment of insanity has passed. And I've got too much money invested to just go back to my N/A motor... that would be the equivalent of me taking $5000 cash and throwing it out my window... can't do that. Things are looking up a little... if it ends up not being the head gasket, I can get this block off my friend as a trade, no $$ involved, and have it rebuilt. Cheapest place I've found so far is about $600 to get it rebuilt, new pistons, rings, bearings. I say things are looking up because I also found another option, another guy I know is willing to sell me a complete long block with less than 70k miles on it, including an exhaust manifold and spare turbo which he says is in really good shape (very little shaft play) for $300. Though I like the idea of a newly built block... there's a lot more involved there as it will be 2x as much labor and may cost even more if my head was somehow damaged/warped, whereas this motor can just drop right in and then I can pull the other one apart and sell parts off it or whatever. Guess I could at least sell my head if it's okay, and sell the extra turbo... probably get almost enough to cover the $300 I wont give up guys... and thank you all very much for standing behind me and for nudging me back on track every time this thing screws up and I think I can't keep doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Bastaad, Don't get your block rebuilt for $600. Trust me. I just made the same mistake. You may or may not recall my 22RE question a few weeks ago. I was in the middle of a move, and paid for a rebuilt motor instead of doing it myself. Nothing but a big headache. I paid $895 for the rebuild which is dirt cheap, put it back together, couldn't get the vacuum hoses right (looked at the damn diagram about 50 times too), had a honking sound from the AFM. Finally got fed up and took it to a shop, they fixed all of my driveablility issues and set the low speed air/fuel mix on a gas analyzer. So far so good. Then a couple of days later it starts making an exhaust leak noise. Take it back to the shop because by now I don't even want to look at the damn thing. Turns out #3 intake valve seat had FALLEN OUT OF THE HEAD and was following the intake valve up and down. Also, #3 intake valve guide was also LOOSE and you could slide it in and out of the head with your FINGERS!!! You get what you pay for. I already knew that, but somehow I was unable to pass up a good deal. I got into a quick and cheap frame of mind because I was moving and had no spare $$$. Had to swap the head for another one from the same builder (covered under warranty), now it seems to run OK, but we'll see how long this one holds up. If you want to crank up the boost, you can figure forged pistons, resizing the rods, balancing the whole assy, boring, honing, etc. I'd fix the current motor and build the other one on the side. If you add in head studs and good rod bolts I would expect $2500 or so minimum. But then you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. $600 is gonna get you the cheapest cast pistons available, a crappy bore/hone job, and that's about it. Take your time and do it right like I DIDN'T! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ... I thought $600 for just a rebuilt block was reasonable... remember I only need the block rebuilt, I already rebuilt the head. You're saying you payed $895 for a whole engine rebuild right? THAT is dirt cheap. Last time I had a whole engine rebuilt it cost me $1500, $700 for the head and $800 for the block... so I didn't think $600 was so much cheaper that it meant a crappy job of it. But now you've scared me Ah well I'm probably just gonna buy this other guys long block... he's a stranger and I have no reason to believe that he's being honest about the block having less than 70k... but then again, lots of guys here have had great luck with junkyard motors, if this one is at least clean, I can't be much worse off right? I'll pull the valve cover and check the cam and rockers, if they're good I wont worry too much, also I'll try to do a compression test on it, but it's out of the car and no tranny attached for me to hook up a starter... is there another way I can do a compression check on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I figure a decent L rebuild should be about 1200 or so, thats still kinda cheap I think-L internal parts are expensive... Rebello charges about 3k for a rebuild, but they do it right. Im going to rebuild mine at my old work, my old boss just charges me rental storage and food to work on my stuff there sometimes, but not anytime soon, this 7.4 cr engine runs pretty hard. Would like to work with 8.3 or so cr with flattop f54, p90, and 2mm steel hg. Pull the head off, youll know whats going on instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 $600 for a bottom end rebuild on an L6 is also cheap. Not as cheap as my 22RE, but still too cheap to expect much out of it. I'd do a used not rebuilt motor with reasonably low miles for $600 way before I rebuilt the bottom end in an L6 for that kind of $$$. I have seen engine stands on which you can do a compression test or start the motor, but I think that they are a custom thing, so I think you'll have to put it in before you can test it. If you get a used engine that runs reasonably well you should have some time to build another bottom end on the side. BTW--Go back and see what they did that last time for $800 if you can. And remember, you had no boost back then... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'd do a used not rebuilt motor with reasonably low miles for $600 way before I rebuilt the bottom end in an L6 for that kind of $$$. If you get a used engine that runs reasonably well you should have some time to build another bottom end on the side. Yep that would be the plan. The more I think about it the more I think this would be the way to go. It would just be so much easier... I wouldn't have to swap the head over to another block... just take one motor out, drop the other one in, and go. You guys have scared me about the $600 rebuild that's for sure The problem with buying a used motor is you never know if someone is being honest with you.. the guy says less than 70k miles, and he seems cool enough, I'm not getting a bad vibe from him or anything. The other problem is that with turbo's is that it's just so easy to screw them up so bad no matter how many miles are on it, as I've just learned the hard way. Anyways I probably wont bother building another bottom if this motor turns out to be in really good shape... I've spent enough $$ as it is. Now... I just hope... if I do go for this, that for once, luck smiles on me and this engine works out and ends up being good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 bastaad i blew my stock gasket twice the first time it blew to the side of the block making a psssst noise i figured the exhaust was leaking and kept driving her then it blew to the water jacket and holy water Mine blew in number 6, also i HIGHLY doubt like the others that you broke a piston.I am realy good at breaking pistons now i have broken three and all broke due to MAJOR detonation like a whole crap load.Every time iw as my fault and every time i didn't screw up the cly walls.The stock head gasket will hold alot of boost mine held over 30psi when my car was over boosting the reason my gasket blew was cuz my fuel pump power line was loose on the battery terminal and would stop working sometimes and usually under full load that is what killed it.Also you get some high compresson for a turbo motor i have always have gotten 100psi on all my turbo rebuilds has your head bee shaved before?The n/a stock compresson on my other motors have been in the 110 to 125 range.Might just be my engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 It sounds like you were running at the edge if the extra heat made it rattle. If you had knock you should have backed the timing or boost off a little. Sometimes a quick rattle will break a ring land. Are you running P90 pistons? Everything else has thinner ring lands and is substantially weaker. Usaully it's a ring land or the corner of the crown that goes. If it were an HG you would have low psi in 2 conjoining cylinders, not just one. I haven't broke a ring with out stacking the ring lands too. I'd say you have a paper weight. If you are running P90 pistons and need just one I have a partial set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilRufusKay Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I used to work on Contours when I was a Ford tech. One of he most problematic cars they ever built. DON'T DO IT. Your car can be fixed. The Ford could and probably would take a dive on you after you get it. That would be enough to put anybody over the edge!! Keep working at your car. I know it's easy to say from here but you will be much happier when you figure it out. You said you had new rings put in and you have lower compression in ALL cylinders now? Did you do the work your self? If so did you hone the cylinder walls? Did you seat the rings prior to running the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I'm with Clifton, if only because of the burning oil. I just blew a FlePro two days ago and it didn't burn any oil and didn't hit water either. Just lost compression. ScottyMizt has a picture of it. Scotty? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 zzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 here it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Wow, never seen a HG blow out the side. I'm running 22 psi on a FP HG with a head that's warped over .025" and it's held up fine. What was the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 *shrug* I really didn't think it had pinged enough to crack a piston but I guess I thought it was a possibility. Again, I'm not even really sure it pinged at all, I thought I heard something, but... the cars body squeaks and rattles and makes all kinds of noise especially if I get on it... so I wasn't sure what I heard, but I backed off of it IMMEDIATELY when I thought I heard it, and pulled over and reconnected the TPS. I'm not exactly sure what the 'ring land' is but I know I have read many times that they are one of the more common things to break under detonation, so I figured most likely rings or ring lands. Guys dont worry the Contour is definately out. I've already located a used motor... am gonna try to go have a look this week, bring a bellhousing and starter so I can do a compression test. No convenient way for me to leakdown test it though. I figure compression test, and having a look at the spark plugs, and pulling the valve cover and looking at rockers and cam lobes, should be a good indication of overall health of the engine. The guy has done a lot of business with my friend in the past so I feel he is most likely being honest about the less than 70k miles. It's an '83... I think that means it's gonna have the hydraulic head right? Anyways the guy wants $300, and I've already sold the turbo off of it for $100, and some other things I dont need for $150... so it's basically gonna be almost free, and I"m doing the labor myself this time... my friend letting me use his space and tools (finally I am lucking out!!!)... so no extra cost there so really all I'm gonna be out is like a day of my time. Then I'll decide what to do with the busted motor. Now... just more waiting... and waiting... and waiting... *sigh* just please let this be the LAST major thing to go wrong for a good long time!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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